83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

Hi all,

I am hoping somebody can give me a bit of advice. Recently the pipe
in my exhaust system rusted clean through and was actually dragging
under my car. It needed some help so I took it to a local muffler
shop. They told me my entire exhaust system was shot and needed
replacement. My car is an 83 rabbit and was dragging a rusted pipe
around- so I had no doubts that it was. They told me they would
replace the whole thing from engine back for just over $300- I said go
for it (love my little car). Upon its return I noticed it was
rattling a bit (still is) and also seemed a bit louder than it should
be so I took a peek under neath to see the handy work. I thought
maybe a heat shield was rubbing on the pipe or something. Everything
looked fine but I could not help but notice there is now no catalytic
converter- just a straight pipe. I am rather upset about it and my
question is -should I be?? I am on the verge of calling them but am
not sure what I should say. Should I be expected to pay extra to have
them put a cat on? I do not want to drive around without one for
several obvious reasons. Basically I don't want to chew them out
unless they have it coming. Any advise or insight on how to handle
this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Chris

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter on a
vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being used on our
roads as a private vehicle. Very stiff fines for doing that if caught.

Ask them about the rattle! Let them show you where it is coming from.
Ask them what they had to do to the exhaust, or what they replaced!
Usually the rattle comes from a defective catalytic converter and you might
not have heard the rattle if the exhaust was really loud! ;-)

JMHO
--
later,
(One out of many daves)


"chris" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I am hoping somebody can give me a bit of advice. Recently the pipe
> in my exhaust system rusted clean through and was actually dragging
> under my car. It needed some help so I took it to a local muffler
> shop. They told me my entire exhaust system was shot and needed
> replacement. My car is an 83 rabbit and was dragging a rusted pipe
> around- so I had no doubts that it was. They told me they would
> replace the whole thing from engine back for just over $300- I said go
> for it (love my little car). Upon its return I noticed it was
> rattling a bit (still is) and also seemed a bit louder than it should
> be so I took a peek under neath to see the handy work. I thought
> maybe a heat shield was rubbing on the pipe or something. Everything
> looked fine but I could not help but notice there is now no catalytic
> converter- just a straight pipe. I am rather upset about it and my
> question is -should I be?? I am on the verge of calling them but am
> not sure what I should say. Should I be expected to pay extra to have
> them put a cat on? I do not want to drive around without one for
> several obvious reasons. Basically I don't want to chew them out
> unless they have it coming. Any advise or insight on how to handle
> this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
> Chris

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter on a
> vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being used on our
> roads as a private vehicle. Very stiff fines for doing that if caught.

I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal everywhere in the US.
There are many areas in the US that don't do emissions testing, and in
those areas I doubt they would care if you remove the catalytic
converter. They might not even check for that.

I was once talking with someone who lived in an area that doesn't do
emissions testing, and he didn't mention any legal problems.

Eric

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_lega...ar_in_Michigan
"It is not legal to modify the emissions sytem in any state. Doing so is a
violation of Federal Law"

http://autoparts.lifetips.com/cat/61...sions-control/
"According to federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and
replaced with "converter replacement pipes" by any person. The 1990 Clean
Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing
"converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs
such pipes would violate the Clean Air Act."

this was interesting reading
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...3-3536&invol=1

I would not want to be caught removing one! <g>
--
later,
(One out of many daves)

"Eric Oulashin" > wrote in message
...
> dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
>> In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter
>> on a vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being
>> used on our roads as a private vehicle. Very stiff fines for doing that
>> if caught.
>
> I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal everywhere in the US. There
> are many areas in the US that don't do emissions testing, and in those
> areas I doubt they would care if you remove the catalytic converter. They
> might not even check for that.
>
> I was once talking with someone who lived in an area that doesn't do
> emissions testing, and he didn't mention any legal problems.
>
> Eric

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

On Sep 10, 4:30*pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" >
wrote:
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_lega...ytic_converter...
> "It is not legal to modify the emissions sytem in any state. Doing so is a
> violation of Federal Law"
>
> http://autoparts.lifetips.com/cat/61...sions-control/
> "According to federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and
> replaced with "converter replacement pipes" by any person. The 1990 Clean
> Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing
> "converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs
> such pipes would violate the Clean Air Act."
>
> this was interesting readinghttp://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase..pl?court=wi&vol=wisctapp2\2004\03-3536&invol=1
>
> I would not want to be caught removing one! *<g>
> --
> later,
> (One out of many daves)
>
> "Eric Oulashin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> >> In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter
> >> on a vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being
> >> used on our roads as a private vehicle. *Very stiff fines for doing that
> >> if caught.
>
> > I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal everywhere in the US. There
> > are many areas in the US that don't do emissions testing, and in those
> > areas I doubt they would care if you remove the catalytic converter. *They
> > might not even check for that.
>
> > I was once talking with someone who lived in an area that doesn't do
> > emissions testing, and he didn't mention any legal problems.
>
> > Eric

I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My
car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be
calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
for themselves.

Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an
option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be
interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would
this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
it!

Thanks so much to all of you.

Cheerio,
Chris

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

Let us know what they say!

I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! lol



"chris" > wrote

snip

I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My
car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be
calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
for themselves.

Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an
option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be
interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would
this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
it!

Thanks so much to all of you.

Cheerio,
Chris

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

I doubt that would work, cats need to be hot to work, that is why they
are always near the engine.

nate

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> Let us know what they say!
>
> I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! lol
>
>
>
> "chris" > wrote
>
> snip
>
> I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
> legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
> Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My
> car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
> checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
> converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be
> calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
> for themselves.
>
> Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
> built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an
> option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be
> interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
> is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
> for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would
> this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
> fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
> it!
>
> Thanks so much to all of you.
>
> Cheerio,
> Chris
>
>


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2
sensor! you need that for proper closed loop operation

nate

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> Let us know what they say!
>
> I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! lol
>
>
>
> "chris" > wrote
>
> snip
>
> I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
> legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
> Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My
> car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
> checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
> converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be
> calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
> for themselves.
>
> Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
> built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an
> option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be
> interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
> is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
> for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would
> this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
> fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
> it!
>
> Thanks so much to all of you.
>
> Cheerio,
> Chris
>
>


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

On 11 Sep, 18:42, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2
> sensor! *you need that for proper closed loop operation
>
> nate
>
>
>
> dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> > Let us know what they say!
>
> > I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! *lol
>
> > "chris" > wrote
>
> > snip
>
> > I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
> > legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
> > Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. *My
> > car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
> > checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
> > converter. *I am really thinking they messed with my car. *I'll be
> > calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
> > for themselves.
>
> > Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
> > built in catalytic converter? *I had never heard of that as even an
> > option. *Do those exist? * If anyone has any info on this I would be
> > interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
> > is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
> > for it to start on fire. *If they built the cat into the muffler would
> > this still be a concern? *I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
> > fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
> > it!
>
> > Thanks so much to all of you.
>
> > Cheerio,
> > Chris
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Hi All,

Just got off the phone with the place that did the work on my car,
they said I can bring my car in later this afternoon and they will
take a look at it. It does not sound promising however. The person I
just spoke with said they only replaced from the catalytic converter
back which is total bs. He also said if they would have replaced the
converter it would have added about $700 to the bill. So I am getting
the feeling they are going to try to make me either forget the whole
thing or pay $700. I have checked around online and it shows
converters for my car for well under $100, and I told him that. He
said "well you can try that but they usually do not work out" followed
by a chuckle. What is that supposed to mean? Do aftermarket cats not
work?? Can someone help me out here, am I being messed with?

Thanks a ton,
Chris

83 rabbit exhaust-help
 

On Sep 14, 11:19*am, chris > wrote:
> On 11 Sep, 18:42, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
>
>
> > oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2
> > sensor! *you need that for proper closed loop operation
>
> > nate
>
> > dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> > > Let us know what they say!
>
> > > I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! *lol
>
> > > "chris" > wrote
>
> > > snip
>
> > > I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is
> > > legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is).
> > > Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. *My
> > > car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also
> > > checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic
> > > converter. *I am really thinking they messed with my car. *I'll be
> > > calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say
> > > for themselves.
>
> > > Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a
> > > built in catalytic converter? *I had never heard of that as even an
> > > option. *Do those exist? * If anyone has any info on this I would be
> > > interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car
> > > is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible
> > > for it to start on fire. *If they built the cat into the muffler would
> > > this still be a concern? *I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small
> > > fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use
> > > it!
>
> > > Thanks so much to all of you.
>
> > > Cheerio,
> > > Chris
>
> > --
> > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just got off the phone with the place that did the work on my car,
> they said I can bring my car in later this afternoon and they will
> take a look at it. *It does not sound promising however. *The person I
> just spoke with said they only replaced from the catalytic converter
> back which is total bs. *He also said if they would have replaced the
> converter it would have added about $700 to the bill. *So I am getting
> the feeling they are going to try to make me either forget the whole
> thing or pay $700. *I have checked around online and it shows
> converters for my car for well under $100, and I told him that. *He
> said "well you can try that but they usually do not work out" followed
> by a chuckle. *What is that supposed to mean? *Do aftermarket cats not
> work?? *Can someone help me out here, am I being messed with?
>
> Thanks a ton,
> Chris

I just got back from the shop, it has been confirmed that there is no
cat:) Of course he tried to say it was possible that there was not
one on it to begin with. There was and I made that clear. I'll hear
back from them tomorrow after they talk to the manager so I guess we
will see how it goes. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers,
Chris