Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:17:55 -0000, ultred ragnusen
> > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.
>>
>> I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and
>> inspecting tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles
>> simply because fronts wear differently than rears, and crowns affect
>> wear and alignment setup per side.
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg
>>
>> Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their
>> static balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles
>> and shards from the carcass.
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg
>>
>> With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in
>> America, I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in
>> terms of what 'mericans prefer overall.
>
> Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?! You
> replace whatever wears out when it wears out. What on earth is the
> point in moving them around so you have to replace all four at once?!

It's called preventive maintenance. You are too stupid to understand this.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

> These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
> drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.

Oh. Thanks. That's good because any decent toolbox has a set of 1/4", 3/8",
and 1/2" metric and SAE sockets.

Hmmmm... I just realized that those socket sizes are in SAE units, and not
in metric units.

Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
metric sized drive square?

> It's not a torque wrench - its just a wrench with a telescopic handle
> that is at least twice as long as that which normally comes with the car
> kit. It gives you much more leverage when trying to free the nut. It's
> the same principle of adding a scaffolding over over an existing wrench
> bar to make it longer.

Oh. I see. Yes. We all have used a pipe in times of need, to extend our
leverage. Most of us have pretty long "breaker bars" though, which is what
I would use if I needed the torque to remove a bolt.

>> It must be a clever internal mechanism that calculates the torque correctly
>> when you can change the distance along the lever!
>
> It you added an extension tube to the end of a normal click type torque
> wrench to make the handle twice as long and you applied your pressure to
> the end this extension wouldn't the torque wrench still click at the
> correct torque?

It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
hand on the torque wrench.

I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
"reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.

Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).

Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd get a
reading that is half what it actually is??????

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 18/02/2018 21:21, alan_m wrote:

> These telescopic bars have a normal 1/2 inch square drive that any 1/2
> drive socket can fit into. You don't have to use the socket it comes with.
>

Different picture
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-teles...-17-19mm/7182r



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wrote:

> Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?!
> You replace whatever wears out when it wears out.

It's hard to tell if you're serious or if you're just trolling because I
already said multiple times in this thread that a palpable feathering
occurs at around 4K miles, which is normal for some vehicles driven under
certain conditions, even when tires are properly inflated and suspensions
are properly aligned.

> What on earth is the point in moving them around so you have
> to replace all four at once?!

While readjusting the assembly static balance and tire pressure (if
necessary) is more of a comfort than safety issue, there's added safety in
inspecting the tires closely periodically to look for damage and to pluck
out objects, where invariably between 50 and 100 pebbles and shards are
removed from each tire in each rotation cycle.

So that's roughly about 50x4x4 objects removed every year from your tires.

How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?

Maybe fewer than 1/10th of a percent, but this tiny shard I removed
yesterday certainly had a slow-leak potential:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 18/02/2018 21:29, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
> 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
> metric sized drive square?

Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.

>
> It would as long as the only point of that loosely fitting extension tube
> touching the torque wrench were at the place that you would have put your
> hand on the torque wrench.
>
> I guess if you put a tightly fitting extension tube over the torque wrench
> of a length that doubles the torque wrench length, then you'd get a
> "reading" of (half? double?) on the torque wrench.
>
> Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).
>

You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
it to work correctly.

> Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
>get a
> reading that is half what it actually is??????
>

No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
the torque wrench.
--
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On 18/02/2018 21:37, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?


In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
drove over it.

By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?


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wrote:

>> Do the 4-sided openings in European sockets conform to the same standard
>> 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" sizes we use in America? Or do the Europeans use a
>> metric sized drive square?
>
> Yep, standard 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 square drives which can be used with both
> imperial and metric hex/12 point sockets.

That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
standard of units.

To us, Imperial is a strange word, where it often means Imperial Japan or
Imperial British (meaning before WWII in our vernacular), but we never use
the word "imperial" in terms of measurement units (at least I don't).

I have seen "imperial gallons" where I have to ask what they are, since we
just have gallons and liters and nothing else (similarly with regular tons
and long tons I guess).

I guess, since the US is anything but imperial, that the term must be so
old as to predate the SAE, and to relate to Imperial British units?

>> Let me think about that.... (would it be double or half?).
>>
>
> You can place you hands on any part of a click type torque wrench to get
> it to work correctly.

I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given spot?

>
> > Upon a few moments of circumspection, I'm not sure, but I think you'd
> >get a
> > reading that is half what it actually is??????
> >
>
> No, the end of the torque wrench would move exactly the same distance.
> The end of the extension would move by twice the distance as the end of
> the torque wrench.

OK. I'm confused because I have a dial-type wrench which has a pin which
certainly is to prevent you from putting force at any other point for this
reason alone....

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

>> How many of those 800 objects would eventually cause a blowout?
>
>
> In my experience of 40 years of driving all my punctures have been made
> by objects long enough to go straight through the tyre the moment I
> drove over it.
>
> By your logic if 10% of the shards could result in a puncture would all
> of us that don't preform this task expect around one puncture per month?

I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
simplicity of math per set of four tires.

One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
shards, which I agree might be too much.

How many slow leaks have you had over the years?

If it's a slow-or-fast leak once every ten years due to an object
penetrating the carcass, then the percentage is roughly about one-hundredth
of one percent.

How often do you get a leak (slow or fast) in your tires due to object
penetration?

I think the (slow or fast) leak due to an object penetrating the carcass
percentage is somewhere in between the one tenth of one percent and one
hundredth of one percent, don't you think?

Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a certain given
> spot?

They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not the end of the
handle.
Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds of force at
the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with a 4 foot
handle.
It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's handle to
loosen
the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>
>> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
>> certain given
>> spot?
>
> They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not
> the end of the handle.
> Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds
> of force at
> the end of the handle to loosen a nut. Take a wrench with
> a 4 foot handle.
> It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
> handle to loosen
> the same nut. That's why cheater pipes work.
>

Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a
single point load which is why the handle has a pivot pin.
Your comments are correct for click wrenches.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 18/02/2018 22:25, ultred ragnusen wrote:

>
> That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
> standard of units.

Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.

I'm now retired and during my schooling it was mainly the metric system
that was taught.

In the UK we still use a imperial units for some items. Beer in pubs is
sold in pints and not litres. Vehicle speed and road signs are still in
miles and not kilometres. Manufactures/dealers still refer to petrol
consumption in miles per gallon even though petrol has been sold by the
litre for 3 decades or more.

I was an engineer by profession and only used metric my whole working
life for the job.

Some non-metric items are throwback to history - they have been that way
for hundreds of years and haven't changed.

> To us, Imperial is a strange word, where it often means Imperial Japan or
> Imperial British (meaning before WWII in our vernacular), but we never use
> the word "imperial" in terms of measurement units (at least I don't).

> I have seen "imperial gallons" where I have to ask what they are, since we
> just have gallons and liters and nothing else (similarly with regular tons
> and long tons I guess).

We only say gallons BUT when talking to the ex-colonies we have to say
'Imperial' because your pints and gallons are different from ours.

1 imperial (UK) pint = 1.2 US pint
1 imperial (UK) gallon = 1.2 US gallons

There is also the tonne = 1,000 kg

--
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On 2/18/18 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>> On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>>
>>> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
>>> certain given
>>> spot?
>>
>> Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* They measure torque at the head of the wrench, not
>> the end of the handle.
>> Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle.Â* Say it takes 50 pounds
>> of force at
>> the end of the handleÂ* to loosen a nut.Â*Â* Take a wrench with
>> a 4 foot handle.
>> It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
>> handle to loosen
>> the same nut.Â*Â* That's why cheater pipes work.
>>
>
> Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a single point load
> which is why the handle has a pivot pin. Your comments are correct for
> click wrenches.
>
I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam scale
torque wrench.
<https://www.homedepot.com/p/Presa-1-4-in-Drive-0-in-to-80-in-lbs-Beam-Style-Torque-Wrench-CP31006/206975714>
or http://alturl.com/wsjx3

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 18/02/2018 22:32, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> I can't stake my mortgage on the percentage but I did say one tenth of one
> percent, and I did easily count over fifty objects per tire, which is about
> 800 objects per year, which let's just call 1000 objects in a year for
> simplicity of math per set of four tires.
>
> One tenth of one percent of that number is 1 slow leak a year due to
> shards, which I agree might be too much.

My apologies, I did mis-read one tenth as ten percent.

However, even when I've had slow leaks its been objects that have fully
penetrated the tyre at the the time I ran over it, or a few rotations of
the wheel later. Nails and screws often cause a puncture but then until
removed either seal the puncture or cause a very slow leak

>
> Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
> shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
> anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg

i) it would have fallen off.
ii) as the tyre wears it would have become the high spot and be ground
off by the road surface



--
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Gay Wanker Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), theSociopathic Attention Whore
 

On 18/02/2018 23:02, Peeler wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:40:43 -0000, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:29:24 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire > wrote:
>>
>>> James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:17:55 -0000, ultred ragnusen
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> No need to with those little **** ant things you blokes call cars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That must be why merkins are so keen to own English cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure who is trolling and who is joking as rotating and
>>>>> inspecting tires is a natural thing that you do on most vehicles
>>>>> simply because fronts wear differently than rears, and crowns affect
>>>>> wear and alignment setup per side.
>>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/...ic_balance.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, rotating tires gives you a chance to doublecheck their
>>>>> static balance and to inspect and remove between 50 and 100 pebbles
>>>>> and shards from the carcass.
>>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter2.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in
>>>>> America, I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in
>>>>> terms of what 'mericans prefer overall.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the fronts wear faster than the rears, but so what?! You
>>>> replace whatever wears out when it wears out. What on earth is the
>>>> point in moving them around so you have to replace all four at once?!
>>>
>>> It's called preventive maintenance. You are too stupid to understand this.
>>
>> It doesn't change the speed at which the tyres wear out, so is utterly pointless. Don't bother replying, you're killfiled, I just peeked into it to see what ****e you were spouting.
>
> ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
> hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL
>
> I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
> about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
> sociopathic ******! LOL

ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
is going to waste.

Gay Wanker Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the Sociopathic Attention Whore
 

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:20:31 +0000, Fredxx, the resident smartass,
smartassed again:

>> ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
>> hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL
>>
>> I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
>> about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
>> sociopathic ******! LOL
>
> ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
> is going to waste.

You felt personally addressed when "gay ******" was mentioned? Obviously
RIGHTLY so, you smartass who can never hold back his gay fantasies! <BG>

Remember, gay smartass: you, TOO, claimed to have "killfiled" me! ROTFLOL

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

"MrCheerful" wrote:

> > I think not - but I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
> > can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
> > if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
> >
>
> no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
> mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
> move.

Oh crap. Is this myth still floating around?
We're not measuring *movement*, we're measuring *torque*.
Place a 100 pound weight on one end of a 5-foot long teeter-totter.
How much weight do you add to the other end to balance it?
Place a 100 pound weight on one end of a mile long teeter-totter.
Same question. (PS: You'll get the same answer)

Back to the actual question:
3-inch extension keeps you close to the nut, unlikely to twist sideways and fall off.
16-inch extension has the possibility of pulling the socket out of alignment, maybe
rounding off the nut, and scraping your knuckles (and your shiny new wrench) on the
ground, UNLESS you properly support the wrench at the head end to keep it straight.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

> You really need to find something more interesting to do with your life.

Pot, kettle, black.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 2/18/2018 5:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On 2/18/18 4:48 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/18/2018 4:38 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
>>> On 2/18/18 4:25 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought all torque wrenches needed your hand in a
>>>> certain given
>>>> spot?
>>>
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â They measure torque at the head of the
>>> wrench, not
>>> the end of the handle.
>>> Take a wrench with a 2 foot handle. Say it takes 50 pounds
>>> of force at
>>> the end of the handle to loosen a nut.  Take a
>>> wrench with
>>> a 4 foot handle.
>>> It will take 25 pounds of force at the end of the that one's
>>> handle to loosen
>>> the same nut.  That's why cheater pipes work.
>>>
>>
>> Classic beam scale torque wrenches do indeed rely on a
>> single point load which is why the handle has a pivot pin.
>> Your comments are correct for click wrenches.
>>
> I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam
> scale torque wrench.
> <https://www.homedepot.com/p/Presa-1-4-in-Drive-0-in-to-80-in-lbs-Beam-Style-Torque-Wrench-CP31006/206975714>
>
> or http://alturl.com/wsjx3

Yep that's the style. Scale reading assumes the load is at
the handle pivot pin.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

>> Statistically speaking, I get your drift that it isn't worth removing
>> shards from a tire just to prevent a slow leak every couple of years, but,
>> anecdotally, what do you think this shard would have done, over time?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/18/splinter3.jpg
>
> i) it would have fallen off.
> ii) as the tyre wears it would have become the high spot and be ground
> off by the road surface

Hmmmm.... maybe it would have fallen off, which most pebbles, I'd wager,
would do. But this would likely, IMHO, have simply been pushed further into
the tire, particularly given it's arrowhead shape.

Personally, based on the shape and direct angle of entry normal to the tire
surface, I give that shard from a 95% to 99% chance of having punctured the
tire over time, whereas I give a round pebble only from 1/10th to 1/100th
of one percent the same chance.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

> I don't get the why if this is what you mean by beam scale
> torque wrench.

I show both types of torque wrenches in my original post, reproduced below.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg

The "beam style" (with the black handle & red pointer) has a "pivot pin" to
ensure that your force is applied at a single point of contact on the bar.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

>> That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
>> standard of units.
>
> Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.

Do the Germans and French also use "inch" sizes for their ratchets?

> We only say gallons BUT when talking to the ex-colonies we have to say
> 'Imperial' because your pints and gallons are different from ours.
>
> 1 imperial (UK) pint = 1.2 US pint
> 1 imperial (UK) gallon = 1.2 US gallons

I see. Like you, we only speak of "gallons", where we don't ever need to
distinguish between your gallons and our gallons, I guess. :)

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 19/02/2018 00:23, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
>>> standard of units.
>>
>> Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.
>
> Do the Germans and French also use "inch" sizes for their ratchets?

I believe it's an international standard with no metric equivalents for
the "drive" side of sockets.


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In article >,
Dean Hoffman > wrote:
> The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.

Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In article >,
Sanity Clause > wrote:
> Back to the actual question: 3-inch extension keeps you close to the
> nut, unlikely to twist sideways and fall off. 16-inch extension has the
> possibility of pulling the socket out of alignment, maybe rounding off
> the nut, and scraping your knuckles (and your shiny new wrench) on the
> ground, UNLESS you properly support the wrench at the head end to keep
> it straight.

If you have a spare jack, place it under the extension bar to reduce
sideways load on the socket. You can then use your full body weight on the
breaker bar with less chance of breaking the tools.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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On 2/18/18 7:00 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Dean Hoffman > wrote:
>> The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.
>
> Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?
>
Shucks. I forgot. I actually know someone who has a Range Rover.
There was a Jag convertible around for awhile but I haven't seen it
for years.
Nissans are Japanese, Mexican, or American made at least for the North
American market.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:00:02 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> wrote:

> wrote:
>
>>>First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>>(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>>1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>>2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>>3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>
>> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
>> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
>> fine motion is required.
>
>This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
>reasons, right?
>1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
>nuts and the socket itself).
>2. It is stronger overall (presumably)
>
>Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
>3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
>4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)

That's because 12 point sockets are not the best to use on an impact
- as discussed previously.

And yes, they ARE fatter - because they REALLY need to be.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 15:28:22 -0600, Dean Hoffman
> wrote:

>On 2/18/18 3:17 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>
>> With respect to the country of origin of most cars driven in America,
>> I'd wager that Japan has the rest of the world beat in terms of what
>> 'mericans prefer overall. b
> The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini. There are
>lots of cars with Japanese badges around. Some of those are built
>in the US though. Supposedly US vehicles might be built in Canada
>or Mexico.


Or Korea if it wears a bow-tie.

Gay Wanker Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), theSociopathic Attention Whore
 

On 18/02/2018 23:43, Peeler wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:20:31 +0000, Fredxx, the resident smartass,
> smartassed again:
>
>>> ROTFLOL! And Birdbrain, the resident gay ****** of all the UK ngs, quickly
>>> hides behind his ridiculous pretend killfile again! ****ing HILARIOUS! LOL
>>>
>>> I sure hope that eventually all of your neighbours and relatives will learn
>>> about your "reputation" on these groups, Peter Hucker, you filthy
>>> sociopathic ******! LOL
>>
>> ROTFLOL! And Peeler, Birdbrain's jilted lover, is jealous all that spunk
>> is going to waste.
>
> You felt personally addressed when "gay ******" was mentioned? Obviously
> RIGHTLY so, you smartass who can never hold back his gay fantasies! <BG>

I didn't feel addressed, and I don't feel the need to dribble over
PHucker's every post.

> Remember, gay smartass: you, TOO, claimed to have "killfiled" me! ROTFLOL

Unfortunately not in uk.rec.cars.maintenance but is easily remedied.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:42:55 +0000, MrCheerful
> wrote:

>On 18/02/2018 17:00, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>>
>>> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
>>> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
>>> fine motion is required.
>>
>> This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
>> reasons, right?
>> 1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
>> nuts and the socket itself).
>> 2. It is stronger overall (presumably)
>>
>> Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
>> 3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
>> 4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
>>
>
>I use single hex impact sockets for 99.9 percent of jobs, there are
>practically speaking no occasions when they are too fat to get
>somewhere. (better makes are thinner sided than cheap ones)
>
>Unless you have 12 sided nuts/bolts, then you do not need 12 sided
>sockets (there are some odd cars/equipment which use 12 sided hardware)

I think the only time I ever saw that was on the fuel pump bolts on a
'67 Pontiac. I wondered why there of all places.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:52:28 +0000, MrCheerful
> wrote:

>On 18/02/2018 17:10, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>> He could be referencing the special torque bars that are used by many
>>> tire shops. They look like an extension bar, but they come in
>>> different thicknesses and are color coded to indicate the torque which
>>> can be applied using each one.
>>
>> I just mean the right-angle simple bar extension that you have to have in
>> order to keep the torque wrench away from the sidewall of the tire.
>>
>> You have to have an extension no matter what, because the torque wrench
>> hits the tire sidewall because the lug nuts are on the hub but the tire
>> sidewall sticks out a few inches.
>>
>> Even a deep socket isn't long enough, so the least I can add by way of
>> extension is a deep socket plus a 2 or 3 inch extension bar (whatever I
>> have that is shortest).
>>
>> I was asking if I used a 3 inch extension bar off the deep socket, or, if I
>> used a 6 inch extension bar, would it matter for the torque?
>>
>> I think not - but I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
>> can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
>> if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
>>
>
>no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
>mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
>move.

But the extension is not a mile long and anything lost in twisting a 10"
extension is too small to measure. However if you have the extension so
it's tipped a little, not in line with the axis of the nut/bolt, then
some torque is not in the direction of turning the nut, and the longer
the extension, the more is lost. This happens when the socket is loose
on the nut, not especially lug nuts.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Feb 2018 01:08:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave
Plowman (News)" > wrote:

>In article >,
> Sanity Clause > wrote:
>> Back to the actual question: 3-inch extension keeps you close to the
>> nut, unlikely to twist sideways and fall off. 16-inch extension has the
>> possibility of pulling the socket out of alignment, maybe rounding off
>> the nut, and scraping your knuckles (and your shiny new wrench) on the
>> ground, UNLESS you properly support the wrench at the head end to keep
>> it straight.
>
>If you have a spare jack, place it under the extension bar to reduce
>sideways load on the socket. You can then use your full body weight on the
>breaker bar with less chance of breaking the tools.

Good idea.

I left my car sitting for a month after I had surgery, and one wheel had
no cover. And snow covered up to the top bolt for most of the month.

Months later, I was at Newark Airport and when I got back to the car, it
had a flat tire. I had the jack handle/lug wrench, and the bolts were
rusted on so tight I had to stand on the wrench to loosen them, I even
had to lift my body up and down on a couple, and I broke off 3.

What to do? Leave the car there, have it towed to a shop, take public
transportation back to NYC and then to Brooklyn, then take public
transportation back the next day, or drive home.

Of course, i drove.

Tire was on the left rear,and every time I turned right it went clop,
clop, clop. When I turned left or went straight, it was quiet.

Drove on Route 1 -- fairly quiet because most people on the Turnpike --
to the Holland Tunnel. What to do? If you break down in the Holland
Tunnel, you delay traffic when it's heavy (This was Sunday evening, when
everyone is coming back from the weekend) so they keep a tow truck there
all the time. But they charge you a 100 or 200 in the 1970's which
would be at least 500 now. Still, it had worked well so I took the
tunnel. Turned east on a small street towards the Brooklyn Bridge and
just as I got to Broadway, big thump. Got out. Wheel has come off the
car. Last two lug nuts had broken. What to do?

Almost no cars Sunday night, but Monday morning it's lower Manhattan
rush hour. Cars everywhere. Not allowed to park on the narrow street I
was on. Scouted ahead and found a parking lot a short block North up
Broadway, which is one-way South.

Jacked up the car, put it on on the brake drum with no bolts. Lowered
the car and drove. Got 8 feet!! Hey, that's pretty good, but then the
wheel fell off. Jacked up the car, put it on on the brake drum with no
bolts. Lowered the car and drove. Didn't make it 2 inches. Wheel fell
off. Jacked up the car, put it on on the brake drum with no bolts.
Lowered the car and drove. This time it went 40 feet to Broadway,
turned left (the good direction) 100 fett up Broadway, left across the
curb and sidewalk into the parking lot. All in one shot. The wheel
fell off just as I got fully inside the parking lot.

Took the subway home and returned the next day with tools to punch out
the broken lug nuts, and new lugnuts. Took 45 minutes. Done by 10AM.
Parking lot guy wanted to charge me for 3 spaces because I was parked
sideways, but he caved easily when I said it was only 10 and he'd fill
the spaces, and he only charged me 1.5 times the daily rate. (His point
was that the lot filled up by 9, but I guess I was right that some
people came later.)

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:18:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> wrote:

> wrote:
>
>>>Third question is related to this combination pictu
>>>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
>>>Where this question is a combination question of:
>>>a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?
>> To fit in the hole they store the tools in.
>
>I can't disagree that the shape and length of a purposeful "lug wrench" is
>designed just for removing lug nuts, so certainly that's why it's curved
>the way it is (to fit around the tire sidewall).
>
>Certainly smaller is easier to fit in a car.
>
>Since you can't use a torque wrench and a lug wrench at the same time, I
>was wondering if they made it just short enough so that a normal person
>could not apply "too much" torque to the lug bolts?
>
>Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
>only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
>bar and their hands?
>
>Is that just an urban myth?

I've never heard it and I don't think it's true.

It's a multipurpose tool. The tapered end is for removing hubcaps and
wheel covers, and the length is determined by what works for a jack
handle, on the millions of cars which have used this wrench as the
bumper jack handle. If they made it longer, and didn't use a stronger
grade of steel, one could bend it by standing on it. Indeed, I did bend
one that way, and that was when I weighed 170. If it was longer, a lot
of them would end up bent. Once they're bent, they're never as strong
again.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:58:43 +0000, alan_m
> wrote:

>On 18/02/2018 17:18, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>
>> Since you can't use a torque wrench and a lug wrench at the same time, I
>> was wondering if they made it just short enough so that a normal person
>> could not apply "too much" torque to the lug bolts?
>
>99.99% of car owners don't own a torque wrench. The short green wrench
>is the cheapest that can be made (and to fit in with jacking tool kit)
>to get someone out of trouble when they have to change of tyre in an
>emergency. In many cases when the tyre has be installed from factory or
>by a the retailer using (air) powered tools most people would find it
>very difficult to undo the wheel nuts with that wrench. Much better to
>discard it and get something with a longer handle
>
>https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Aut...+Wrench/p93520
>
>or
>
>https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr
>
>
>>
>> Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
>> only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
>> bar and their hands?
>>
>
>But don't most people jump on it using their whole body weight ? :)

Apparently most people don't even change their own tires, if you figure
that 90% of women don't and that's 45% of drivers. Plus what, 10, 20,
30% of men. Of those who do, most don't even think of standing on it,
or, I suspect, are afraid to do so.

Of course there are very few flats these days so getting good data is
harder.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

wrote:

> certainly, but there is no need for such precision in this application.

This video tested a ten foot extension with the torque wrench.
https://youtu.be/wNcCwdtfcOU?t=413

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 18-Feb-18 5:42 PM, MrCheerful wrote:
> On 18/02/2018 17:00, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> Â* wrote:
>>
>>>> First question is what is the practical difference between these
>>>> three 21mm
>>>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on
>>>> today?
>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular
>>>> angle.
>>>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>>
>>> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
>>> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
>>> fine motion is required.
>>
>> This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
>> reasons, right?
>> 1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both
>> the
>> nuts and the socket itself).
>> 2. It is stronger overall (presumably)
>>
>> Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
>> 3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
>> 4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
>>
>
> I use single hex impact sockets for 99.9 percent of jobs, there are
> practically speaking no occasions when they are too fat to get
> somewhere. (better makes are thinner sided than cheap ones)
>
> Unless you have 12 sided nuts/bolts, then you do not need 12 sided
> sockets (there are some odd cars/equipment which use 12 sided hardware)

Garrett turbocharger compressor nuts are bi-hex (and cack handed). I had
to special order a 8mm bi-hex 1/4 drive socket as it's not a stock item.
You won't find bi-hex 1/4 drive sockets even in "pro" socket sets.

All nuts/bolts used by a Derby based jet engine maker are bi-hex flange
nuts/bolts. They are much lighter (and unbelievably expensive when made
from aero grade nickel alloy) as the bi-hex size is at least a size
smaller - there are 12 points to drive it so it's stronger.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 19-Feb-18 1:00 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Dean Hoffman > wrote:
>> The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.
>
> Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?
>

None of which are British.

Range Rover and Jaguar are now JLR and owned by Indian steel firm TATA.

Nissan never were British, Japanese forever. Nissan built their
reputation on British and German engineering using an American
production system that the Americans refused to use. The OHV "A" series
engine that powered the Cherry and Sunny though the 60's and 70's was
derived from a licensed copy of the BMC "A" series engine (original
Mini). The SOHC "L" (also bottom end of "KA" and "Z") series engines
that powered 510/710/810/910/Violet/Bluebirds/Zeds was a licensed copy
of a Mercedes 6 cylinder design (had 2 cylinders lopped off for 4 pot
versions). Both had been improved to the extent that the fee was no
longer payable.

Yes new Q30's are being made in Sunderland, UK.

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> That's strange that Europeans use a half-metric half-what-you-call-Imperial
>>> standard of units.
>>
>> Not necessarily the rest of Europe but the UK.
>
> Do the Germans and French also use "inch" sizes for their ratchets?
>

The French at least have a word for "inch" which translates as "thumb"
and is a colloquial measure of length. They also have a word for "foot"
which would be recognised as a length.

There are lots of other historical French units, some of which are still
used in particular applications in (UK) English such as printing (e.g.
points).

--
Graham J

Gay Wanker Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL), the Sociopathic Attention Whore
 

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 01:55:28 +0000, Fredxx, the resident smartass,
smartassed again:

>> You felt personally addressed when "gay ******" was mentioned? Obviously
>> RIGHTLY so, you smartass who can never hold back his gay fantasies! <BG>
>
> I didn't feel addressed,

Of course you did! You ALWAYS do, whenever the gay ****** gets abused! Go
figure, you gay smartass! <G>

> and I don't feel the need to dribble over PHucker's every post.

Come on, you are as gay as him! Your constant standing up for the gay ******
and your constant gay fantasies do give you away!

>> Remember, gay smartass: you, TOO, claimed to have "killfiled" me! ROTFLOL
>
> Unfortunately not in uk.rec.cars.maintenance but is easily remedied.

And the cowardly gay smartass quickly hides behind his pretend killfile
again, just like gay ****** Birdbrain keeps doing! You and Birdbrain indeed
ARE a pair! LMAO!

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

On 19/02/2018 03:34, micky wrote:

> Of course there are very few flats these days so getting good data is
> harder.
>

I was talking to someone recently who is in the car rescue / roadside
assistance business and he was saying that one of the growing problems
he sees is that cars come without spare tyres and an increasing number
of call outs are to people where the tyre cannot be repaired with a can
of squirty gunk and there is no spare in the vehicle.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?
 

In article >,
Dean Hoffman > wrote:
> On 2/18/18 7:00 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Dean Hoffman > wrote:
> >> The only British car I see in the mid USA is the Mini.
> >
> > Wot - no Range Rovers? Jaguars? Nissans?
> >
> Shucks. I forgot. I actually know someone who has a Range Rover.
> There was a Jag convertible around for awhile but I haven't seen it
> for years.

Most Jaguars built ain't convertibles.

> Nissans are Japanese, Mexican, or American made at least for the North
> American market.


According to Nissan UK, the US is their second largest export market after
the EU.

--
*I don't believe in astrology. I am a Sagittarius and we're very skeptical.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.