VW Bug 1600cc Gas to Propane Conversion Kit
 

Hello, recently searching the net I read of this conversion. People are
using LP Propane Gase to power engines with just a simple converter and
some inexpensive jets. I seen the carb jets for other model cars, the
converter too for all less than $100. Anyone have any good info on how
to easily do this conversion, or where to purchase the parts. I am
interested in the carb jets, or an allready modified carb. Thanks

Please email me all responses to

Where are you going to put a tank in a bug big enough to go 200+ miles?
Sure, if you live on an island like Great Britain you can have a small tank, 5 or 10 gallons. But
even that takes the place of a passenger.
The power output of propane compared to gasoline is only around 70%.
The distance between propane sources in the US is greater than the tank you can put in.
A gallon of propane costs at least 50 cents more than a gallon of gas.
As an example, a 350 Chev V8 with a 2 barrel carb gets 14 miles to the gallon. The same Chev P/U
with a factory installed propane setup gets 9-9,5 miles to the gallon. And the 50 gallon tank is
MASSIVE. When regular was 2.30 a gallon in Bakersfield Calif, we paid 2.85 a gallon for propane. We
filled an empty-on-fumes 50 gallong tank and it only holds 45 gallons because of the expansion
zone.....

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello, recently searching the net I read of this conversion. People are
> using LP Propane Gase to power engines with just a simple converter and
> some inexpensive jets. I seen the carb jets for other model cars, the
> converter too for all less than $100. Anyone have any good info on how
> to easily do this conversion, or where to purchase the parts. I am
> interested in the carb jets, or an allready modified carb. Thanks
>
> Please email me all responses to
>

Back in the 70's during the great gas crisis (weren't we supposed to be
out of gas by now?) our city converted all government vehicles over to
LP including police cars. I worked in an auto parts house then. We paid
off a lot bills and had some great bonuses on the engine parts we sold
even at heavily discounted prices to the city. Seems the propane eats
at the engine for some reason. I really don't remember the
explaination. And the police cars couldn't catch a kid on a trycycle
much less someone trying to run.

As I recall, when they tore the engines down, they were very clean,
just worn out.

But I see a lot of industrial equipment, forklifts ect. that run on LP
and run forever on it. Anybody got an explaination either way?

I'm with the first response, where would you put the tank and the
difference in price today doesn't seem to make up for the trouble.

<><
TC

Propane (LPG) has been around for some time and the tanks aren't
that huge. It's CNG - Compressed Natural Gas that need tanks the
size of a hot water heater and only get half the range of a regular vehicle.
They also need an on-site compressor and hours to refill.

Raymond T. Lowe
--
E-mail=fullname-at-telus.net

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Back in the 70's during the great gas crisis (weren't we supposed to be
> out of gas by now?) our city converted all government vehicles over to
> LP including police cars. I worked in an auto parts house then. We paid
> off a lot bills and had some great bonuses on the engine parts we sold
> even at heavily discounted prices to the city. Seems the propane eats
> at the engine for some reason. I really don't remember the
> explaination. And the police cars couldn't catch a kid on a trycycle
> much less someone trying to run.
>
> As I recall, when they tore the engines down, they were very clean,
> just worn out.
>
> But I see a lot of industrial equipment, forklifts ect. that run on LP
> and run forever on it. Anybody got an explaination either way?
>
> I'm with the first response, where would you put the tank and the
> difference in price today doesn't seem to make up for the trouble.
>
> <><
> TC
>

In the "70" I ran a motorhome for a while on a dual- fuel set up
(gas/propane). This set up used gas for the main fuel but after it was
warmed up you could turn the gas off and propane valve on while the
engine was running fro the drivers seat. The propane delivery system
was a nozzle plate mounted over the gas carb or maybe it was under, I
don't remember right now but I think it was on top. It worked great but
the power loss was noticed. The idea was if gasoline was in short
supply, you could run on propane. The industry felt since oil would be
gone in 40 years, we needed to keep our vehicles going until we had the
time to change to agriculture alcohol production fuels by 2010 so we
were not at the mercy of the saudis. We only got 5 years left, right?

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=30209382&vt=vp">Den's
1977 Puma</a>

I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
have room for your passengers.

You can get tanks that fit in place of the spare wheel, but I guess
that would only be suitable for the 1302/1303 Super Beetles. Plus I
would not like to think what would happen in a serious front-end
accident.

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)

"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
...
>
> You can get tanks that fit in place of the spare wheel, but I guess
> that would only be suitable for the 1302/1303 Super Beetles. Plus I
> would not like to think what would happen in a serious front-end
> accident.
>
>

..............A ruptured tank of gasoline is as potentially lethal to a
vehicle's occupant as any other type of fuel. Maybe even more so. Because a
gasoline tank has air which contains oxygen displacing the fuel inside the
tank, it has the capacity to go off like bomb. LP and CNG tanks don't have
any air inside them as they are filled in a way that completely displaces
the air that's needed to support combustion. Gasoline fires are very hot and
can't be approached by anyone who isn't protected by a complete firefighting
suit that includes a respirator. Ask any firefighter who has tried to rescue
someone in burning car where the tank is or is possibly about to ignite
after rupturing in an accident.

"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
...
>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
> have room for your passengers.

Pull a trailer of tanks.

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
...

> [...] Ask any firefighter who has tried to rescue
> someone in burning car where the tank is or is possibly about to ignite
> after rupturing in an accident.

Ask any firefighter if he's _ever_ seen a gas tank explode due to a burning
automobile - for example, when the interior is on fire, or much more
typically when the tires under the engine are on fire - the later is very
common and nasty. A ruptured tank is another story, but fairly rare. In my
years on the flightline and in the field, I've never seen an automobile or
truck's tank explode.

"jjs" > wrote in message
...
> "Tim Rogers" > wrote in message

> Ask any firefighter if he's _ever_ seen a gas tank explode due to a
burning
> automobile - for example, when the interior is on fire, or much more
> typically when the tires under the engine are on fire - the later is very
> common and nasty. A ruptured tank is another story, but fairly rare. In
my
> years on the flightline and in the field, I've never seen an automobile or
> truck's tank explode.
>
>

unfortunately i agree with JJS....typically(but not always) if a car is
burning it will burn through the filler neck or burn out a fuel line and it
just lets the gasoline feed the fire...but *usually* no big boom.....i did
however see a chevy truck's tank explode when it was "t-boned".....not a
real pretty site...

jjs wrote:
>
> "Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > [...] Ask any firefighter who has tried to rescue
> > someone in burning car where the tank is or is possibly about to ignite
> > after rupturing in an accident.
>
> Ask any firefighter if he's _ever_ seen a gas tank explode due to a burning
> automobile - for example, when the interior is on fire, or much more
> typically when the tires under the engine are on fire - the later is very
> common and nasty. A ruptured tank is another story, but fairly rare. In my
> years on the flightline and in the field, I've never seen an automobile or
> truck's tank explode.

It could, if it was mostly empty. It's the fumes that explode, gasoline
alone won't.
Gasoline doesn't even burn. :)

You can weld a patch in the bottom of a full gas tank without blowing it
up or setting it on fire.
(I don't recommend it though).


For gasoline fumes to ignite and explode, the air/fuel ratio needs to be
within certain limits, too.

Jan

"Jan Andersson" > wrote in message
...
>
> For gasoline fumes to ignite and explode, the air/fuel ratio needs to be
> within certain limits, too.
>
>

..................I personally know of instances where the gas tank literally
exploded. Those of you who haven't suffered from memory loss yet, can
probably figure out what I'm referring in one incident in my family's recent
history. I also have two brothers who are firefighters and they've both
experienced this type of situation 'up close and personal'. End of
arguement.

"Jan Andersson" > wrote in message
...

> It could, if it was mostly empty. It's the fumes that explode, gasoline
> alone won't.
> Gasoline doesn't even burn. :)

Never seen it happen.

> For gasoline fumes to ignite and explode, the air/fuel ratio needs to be
> within certain limits, too.

I sure won't say that gasoline isn't dangerous. There's a reason it is
classified (in the USA) as an explosive, while nitro-based gunpowder is just
'flammable'. I was in a gas explosion - a real boom and ball of fire. This
was a case of spilled gasoline, and a saturated source that fed it. The
fumes must have run across the ground then ignited behind me. I was well
away from the source but the fire ball burned my hair and eyebrows. It went
away as quickly as it happened and I continued towards the source. Someone
was closer and unlucky.

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> .................I personally know of instances where the gas tank
> literally
> exploded. Those of you who haven't suffered from memory loss yet, can
> probably figure out what I'm referring in one incident in my family's
> recent
> history. I also have two brothers who are firefighters and they've both
> experienced this type of situation 'up close and personal'. End of
> arguement.

Sorry for your bad experiences, but they are very rare. Cite the exact
circumstances of the firefighters and you are likely to find a ruptured
tank. That's a different case.

My memory is just fine, thank you.

To follow up on Tim's specific remark. There are exacerbating flaws in some
modern vehicles that did cause some horrible fires - one due to ruptured
fuel tanks and another caused by a flawed cap release over an unvented tank.

We had a fire here last year from a ruptured tank under otherwise benign
circumstances. It was gutwrenching horror. Everyone died. Fast. 10 gallons
of fuel dispersed suddenly and blew up. The fire was up and over before the
first responders got there.

My deepest sympathies to all who know of such victims.

"jjs" > wrote in message
...
>
> Sorry for your bad experiences, but they are very rare. Cite the exact
> circumstances of the firefighters and you are likely to find a ruptured
> tank. That's a different case.
>
>

..............Rupturing is precisely what precedes the ignition of the
mixture of air and gasoline fumes INSIDE the tank. What immmediately follows
is often called an explosion. Whatever it is, it can rip apart the vehicle.
I've seen and heard enough about this to know that it isn't rare at all if
you're a firefighter or work in a hospital.

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> .............Rupturing is precisely what precedes the ignition of the
> mixture of air and gasoline fumes INSIDE the tank. What immmediately
> follows
> is often called an explosion. Whatever it is, it can rip apart the
> vehicle.
> I've seen and heard enough about this to know that it isn't rare at all if
> you're a firefighter or work in a hospital.

I was a medic in-service for four years active. I doubt you've seen
something I haven't, unless it's a recent thing induced by technology that
didn't exist between '64 and '68. (And do y'all really have mortar attacks
in Boston?)

"jjs" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was a medic in-service for four years active. I doubt you've seen
> something I haven't, unless it's a recent thing induced by technology that
> didn't exist between '64 and '68. (And do y'all really have mortar attacks
> in Boston?)
>
>

.............Try to remember what would happen when a VC mortar shell made a
direct hit on a vessel in a gasoline tank farm.

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> "jjs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I was a medic in-service for four years active. I doubt you've seen
>> something I haven't, unless it's a recent thing induced by technology
>> that
>> didn't exist between '64 and '68. (And do y'all really have mortar
>> attacks
>> in Boston?)
> ............Try to remember what would happen when a VC mortar shell made
> a
> direct hit on a vessel in a gasoline tank farm.

My memory is good. Besides, most of the clustered drums were diesel fuel.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:26:12 -0500, "jjs" >
wrote:

>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
.. .
>>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
>> have room for your passengers.
>
>Pull a trailer of tanks.

Or do as they did in WWII and have a big bag of gas on the roofrack!
--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:33:44 GMT, "Tim Rogers" >
wrote:

>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> You can get tanks that fit in place of the spare wheel, but I guess
>> that would only be suitable for the 1302/1303 Super Beetles. Plus I
>> would not like to think what would happen in a serious front-end
>> accident.
>>
>>
>
>.............A ruptured tank of gasoline is as potentially lethal to a
>vehicle's occupant as any other type of fuel. Maybe even more so. Because a
>gasoline tank has air which contains oxygen displacing the fuel inside the
>tank, it has the capacity to go off like bomb.

fair enough!! I didn't really think of that...

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)

"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:26:12 -0500, "jjs" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
> >> have room for your passengers.
> >
> >Pull a trailer of tanks.
>
> Or do as they did in WWII and have a big bag of gas on the roofrack!
> --
> Howard Rose
> 1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
> 1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
> 1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
> http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)

Visions of Dads Army episode.....!

James

Thanks tothe prompt about WWII,I am wondering about the VWs of that era that
burned coal(fumes or dust or oil?,can't remember)Anyone have a good site
same?Thanke
"Juper Wort" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Howard Rose" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:26:12 -0500, "jjs" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> >>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
>> >> have room for your passengers.
>> >
>> >Pull a trailer of tanks.
>>
>> Or do as they did in WWII and have a big bag of gas on the roofrack!
>> --
>> Howard Rose
>> 1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
>> 1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
>> 1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
>> http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)
>
> Visions of Dads Army episode.....!
>
> James
>
>
>

I scanned this article on "Alternater fuel beetles" off VW Trends
several years ago :

http://www.geocities.com/janbugger/altern.html

Jan

ilambert wrote:
> Thanks tothe prompt about WWII,I am wondering about the VWs of that era that
> burned coal(fumes or dust or oil?,can't remember)Anyone have a good site
> same?Thanke
> "Juper Wort" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:26:12 -0500, "jjs" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>
>>>>>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
>>>>>have room for your passengers.
>>>>
>>>>Pull a trailer of tanks.
>>>
>>>Or do as they did in WWII and have a big bag of gas on the roofrack!
>>>--
>>>Howard Rose
>>>1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
>>>1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
>>>1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
>>>http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)
>>
>>Visions of Dads Army episode.....!
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Cool site,Jan.Thanks
"Jan" > wrote in message
...
>
> I scanned this article on "Alternater fuel beetles" off VW Trends several
> years ago :
>
> http://www.geocities.com/janbugger/altern.html
>
> Jan
>
> ilambert wrote:
>> Thanks tothe prompt about WWII,I am wondering about the VWs of that era
>> that burned coal(fumes or dust or oil?,can't remember)Anyone have a good
>> site same?Thanke
>> "Juper Wort" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:26:12 -0500, "jjs" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Howard Rose" > wrote in message
om...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am not sure where you would put the extra tank in a Beetle and still
>>>>>>have room for your passengers.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pull a trailer of tanks.
>>>>
>>>>Or do as they did in WWII and have a big bag of gas on the roofrack!
>>>>--
>>>>Howard Rose
>>>>1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
>>>>1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
>>>>1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
>>>>http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)
>>>
>>>Visions of Dads Army episode.....!
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>