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-   -   Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools? (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=439982)

Mrcheerful February 18th 18 09:24 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 19:49, BurfordTJustice wrote:
> Really it is not needed in the UK cause of those little **** ant cans you
> blokes call cars.
>
> Real men all left the UK to a land where they could get a real car or
> truck..


we sent a lot of dross to the USA

Mrcheerful February 18th 18 09:26 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 19:46, BurfordTJustice wrote:
> No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.
>


That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 09:37 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
>> can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
>> if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
>>

>
> no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
> mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
> move.


That makes too much sense for Usenet! :)

I guess there are two faults with a 20" extension bar that a 2" extenstion
bar wouldh't have then.

1. Some of the measured torque is wasted in twisting the bar, and,
2. Any extension bar not at 90 degrees to the nut also changes the torque.

Both effects are probably slight - but perhaps measurable?

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 09:44 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> Much better to
> discard it and get something with a longer handle
> https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr


That "teloscopic torque wrench" was a new tool to my eyes!
(Too bad it doesn't take a socket because it's 17/19 & while I need 21mm).

It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
when you can change the distance along the lever!

>> Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
>> only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
>> bar and their hands?
>>

>
> But don't most people jump on it using their whole body weight ? :)


Truth be told, I've used my appreciable body weight for /removing/ lug
bolts ... but never for tightening them.

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 09:49 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

>>> You can always
>>> rotate the socket 1/4 turn on the 1/2" drive to get 12th of a turn when
>>> space to swing the bar is tight.

>>
>> I never thought of that!
>> The math confused me so may I reiterate what I "think" you just said?
>>
>> Am I correct in assuming you're saying that you can rotate a 12-point
>> socket by 1/12th, while you can only rotate a 6-point socket by 1/6th ---
>> but ... if you cleverly rotate /both/ the 6-point socket by 1/6th and the
>> half-inch socket wrench end of the socket by 1/4, you get the same effect?
>>

>
> yes, but it is so rarely needed it is not worth worrying about


It's still nice to know that you can get the same angle effect out of a six
point socket that you can out of a 12-point socket, simply by rotating the
4-point extension bar location.

Personally, my tools just "grew" over time, where I have some 12 points and
some 6 points where some are normal sockets, deep sockets, and impact
sockets, where I wish I had known what I'm learning in this thread in the
beginning.

Seems to me that the /first/ set anyone should get are normal length & deep
six-point sockets (both metric & SAE).

The metric & SAE 12-point sets should come next, I would think.

Mrcheerful February 18th 18 09:52 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 20:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
>>> can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
>>> if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
>>>

>>
>> no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
>> mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
>> move.

>
> That makes too much sense for Usenet! :)
>
> I guess there are two faults with a 20" extension bar that a 2" extenstion
> bar wouldh't have then.
>
> 1. Some of the measured torque is wasted in twisting the bar, and,
> 2. Any extension bar not at 90 degrees to the nut also changes the torque.
>
> Both effects are probably slight - but perhaps measurable?
>


certainly, but there is no need for such precision in this application.

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 10:09 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> better to leave the tyres alone, rotating the position of tyres went out
> of fashion about 60 years ago.


I realize all the responses (so far) to this post were trolls or jokes, but
if you were actually serious, please do read my explanation below of what I
feel is the inherent value in rotating tires periodically.

In my case, the suspension is aligned (caster, camber, and toe anyway), and
tires are selected, mounted, and balanced (statically), and pressurized,
and repaired (from the inside with a patchplug), and rotated by me, so
everything about those tires is up to me, and not to a mechanic who is paid
by the hour who might skip some of the steps that I do (see below) to save
time.

Of course, I can only meticulously statically balance the wheel-and-tire
assembly, but the dynamic-balance test of driving at speeds shows no
dynamic imbalance that can be felt by the driver.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Given the well-aligned vehicle is driven daily on mountainous hilly steep
very windy roads, including a mandatory K-turn daily, the fronts inevitably
develop a unidirectional feathering that can be barely felt by the hand
which is palpable consistently at around 4K miles.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/attac...828_100512.jpg

Since the spare is a different brand, I rotate in the classic four-wheel
II->X->II->X pattern that puts each tire at each of the four corners over a
period of 12K miles (about 8 to 10 months of driving) - and - when I rotate
- I inspect the entire carcass for pebbles & shards as shown here from this
weekend.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter1.jpg

To overcome some of the boredom of plucking detritus out of the tread, I
count the objects removed, where there are always more than 50 per tire, so
I try to approach a count of 100 objects removed, some of which turn out to
be this (staple?) shard I found yesterday.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

While you intimate that the periodic inspection and rotation of tires has
"gone out of style", my reasonably logical position is that the selection,
mounting, balancing, pressurizing, inspection, repair, and rotation of
tires is a reasonable and rational act that results in increased safety and
life of the tires - partly because removing something like this shard never
goes out of style!
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 10:17 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

>> No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.
>>

>
> That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.


I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and inspecting
tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles simply because fronts
wear differently than rears, and crowns affect wear and alignment setup per
side.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg

Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their static
balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards
from the carcass.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg

With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America, I'd
wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what 'mericans
prefer overall.

alan_m February 18th 18 10:21 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 20:44, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Much better to
>> discard it and get something with a longer handle
>> https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr

>
> That "teloscopic torque wrench" was a new tool to my eyes!
> (Too bad it doesn't take a socket because it's 17/19 & while I need 21mm).


These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.

It's not a torque wrench - its just a wrench with a telescopic handle
that is at least twice as long as that which normally comes with the car
kit. It gives you much more leverage when trying to free the nut. It's
the same principle of adding a scaffolding over over an existing wrench
bar to make it longer.

> It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
> when you can change the distance along the lever!


It you added an extension tube to the end of a normal click type torque
wrench to make the handle twice as long and you applied your pressure to
the end this extension wouldn't the torque wrench still click at the
correct torque?




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Dean Hoffman[_5_] February 18th 18 10:28 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 2/18/18 3:17 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America,
> I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what
> 'mericans prefer overall. b

The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini. There are
lots of cars with Japanese badges around. Some of those are built
in the US though. Supposedly US vehicles might be built in Canada
or Mexico.



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