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-   -   Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools? (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=439982)

Mr Pounder Esquire February 18th 18 10:29 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:17:55 -0000, ultred ragnusen
> > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.

>>
>> I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and
>> inspecting tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles
>> simply because fronts wear differently than rears, and crowns affect
>> wear and alignment setup per side.
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg
>>
>> Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their
>> static balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles
>> and shards from the carcass.
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg
>>
>> With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in
>> America, I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in
>> terms of what 'mericans prefer overall.

>
> Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?! You
> replace whatever wears out when it wears out. What on earth is the
> point in moving them around so you have to replace all four at once?!


It's called preventive maintenance. You are too stupid to understand this.



ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 10:29 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
> drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.


Oh. Thanks. That's good because any decent toolbox has a set of 1/4", 3/8",
and 1/2" metric and SAE sockets.

Hmmmm... I just realized that those socket sizes are in SAE units, and not
in metric units.

Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
metric sized drive square?

> It's not a torque wrench - its just a wrench with a telescopic handle
> that is at least twice as long as that which normally comes with the car
> kit. It gives you much more leverage when trying to free the nut. It's
> the same principle of adding a scaffolding over over an existing wrench
> bar to make it longer.


Oh. I see. Yes. We all have used a pipe in times of need, to extend our
leverage. Most of us have pretty long "breaker bars" though, which is what
I would use if I needed the torque to remove a bolt.

>> It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
>> when you can change the distance along the lever!

>
> It you added an extension tube to the end of a normal click type torque
> wrench to make the handle twice as long and you applied your pressure to
> the end this extension wouldn't the torque wrench still click at the
> correct torque?


It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
hand on the torque wrench.

I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
"reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.

Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).

Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd get a
reading that is half what it actually is??????

alan_m February 18th 18 10:31 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 21:21, alan_m wrote:

> These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
> drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.
>


Different picture
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-teles...-17-19mm/7182r



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 10:37 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

> Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?!
> You replace whatever wears out when it wears out.


It's hard to tell if you're serious or if you're just trolling because I
already said multiple times in this thread that a palpable feathering
occurs at around 4K miles, which is normal for some vehicles driven under
certain conditions, even when tires are properly inflated and suspensions
are properly aligned.

> What on earth is the point in moving them around so you have
> to replace all four at once?!


While readjusting the assembly static balance and tire pressure (if
necessary) is more of a comfort than safety issue, there's added safety in
inspecting the tires closely periodically to look for damage and to pluck
out objects, where invariably between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards are
removed from each tire in each rotation cycle.

So that's roughly about 50x4x4 objects removed every year from your tires.

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?

Maybe fewer than 1/10th of a percent, but this tiny shard I removed
yesterday certainly had a slow-leak potential:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

alan_m February 18th 18 10:41 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 21:29, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
> 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
> metric sized drive square?


Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.

>
> It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
> touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
> hand on the torque wrench.
>
> I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
> of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
> "reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.
>
> Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).
>


You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
it to work correctly.

> Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
>get a
> reading that is half what it actually is??????
>


No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
the torque wrench.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m February 18th 18 10:59 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 18/02/2018 21:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?



In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 11:25 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

>> Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
>> 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
>> metric sized drive square?

>
> Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
> imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.


That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.

To us, Imperial is a strange word, where it often means Imperial Japan or
Imperial British (meaning before WWII in our vernacular), but we never use
the word "imperial" in terms of measurement units (at least I don't).

I have seen "imperial gallons" where I have to ask what they are, since we
just have gallons and liters and nothing else (similarly with regular tons
and long tons I guess).

I guess, since the US is anything but imperial, that the term must be so
old as to predate the SAE, and to relate to Imperial British units?

>> Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).
>>

>
> You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
> it to work correctly.


I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given spot?

>
> > Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
> >get a
> > reading that is half what it actually is??????
> >

>
> No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
> The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
> the torque wrench.


OK. I'm confused because I have a dial-type wrench which has a pin which
certainly is to prevent you from putting force at any other point for this
reason alone....

ultred ragnusen February 18th 18 11:32 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
wrote:

>> How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?

>
>
> In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
> by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
> drove over it.
>
> By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
> of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
simplicity of math per set of four tires.

One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
shards, which I agree might be too much.

How many slow leaks have you had over the years?

If it's a slow-or-fast leak once every ten years due to an object
penetrating the carcass, then the percentage is roughly about one-hundredth
of one percent.

How often do you get a leak (slow or fast) in your tires due to object
penetration?

I think the (slow or fast) leak due to an object penetrating the carcass
percentage is somewhere in between the one tenth of one percent and one
hundredth of one percent, don't you think?

Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

Dean Hoffman[_5_] February 18th 18 11:38 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given
> spot?


They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not the end of the
handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds of force at
the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with a 4 foot
handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's handle to
loosen
the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.


AMuzi February 18th 18 11:48 PM

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 
On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>
>> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
>> certain given
>> spot?

>
> They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not
> the end of the handle.
> Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds
> of force at
> the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with
> a 4 foot handle.
> It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
> handle to loosen
> the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.
>


Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a
single point load which is why the handle has a pivot pin.
Your comments are correct for click wrenches.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971




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