New BMW Looks

[Vuestra Merced]

Came last week and it was exactly 6 years go that I picked up my US E46
( 2000, Euro Delivery ) . Have considered trading it in for an E90 in
the past. The deterrents have been the costs heading slightly upward -
it was a bargain in 2000 or so I thought, today it is less of what I
would call a bargain - and the turnoff factor of the new-Bangled look.

The price hike, although it is a bit much for the additional standard
features - can be justified to an extent - considering what other cars
are selling for these days.

But the looks.. I haven't been able to warm up to it. Gone are the days
of classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said that, I just
turned 30 ). Welcome to lexus-wannabe world. The over-dramatic grilles
and curved upward turn signals. Thank goodness the grille is still part
of the hood - at least on the E90.

Would I buy an E90 if it was my first bimmer? yeah sure. But I have
second thoughts about turning in a 2000 E46 ( pre pseudo agressiveness
era ). I can afford to keep both since my current car was paid off a
long time ago, but that is moot.

Curious to see what other readers think.

[dizzy]

Vuestra Merced wrote:

>Came last week and it was exactly 6 years go that I picked up my US E46
>( 2000, Euro Delivery ) . Have considered trading it in for an E90 in
>the past. The deterrents have been the costs heading slightly upward -
>it was a bargain in 2000 or so I thought, today it is less of what I
>would call a bargain - and the turnoff factor of the new-Bangled look.
>
>The price hike, although it is a bit much for the additional standard
>features - can be justified to an extent - considering what other cars
>are selling for these days.
>
>But the looks.. I haven't been able to warm up to it. Gone are the days
>of classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said that, I just
>turned 30 ). Welcome to lexus-wannabe world. The over-dramatic grilles
>and curved upward turn signals. Thank goodness the grille is still part
>of the hood - at least on the E90.

The E90 is not as good looking as the E46. It's okay.

Are you sure the grill is part of of the hood? I would have sworn
that it wasn't anymore (not that it matters).

>Would I buy an E90 if it was my first bimmer? yeah sure. But I have
>second thoughts about turning in a 2000 E46 ( pre pseudo agressiveness
>era ). I can afford to keep both since my current car was paid off a
>long time ago, but that is moot.
>
>Curious to see what other readers think.

Have you driven an E90? I have, and was hard-pressed to discern any
improvement over the E46.

[AGH!]

OK looks are really a matter or personal taste unless a car is genuinly
ugly (like the current 7 series for example!).
I like the looks as much (but not more) than the previous E46.

>Have you driven an E90? I have, and was hard-pressed to discern any
>improvement over the E46.
You're kidding right?
I own an E91 (E90 touring). Noticable improvement on directional
stability and handling, improved refinement. The E90 is a more
spacious car inside.

> Welcome to lexus-wannabe world
I think you will find it has always been a Lexus IS wannabe 3 series
situation, and it still has not caught up great car though the new IS
appears to be.

[David Haggas]

"Vuestra Merced" > wrote in message
...
> Came last week and it was exactly 6 years go that I picked up my US E46
> ( 2000, Euro Delivery ) . Have considered trading it in for an E90 in the
> past. The deterrents have been the costs heading slightly upward - it was
> a bargain in 2000 or so I thought, today it is less of what I would call a
> bargain - and the turnoff factor of the new-Bangled look.
>
> The price hike, although it is a bit much for the additional standard
> features - can be justified to an extent - considering what other cars are
> selling for these days.
>
> But the looks.. I haven't been able to warm up to it. Gone are the days of
> classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said that, I just
> turned 30 ). Welcome to lexus-wannabe world. The over-dramatic grilles and
> curved upward turn signals. Thank goodness the grille is still part of the
> hood - at least on the E90.
>
> Would I buy an E90 if it was my first bimmer? yeah sure. But I have second
> thoughts about turning in a 2000 E46 ( pre pseudo agressiveness era ). I
> can afford to keep both since my current car was paid off a long time ago,
> but that is moot.
>
> Curious to see what other readers think.

I am still an E30 owner - that car is just so right in so many respects.
Missed the E36 because I hated the styling - the dash was a real departure
from normal BMW standards. Thankfully redressed in the beautiful E46. So
looking for a 2003 model (before they Bangled the front end). Agree about
the E90 looks, but beginning to think I'm in the minority - they're
everywhere! The good news is that photos of the coupe and convertible show
an improvement.

[John Burns]

> Curious to see what other readers think.

Couldn't agree more. Currently running a E30 318iS and an E38 730i, much
nicer than anything they make now.

The proposed Z4 hard top coupe looks great from some angles, but it
still doesn't work as a whole.

My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
series :-)

--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: , John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html
www.Strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible price

[John Burns]

> I am still an E30 owner - that car is just so right in so many respects.
> Missed the E36 because I hated the styling -

I had two E30s then an E36 318iS. Kept it for nine years but the fiance
had it most of that time. Not as well built as the E30, the door handles
and trim all aged badly. Mechanically it was OK. Sold it and went back
to an E30!

--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: , John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html
www.Strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible price

[JB]

"John Burns" > wrote in message
...
> > Curious to see what other readers think.
>
> Couldn't agree more. Currently running a E30 318iS and an E38 730i, much
> nicer than anything they make now.

Agreed. In spades!

> The proposed Z4 hard top coupe looks great from some angles, but it
> still doesn't work as a whole.
>
> My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
> series :-)

- -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her SO's
635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of mechanical
art.

JB

[E28 Guy©]

JB wrote:
> "John Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
> > series :-)
>
> - -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her SO's
> 635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of mechanical
> art.

Which explains why my 'newest' BMW is an '88 535is. Anyone who's
interested can see it here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/578895

Same "work of mechanical art" as the E24 except for the body - that
doesn't rust as fast. ;^)
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; drove that)

[sunderland]

> the dash was a real departure from normal BMW standards

That's my biggest problem with the E90, the "luxury car" dash as
opposed to the classic 3-series "sports coupe" dash. I *want* a nice
convenient centre stack angled towards me.

> The E90 is a more spacious car inside.

Yes. Many of us consider that a BAD thing. If we wanted a bigger car
we'd buy a 5.

Personally I'm keeping my E46 and skipping the E90. Given the sales
figures for the past few months, and the hefty discounts available on
the E90, there are many others doing the same. Eventually I'll either
buy a 1 series, which is still a true BMW, or I'll (gasp) switch over
to Audi.

[Fred W]

Vuestra Merced wrote:
> Thank goodness the grille is still part
> of the hood - at least on the E90.

Still? That "feature" was introduced to the 3 series line with the E46.
E36es had grille attached to bumper and E30's had proper hoods opening
forward, so naturally the grille was not on the hood.


--
-Fred W

[AGH!]

> The E90 is a more spacious car inside.


> Yes. Many of us consider that a BAD thing. If we wanted a bigger car
> we'd buy a 5.

Spacious inside, but I don't think any bigger on the outside. I found
the E46 to be too small for me (6ft tall), banging my elbows on the
doors etc. while sat in the drivers seat. No real leg room in the back
so cannot carry adult passengers.
Problem with the 5 of coarse is that it is a more expensive car with
not quite such a sharp drive. The E46 made more sense as a coupe where
you don't care about passenger and luggage space.

> (gasp) switch over to Audi.
No comment!

[Fred W]

E28 Guy© wrote:
> JB wrote:
>
>>"John Burns" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
>>>series :-)
>>
>>- -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her SO's
>>635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of mechanical
>>art.
>
>
> Which explains why my 'newest' BMW is an '88 535is. Anyone who's
> interested can see it here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/578895
>
> Same "work of mechanical art" as the E24 except for the body - that
> doesn't rust as fast. ;^)
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; drove that)
>

I would kill for that 507.

--
-Fred W

[JB]

"Fred W" > wrote in message
...
> E28 Guy© wrote:
>> JB wrote:
>>
>>>"John Burns" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
>>>>series :-)
>>>
>>>- -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her
>>>SO's
>>>635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of
>>>mechanical
>>>art.
>>
>>
>> Which explains why my 'newest' BMW is an '88 535is. Anyone who's
>> interested can see it here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/578895
>>
>> Same "work of mechanical art" as the E24 except for the body - that
>> doesn't rust as fast. ;^)
>> --
>> C.R. Krieger
>> (Been there; drove that)
>>
>
> I would kill for that 507.
>
Indeed. That is one gorgeous motor. Rare over here too. I've never even seen
one of them 'in the flesh'.

JB

[Ulf]

E28 Guy© wrote:
> JB wrote:
>
>>"John Burns" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
>>>series :-)
>>
>>- -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her SO's
>>635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of mechanical
>>art.
>
>
> Which explains why my 'newest' BMW is an '88 535is. Anyone who's
> interested can see it here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/578895
>
> Same "work of mechanical art" as the E24 except for the body - that
> doesn't rust as fast. ;^)

Nah, IMO the E34 is the best looking BMW sedan. Sure, my '92 535 isn't
as good looking as my other car, but few cars are. With that said, I
might become the owner of a '88 E28 the weekend if everything goes as
planned. I need new snow tires and reading the car ads I found a guy
selling his BMW for $500 which supposedly has one year old studded
Hakkepelittas on it. After talking to him today I am sure I can get the
price down at least a hundred, maybe more, so then I'll practically get
the car for free with the tires. :-)

http://i1.tinypic.com/nfqr04.jpg

> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; drove that)
>
Ulf

[Jack Dotson]

"Vuestra Merced" > wrote in message
...
> Came last week and it was exactly 6 years go that I picked up my US E46
> ( 2000, Euro Delivery ) . Have considered trading it in for an E90 in the
> past. The deterrents have been the costs heading slightly upward - it was
> a bargain in 2000 or so I thought, today it is less of what I would call a
> bargain - and the turnoff factor of the new-Bangled look.
>
> The price hike, although it is a bit much for the additional standard
> features - can be justified to an extent - considering what other cars are
> selling for these days.
>
> But the looks.. I haven't been able to warm up to it. Gone are the days of
> classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said that, I just
> turned 30 ). Welcome to lexus-wannabe world. The over-dramatic grilles and
> curved upward turn signals. Thank goodness the grille is still part of the
> hood - at least on the E90.
>
> Would I buy an E90 if it was my first bimmer? yeah sure. But I have second
> thoughts about turning in a 2000 E46 ( pre pseudo agressiveness era ). I
> can afford to keep both since my current car was paid off a long time ago,
> but that is moot.
>
> Curious to see what other readers think.

Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of the E90
when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't believe I
didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror and
that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was with
the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.

Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.

[dizzy]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 01:08:41 -0800, AGH! wrote:

>>Have you driven an E90? I have, and was hard-pressed to discern any
>>improvement over the E46.
>
> You're kidding right?

Nope.

> I own an E91 (E90 touring). Noticable improvement on directional
> stability and handling, improved refinement.

I admit that I did notice a slightly heavier, less-lively feel... And an
exhaust note that was too quiet...

> The E90 is a more spacious car inside.

It's increased size is not an advantage, IMO.

[Tom K.]

"sunderland" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> the dash was a real departure from normal BMW standards
>
> That's my biggest problem with the E90, the "luxury car" dash as
> opposed to the classic 3-series "sports coupe" dash. I *want* a nice
> convenient centre stack angled towards me.
>
>> The E90 is a more spacious car inside.
>
> Yes. Many of us consider that a BAD thing. If we wanted a bigger car
> we'd buy a 5.
>
> Personally I'm keeping my E46 and skipping the E90. Given the sales
> figures for the past few months, and the hefty discounts available on
> the E90, there are many others doing the same. Eventually I'll either
> buy a 1 series, which is still a true BMW, or I'll (gasp) switch over
> to Audi.
>

Since the 1 series isn't available here in the US, I'll hold onto my E46 for
a decade or so until the 1 grows to the size of the E36. Then, they'll
import it and we can all wistfully look at the new "compact" 8/10 series.

Tom K.

[dizzy]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:

> Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of the E90
> when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't believe I
> didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror and
> that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was with
> the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.
>
> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.

In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?

[Jack Dotson]

"dizzy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:
>
>> Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of the
>> E90
>> when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't believe
>> I
>> didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror and
>> that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was
>> with
>> the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.
>>
>> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.
>
> In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?

Faster, handles better, more room in cabin and trunk, more comfortable, etc.

Start with the 3.0 engine in all models and go from there. The new 325i has
about as much power as old 330i and is about the size of the old 5 series.
But still handles like a 3, and better than the last generation.

Some may not like the dash lay out, but it works. Ergonomics are great, but
now there is good access for driver and passenger. If they sacrificed the
drivers accessibility I wouldn't like it, but the didn't.

I personally don't see how more interior space could ever be a problem,
especially when we're talking about a sedan, and considering it handles
better than the last model. Could that huge trunk be a bad thing? More leg
room for the passengers?

Looks are subjective, but the new 3's are flying off the lots. Why, because
they have managed to give the consumer the best of both worlds. Fun,
performance, convenience and comfort in the 3.

There are numerous reviews where the author compares the new to the old, a
quick search and you can easily find many comparisons. You will quickly see
that these are not only my observations, but every single review seems to
think the new 3's are much better as well.

It's a great car. You don't like the looks, I do. You don't like that they
made it bigger? Then there is always the new 1 series. Maybe this is why
they came out with the 1 at the same time?

Bravo BMW for making the best 3 ever!!

[dizzy]

Jack Dotson wrote:

>"dizzy" > wrote in message

>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:
>>>
>>> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.
>>
>> In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?
>
>Faster,

Barely. Not enough to notice.

>handles better,

Says who? I think it's more ponderous, and I don't like having to use
run-flats.

>more room in cabin and trunk,

What about the down-side of that increased size?

>more comfortable, etc.

Pfftt.. Bull**** it is.

>(snip subjective stuff on styling, etc.)

What's with that stupid "stick the thingy in the dash then press this
button" business, anyway? <sarcasm>That's a real
improvement.</sarcasm>

[dizzy]

AGH! wrote:

>> The E90 is a more spacious car inside.
>>
>> Yes. Many of us consider that a BAD thing. If we wanted a bigger car
>> we'd buy a 5.
>
>Spacious inside, but I don't think any bigger on the outside.

Well now, that sounds like a win-win to me!

Seriously, here's the facts:

Width: Up three inches 68.5 -> 71.5
Wheelbase: Up 1.4 inches 107.3 -> 108.7
Length: Up 2.2 inches 176 -> 178.2

[GLitwinski]

I agree completely. I have a 2003 zhp and try as I might, I just cannot warm
to the E90. Best I can manage is when looking at it from a distance it looks
OK, but them I focus on the details like the stupid "flame" line on the side
or the squashed bug look of the rear quarter or the awkward face and all
appeal disappears. I walk up to my red 2003 and it's always a pleasure to
look at it. With an E90 it would always be a shaking of the head getting
more and more pronounced the closer one comes.

My advice, pick up a last year E46 equipped just like you want and keep it
ten years. Eventually Bangle will be booted out and they will go back to
handsome styling. The Germans are stubborn and slow to admit a mistake, so
it will take a while. Just wait it out.

What a waste of good engineering.

- nopcbs


"Vuestra Merced" > wrote in message
...
> Came last week and it was exactly 6 years go that I picked up my US E46
> ( 2000, Euro Delivery ) . Have considered trading it in for an E90 in the
> past. The deterrents have been the costs heading slightly upward - it was
> a bargain in 2000 or so I thought, today it is less of what I would call a
> bargain - and the turnoff factor of the new-Bangled look.
>
> The price hike, although it is a bit much for the additional standard
> features - can be justified to an extent - considering what other cars are
> selling for these days.
>
> But the looks.. I haven't been able to warm up to it. Gone are the days of
> classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said that, I just
> turned 30 ). Welcome to lexus-wannabe world. The over-dramatic grilles and
> curved upward turn signals. Thank goodness the grille is still part of the
> hood - at least on the E90.
>
> Would I buy an E90 if it was my first bimmer? yeah sure. But I have second
> thoughts about turning in a 2000 E46 ( pre pseudo agressiveness era ). I
> can afford to keep both since my current car was paid off a long time ago,
> but that is moot.
>
> Curious to see what other readers think.

[GLitwinski]

It is not faster. Check the buff book numbers on the new 330i vs. the E46
zhp and the zhp was slightly faster. The extra horses must be very small
ponies indeed.



For that matter, the IS350 with auto leaves the 330i for dead in a straight
line,even with a manual.
"Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dizzy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:
>>
>>> Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of the
>>> E90
>>> when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't
>>> believe I
>>> didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror and
>>> that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was
>>> with
>>> the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.
>>>
>>> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.
>>
>> In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?
>
> Faster, handles better, more room in cabin and trunk, more comfortable,
> etc.
>
> Start with the 3.0 engine in all models and go from there. The new 325i
> has about as much power as old 330i and is about the size of the old 5
> series. But still handles like a 3, and better than the last generation.
>
> Some may not like the dash lay out, but it works. Ergonomics are great,
> but now there is good access for driver and passenger. If they sacrificed
> the drivers accessibility I wouldn't like it, but the didn't.
>
> I personally don't see how more interior space could ever be a problem,
> especially when we're talking about a sedan, and considering it handles
> better than the last model. Could that huge trunk be a bad thing? More
> leg room for the passengers?
>
> Looks are subjective, but the new 3's are flying off the lots. Why,
> because they have managed to give the consumer the best of both worlds.
> Fun, performance, convenience and comfort in the 3.
>
> There are numerous reviews where the author compares the new to the old, a
> quick search and you can easily find many comparisons. You will quickly
> see that these are not only my observations, but every single review seems
> to think the new 3's are much better as well.
>
> It's a great car. You don't like the looks, I do. You don't like that
> they made it bigger? Then there is always the new 1 series. Maybe this
> is why they came out with the 1 at the same time?
>
> Bravo BMW for making the best 3 ever!!
>
>

[David Haggas]

"GLitwinski" > wrote in message
...
> It is not faster. Check the buff book numbers on the new 330i vs. the E46
> zhp and the zhp was slightly faster. The extra horses must be very small
> ponies indeed.

Torque is the same even though efficiency and HP are up.

[John Carrier]

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:17:23 -0800, "GLitwinski"
> > wrote:
>
>>I agree completely. I have a 2003 zhp and try as I might, I just cannot
>>warm
>>to the E90. Best I can manage is when looking at it from a distance it
>>looks
>>OK, but them I focus on the details like the stupid "flame" line on the
>>side
>>or the squashed bug look of the rear quarter or the awkward face and all
>>appeal disappears. I walk up to my red 2003 and it's always a pleasure to
>>look at it. With an E90 it would always be a shaking of the head getting
>>more and more pronounced the closer one comes.
>>
>>My advice, pick up a last year E46 equipped just like you want and keep it
>>ten years. Eventually Bangle will be booted out and they will go back to
>>handsome styling. The Germans are stubborn and slow to admit a mistake, so
>>it will take a while. Just wait it out.
>>
>>What a waste of good engineering.
>
> I've got to agree. I drive an '02 E39. When it came time for my wife
> to get a new car, she just couldn't make herself like the E90. She's
> now got an '05 330Ci convertible with the performance package.
>
> That E46 puts any E90 to shame in the looks department. A pity.

OTOH, compared to EVERY BMW introduced over the last few years (Z-series, 7,
6, 5, the half-truck/half-touring SUV's) the E-90 isn't half bad. Scary the
when we talk of new BMW's that we remark, "Well, they didn't screw it up TOO
bad."

When the new 5er was ramping up for production and I had to replace my
totaled E39, I scoured the southeast to find an '03 530i SP 5sp. I managed
to secure one of three cars that met my desires. Maybe by the time I'm
ready to replace it, the Bangle era will have ended and we'll regain styling
and ergonomics that befit the ultimate sport sedan.

R / John

[GRL]

So is weight and cross-sectional area.
"David Haggas" > wrote in message
...
>
> "GLitwinski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is not faster. Check the buff book numbers on the new 330i vs. the E46
>> zhp and the zhp was slightly faster. The extra horses must be very small
>> ponies indeed.
>
> Torque is the same even though efficiency and HP are up.
>

[Jack Dotson]

"GLitwinski" > wrote in message
...
> It is not faster. Check the buff book numbers on the new 330i vs. the E46
> zhp and the zhp was slightly faster. The extra horses must be very small
> ponies indeed.
>

I beg to differ, do your research. I said the the new 325i was nearly as
fast as last years 330i, and it is. Not quite, but right there. 3.0L motor
vs the 2.5 to start with.

This is really a silly argument, if you guys like the older model and the
way it looks go for it. But to try and act as though it's somehow superior
to the new model is just not accurate. Even though the new model is bigger
it handles better. Not just my opinion, but virtually every reviewer (and
all have tested both) agree. Many say the G35 caught and surpassed the BMW3
until the new model came out, and now they are easily back in the lead.

Once again. More power, more space, more refined, just a better car IMO.
And, there must be many that agree with me, they are flying off the lots.

>
>
> For that matter, the IS350 with auto leaves the 330i for dead in a
> straight line,even with a manual.
> "Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "dizzy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of
>>>> the E90
>>>> when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't
>>>> believe I
>>>> didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror
>>>> and
>>>> that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was
>>>> with
>>>> the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.
>>>
>>> In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?
>>
>> Faster, handles better, more room in cabin and trunk, more comfortable,
>> etc.
>>
>> Start with the 3.0 engine in all models and go from there. The new 325i
>> has about as much power as old 330i and is about the size of the old 5
>> series. But still handles like a 3, and better than the last generation.
>>
>> Some may not like the dash lay out, but it works. Ergonomics are great,
>> but now there is good access for driver and passenger. If they
>> sacrificed the drivers accessibility I wouldn't like it, but the didn't.
>>
>> I personally don't see how more interior space could ever be a problem,
>> especially when we're talking about a sedan, and considering it handles
>> better than the last model. Could that huge trunk be a bad thing? More
>> leg room for the passengers?
>>
>> Looks are subjective, but the new 3's are flying off the lots. Why,
>> because they have managed to give the consumer the best of both worlds.
>> Fun, performance, convenience and comfort in the 3.
>>
>> There are numerous reviews where the author compares the new to the old,
>> a quick search and you can easily find many comparisons. You will
>> quickly see that these are not only my observations, but every single
>> review seems to think the new 3's are much better as well.
>>
>> It's a great car. You don't like the looks, I do. You don't like that
>> they made it bigger? Then there is always the new 1 series. Maybe this
>> is why they came out with the 1 at the same time?
>>
>> Bravo BMW for making the best 3 ever!!
>>
>>
>
>

[Jack Dotson]

"John Carrier" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:17:23 -0800, "GLitwinski"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I agree completely. I have a 2003 zhp and try as I might, I just cannot
>>>warm
>>>to the E90. Best I can manage is when looking at it from a distance it
>>>looks
>>>OK, but them I focus on the details like the stupid "flame" line on the
>>>side
>>>or the squashed bug look of the rear quarter or the awkward face and all
>>>appeal disappears. I walk up to my red 2003 and it's always a pleasure to
>>>look at it. With an E90 it would always be a shaking of the head getting
>>>more and more pronounced the closer one comes.
>>>
>>>My advice, pick up a last year E46 equipped just like you want and keep
>>>it
>>>ten years. Eventually Bangle will be booted out and they will go back to
>>>handsome styling. The Germans are stubborn and slow to admit a mistake,
>>>so
>>>it will take a while. Just wait it out.
>>>
>>>What a waste of good engineering.
>>
>> I've got to agree. I drive an '02 E39. When it came time for my wife
>> to get a new car, she just couldn't make herself like the E90. She's
>> now got an '05 330Ci convertible with the performance package.
>>
>> That E46 puts any E90 to shame in the looks department. A pity.
>
> OTOH, compared to EVERY BMW introduced over the last few years (Z-series,
> 7, 6, 5, the half-truck/half-touring SUV's) the E-90 isn't half bad.
> Scary the when we talk of new BMW's that we remark, "Well, they didn't
> screw it up TOO bad."
>
> When the new 5er was ramping up for production and I had to replace my
> totaled E39, I scoured the southeast to find an '03 530i SP 5sp. I
> managed to secure one of three cars that met my desires. Maybe by the
> time I'm ready to replace it, the Bangle era will have ended and we'll
> regain styling and ergonomics that befit the ultimate sport sedan.
>
> R / John

Already does. You guys like your old cars, cool, that's a good thing.
However, I can assure you there are many loyal E90 drivers on the road. I
say way to go BMW, the new 3 is absolutely awesome. Perfect and better in
almost every way, including the mean looking front end.

[John Carrier]

SNIP
>> When the new 5er was ramping up for production and I had to replace my
>> totaled E39, I scoured the southeast to find an '03 530i SP 5sp. I
>> managed to secure one of three cars that met my desires. Maybe by the
>> time I'm ready to replace it, the Bangle era will have ended and we'll
>> regain styling and ergonomics that befit the ultimate sport sedan.
>>
>> R / John
>
> Already does. You guys like your old cars, cool, that's a good thing.
> However, I can assure you there are many loyal E90 drivers on the road. I
> say way to go BMW, the new 3 is absolutely awesome. Perfect and better in
> almost every way, including the mean looking front end.

I've driven the E90 and rather like the looks. It's the first new bimmer I
would consider purchasing. But I so love the E39, the only real drivers
would be the more powerful engine (We'll hope the mag core block retains the
BMW six cylinder's bulletproof nature) and 6sp vice 5. I'd love to have
another 30 horses and an overdrive trans with a shorter rear end to add just
a bit of performance. I think BMW will take the new engine to 3.5 liters
eventually, if there's room between the bores.

R / John

[GRL]

I did do my research. I spend far too much time with my nose in car books. I
repeat, the E46 zhp 330i is quicker than the new (higher hp) 330i. It's just
reality. C&D got mid-5's out of a zhp. E90 330i's test out at 6 sec +/- a
tenth or two.

Handling I will not argue since I am not sure, but I would be surprised if a
zhp were not better than a E90 330i. But, I may be wrong. One of these days
I'll drop down at a BMW dealer, close my eyes while I climb into an E90 and
take it for a spin...just to see what there is to see. Also be interesting
to see if the downgrade of interior materials is as noticeable as at least
one reviewer has noted.

I don't know who the "many" you are talking about are, but it's not the car
buff reviewers and no BMW drivers I am aware of. Maybe Infiniti dealers? The
only time a G35 ever beat an E46 in a comparison test was if they had a
price limit and a 325 was up against a 330i. That's overall. The G35 always
beat the E46 3-series in acceleration...and still does with the E90 series.
The G35 is up around 300 hp now and close to M3 country in that regard. It's
in handling/fun to drive/styling (sedan)/and interior design that the BMW
was always better. I tested a G35 sedan when I was shopping and it was a
very nice sedan...almost as nice as an E46 as long as you were not serious
about the "sport" in sport sedan, but not quite there. Plus it was homely by
comparison. Thanks to Bangle the homely by comparison issue is not what it
was.

Glad you like the E90. I hope lots of others buy them, too so BMW can stay
profitable until Bangle disappears and a competent stylist replaces him. So
some day I can replace my E46 with a new 3-Series that does not make me
shake my head in disbelief when I look at it.

Cheers.

- GRL


"Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "GLitwinski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is not faster. Check the buff book numbers on the new 330i vs. the E46
>> zhp and the zhp was slightly faster. The extra horses must be very small
>> ponies indeed.
>>
>
> I beg to differ, do your research. I said the the new 325i was nearly as
> fast as last years 330i, and it is. Not quite, but right there. 3.0L
> motor vs the 2.5 to start with.
>
> This is really a silly argument, if you guys like the older model and the
> way it looks go for it. But to try and act as though it's somehow
> superior to the new model is just not accurate. Even though the new model
> is bigger it handles better. Not just my opinion, but virtually every
> reviewer (and all have tested both) agree. Many say the G35 caught and
> surpassed the BMW3 until the new model came out, and now they are easily
> back in the lead.
>
> Once again. More power, more space, more refined, just a better car IMO.
> And, there must be many that agree with me, they are flying off the lots.
>
>>
>>
>> For that matter, the IS350 with auto leaves the 330i for dead in a
>> straight line,even with a manual.
>> "Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "dizzy" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:20:36 +0000, Jack Dotson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Guess it depends on what you like. I didn't really like the look of
>>>>> the E90
>>>>> when I first saw it, but it started to wear on me and now I can't
>>>>> believe I
>>>>> didn't like it from the start. Look at one in your rear view mirror
>>>>> and
>>>>> that front end looks awesome. The only problem I ever really had was
>>>>> with
>>>>> the back and I still think they could have done better, but it fits.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention the E90 is a much better car all the way around.
>>>>
>>>> In what ways, exactly, is it "much better"?
>>>
>>> Faster, handles better, more room in cabin and trunk, more comfortable,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Start with the 3.0 engine in all models and go from there. The new 325i
>>> has about as much power as old 330i and is about the size of the old 5
>>> series. But still handles like a 3, and better than the last generation.
>>>
>>> Some may not like the dash lay out, but it works. Ergonomics are great,
>>> but now there is good access for driver and passenger. If they
>>> sacrificed the drivers accessibility I wouldn't like it, but the didn't.
>>>
>>> I personally don't see how more interior space could ever be a problem,
>>> especially when we're talking about a sedan, and considering it handles
>>> better than the last model. Could that huge trunk be a bad thing? More
>>> leg room for the passengers?
>>>
>>> Looks are subjective, but the new 3's are flying off the lots. Why,
>>> because they have managed to give the consumer the best of both worlds.
>>> Fun, performance, convenience and comfort in the 3.
>>>
>>> There are numerous reviews where the author compares the new to the old,
>>> a quick search and you can easily find many comparisons. You will
>>> quickly see that these are not only my observations, but every single
>>> review seems to think the new 3's are much better as well.
>>>
>>> It's a great car. You don't like the looks, I do. You don't like that
>>> they made it bigger? Then there is always the new 1 series. Maybe this
>>> is why they came out with the 1 at the same time?
>>>
>>> Bravo BMW for making the best 3 ever!!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[David Haggas]

> wrote in message
...
>>When the new 5er was ramping up for production and I had to replace my
>>totaled E39, I scoured the southeast to find an '03 530i SP 5sp. I
>>managed
>>to secure one of three cars that met my desires. Maybe by the time I'm
>>ready to replace it, the Bangle era will have ended and we'll regain
>>styling
>>and ergonomics that befit the ultimate sport sedan.
>
> We can only hope. My future holds an M3. I shudder to think of it
> being an E90, and low-mileage E46's may be more scarce by then.

Thankfully for some reason the E46 M3 has not been subjected to the front
end treatment of the rest of the range got in 2003. I think they really
spoilt the elegance of the car.

[David Haggas]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:47:45 +0000 (UTC), "David Haggas"
> > wrote:
>
>>> We can only hope. My future holds an M3. I shudder to think of it
>>> being an E90, and low-mileage E46's may be more scarce by then.
>>
>>Thankfully for some reason the E46 M3 has not been subjected to the front
>>end treatment of the rest of the range got in 2003. I think they really
>>spoilt the elegance of the car.
>
> The E46 with the Performance Package has the same front end as the M3.
>
> Thankfully.

Presumably equivalent to our "sport" in the UK. Here, unfortunately, it has
the same front as the lesser models. Only M3's are as original.

[E Brown]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:55:44 +0000 (UTC), "David Haggas"
> wrote:
>> The E46 with the Performance Package has the same front end as the M3.
>>
>> Thankfully.
>
>Presumably equivalent to our "sport" in the UK. Here, unfortunately, it has
>the same front as the lesser models. Only M3's are as original.
>
It's the same in the US - I don't know what the other poster is
talking about.
epbrown
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

[Frank Kemper]

Vuestra Merced > haute in die Tasten:

> Gone are the days
> of classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said
> that, I just turned 30 ).

IMHO these days ended with the introduction of the E46. IMHO this car
simply looks fat.

Frank (BMW E30 Convertible)

--
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Citroen - Made in Trance

[Frank Kemper]

"AGH!" > haute in die Tasten:

>> Welcome to lexus-wannabe world
> I think you will find it has always been a Lexus IS wannabe 3
> series situation, and it still has not caught up great car
> though the new IS appears to be.
>

Over here the new Lexus IS 250 currently runs through the car mags.
The car is losing every comparison test. Main disadvantages: Too weak
engine, too much fuel consumption, over-nervous and harsh suspension.

IMHO the fact that there is a japanese brannd called Lexus, which has
a weak reputation amongst true BMW drivers, does not have to mean
that it is suitable to call each new BMW a Lexus.

Frank

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[Frank Kemper]

haute in die Tasten:

> That E46 puts any E90 to shame in the looks department. A pity.
>

Seems a little bit unfair to me: comparing the looks of a convertible
with performance pack to a sedan without;-) IMHO the 2 door coupé is
the most beautiful E60 (nevertheless it looks to fat).

Frank

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[John Carrier]

"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
...
> haute in die Tasten:
>
>> That E46 puts any E90 to shame in the looks department. A pity.
>>
>
> Seems a little bit unfair to me: comparing the looks of a convertible
> with performance pack to a sedan without;-) IMHO the 2 door coupé is
> the most beautiful E60 (nevertheless it looks to fat).
>
> Frank

The E60 is the 5th gen 5 series. It's ugly, but there's no coupe.

R / John

[Raybender]

Frank Kemper wrote:

> Vuestra Merced > haute in die Tasten:
>
> > Gone are the days
> > of classic athlete-in-suit bimmers ( I can't believe I said
> > that, I just turned 30 ).
>
> IMHO these days ended with the introduction of the E46. IMHO this car
> simply looks fat.
>
> Frank (BMW E30 Convertible)

I've always thought this too. It's the visual effect from the way the
rear fenders curve in at the back. Much prefer the more 'squared off'
effect on the E36.

Now with the new E60 and E90, it's the 'turned up at the corners'
headlights and taillights - looks as if the cars were "frightened by
something'

Another Frank

[paul.ladd3@verizon.net]

I'm hard pressed to find any of the new BMWs more stylish and classic
than my 1980 633. I agree on the "work of mechanical art" comment and
would disagree on the rust, although after 25 years and 220K, some is
starting to emerge. How may of the new computerized cars will be on
the road, still cared for by their drivers after 25 years? Now the Z8
on the other hand.......

Paul

E28 Guy© wrote:
> JB wrote:
> > "John Burns" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > My next car will be a six series, and I don't mean the current six
> > > series :-)
> >
> > - -Is the correct answer! The receptionist here at work is using her SO's
> > 635CSi Highline at the moment. It is and always will be a work of mechanical
> > art.
>
> Which explains why my 'newest' BMW is an '88 535is. Anyone who's
> interested can see it here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/578895
>
> Same "work of mechanical art" as the E24 except for the body - that
> doesn't rust as fast. ;^)
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; drove that)

[Frank Kemper]

" > haute in die
Tasten:

> I'm hard pressed to find any of the new BMWs more stylish and
> classic than my 1980 633.

First of all: It is completely normal that people tend to like the
cars they own.;-)

Second point: To look "classic", a car has to reach a certain age.
The current BMW 645i does not look classic, it simply looks new. The
Z8 was an example of a car which was intended to look classic right
from the assembly line. To me it looks somewhat retro. Nevertheless
I'd chose a Z8 over a 633, if someone gave me one for free.

Frank

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