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-   -   Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools? (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=439982)

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 01:48 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
km).

First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
If so, why?

Third question is related to this combination pictu
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
Where this question is a combination question of:
a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?
b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
shown?
c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
it.)
And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
bar?

Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
each of the front tires.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg

That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg

The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
each tire rotation)?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg

In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).


Clare Snyder February 18th 18 02:43 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:48:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> wrote:

>Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
>whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
>km).
>
>First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.


The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
fine motion is required.
>
>Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg


Yes, they are there from the factory.
>I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
>make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
>If so, why?
>
>Third question is related to this combination pictu
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg


>Where this question is a combination question of:
>a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?


To make it fit in the jack bag
>b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
>bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
>shown?


The Micrometer adjusting "click" is easier to use.
>c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
>removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
>it.)

A "speed handle" is very handy for spinning nuts on and off after
breaking them loose and before torquing. I still use mine a lot. - not
just for wheel nuts,
>And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
>d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
>bar?


No.
>
>Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
>the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
>4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
>each of the front tires.
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg
>
>That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
>was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg


Looks like a small staple.
>
>The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
>always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
>of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
>out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
>each tire rotation)?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg
>
>In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
>better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).



You are best to rotate only front to back on MOST vehicles -and MUST
do so with "directional" tires.

In over 40 years Ihave NEVER done side to side rotations. (and I'm a
mechanic)

Dean Hoffman[_5_] February 18th 18 02:49 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 2/17/18 6:48 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
> km).


Four thousand miles? Why so often? Is that what the owner's
manual
recommends?

Ed Pawlowski February 18th 18 03:40 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 2/17/2018 8:43 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

>
>
> You are best to rotate only front to back on MOST vehicles -and MUST
> do so with "directional" tires.
>
> In over 40 years Ihave NEVER done side to side rotations. (and I'm a
> mechanic)
>


I knowof people that have done side to side on car with different size
front and back, but it seems about useless.

I also rotate with oil changes at 7500. IMO, 4000 is a bit too soon but
if you have the time and engergy . . .

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 07:39 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> Four thousand miles? Why so often? Is that what the owner's
> manual recommends?


There is no doubt that 4K miles is the correct number because the alignment
is correct and the front tires get a palpable feathering on the outside
edges after about 4K miles.

It's been reliable, as this is the fourth rotation of these tires, and the
same thing happens every single time, where I've actually been doing it not
by mileage but by the feeling of the tires - but when I write down the
miles, it's just about every 4K miles.

The roads are very windy for miles at below 20 mph and very steep.

Peter Hill[_2_] February 18th 18 10:35 AM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18-Feb-18 12:48 AM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
> km).
>
> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.


The impact socket has a radius at the points to remove the stress
concentration that would split the socket when used with impact tools.
It also contacts the nut on the strong flank and not the weak point.

A full hex is better than a 12 point for nearly all uses. You can always
rotate the socket 1/4 turn on the 1/2" drive to get 12th of a turn when
space to swing the bar is tight.

Fredxx February 18th 18 01:37 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 01:43, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:48:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> > wrote:
>
>> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
>> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
>> km).
>>
>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>
> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
> fine motion is required.
>>
>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg

>
> Yes, they are there from the factory.


Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 05:49 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> Lacking an actual torque wrench, be sure to use equal pressure on all
> the nuts. I use a two step process. First, tighten them to just snug
> using a cross pattern. Then go back and tighten each one as evenly as
> you can feel to tight, but don't kill them. Hard to decribe but you
> don't want to stand on the wrench to get them very tight.


The only way I know to "test" (but not "calibrate") a torque wrench is to
have a double-headed bolt contraption that is long enough for two sockets
to fit face to face.

Then I would put a torque wrench on each end, and lock one in a vise and
twist the other where they should both show the same torque.

That only "tests" them.
I don't know how to calibrate them because both could be wrong.
And you have to "adjust" them if they are.

Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 05:57 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>
> The impact socket has a radius at the points to remove the stress
> concentration that would split the socket when used with impact tools.
> It also contacts the nut on the strong flank and not the weak point.


That makes sense! So the rounded corners take the 'stress' off the nut and
the rounded corner also takes the stress off from the potential for a
hairline crack of the socket wall?

> A full hex is better than a 12 point for nearly all uses.


I was wondering if a 12-point is "weaker" than a 6 point?
Is at 6 point stronger, weaker, or the same stress on a nut/socket as a 12
point?

> You can always
> rotate the socket 1/4 turn on the 1/2" drive to get 12th of a turn when
> space to swing the bar is tight.


I never thought of that!
The math confused me so may I reiterate what I "think" you just said?

Am I correct in assuming you're saying that you can rotate a 12-point
socket by 1/12th, while you can only rotate a 6-point socket by 1/6th ---
but ... if you cleverly rotate /both/ the 6-point socket by 1/6th and the
half-inch socket wrench end of the socket by 1/4, you get the same effect?

Robin[_5_] February 18th 18 05:59 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 16:49, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Lacking an actual torque wrench, be sure to use equal pressure on all
>> the nuts. I use a two step process. First, tighten them to just snug
>> using a cross pattern. Then go back and tighten each one as evenly as
>> you can feel to tight, but don't kill them. Hard to decribe but you
>> don't want to stand on the wrench to get them very tight.

>
> The only way I know to "test" (but not "calibrate") a torque wrench is to
> have a double-headed bolt contraption that is long enough for two sockets
> to fit face to face.
>
> Then I would put a torque wrench on each end, and lock one in a vise and
> twist the other where they should both show the same torque.
>
> That only "tests" them.
> I don't know how to calibrate them because both could be wrong.
> And you have to "adjust" them if they are.
>
> Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?
>


Clamp head with handle horizontal; hang bucket of water measured
distance from head; add water until clicks; weight bucket; do sum.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


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