Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part5
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Last-modified: 2002/4/26
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PART V - Funny noises, oil leaks, temperature stuff

Note that troubleshooting and diagnostic procedures are
also in sections 3, 4, and 6.

* For heaven's sake, if your antifreeze was just changed and your car
started to overheat, find a different mechanic and purge the system of air
bubbles. (See below).

Index of oil leaks: (funny noises, temperature follow the oil leaks)

1. Oil loss from 2.5 (maybe 2.2) liter engine
2. Oil loss from 2.5/2.2 revisited
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover or oil pan gaskets
25. Oil leak - manual transmission (VERY common)
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6 - MOD 1/96
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake


1. Oil loss from 2.5 (maybe 2.2) liter engine

Chrysler replaced acote's 1991 Acclaim 2.5's valve seals (though there was
no blue smoke on startup) and the PCV valve, and installed an oil
restrictor valve, which he thinks was made standard in 1993. See also #10
and 46. Oil pan leaks appear to be common.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Oil loss from 2.2/2.5 revisited

Joe Coffey used two hose clamps, one at each end, and a better fitting hose
to fix an oil leak from the valve cover to the air breather on a
Shadow/Sundance. Dan LaBrake said the culprit was the hose that went from
the upper part of the valve to the underside of the air breather; oil
collects in the breather and leaks onto the engine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover or oil pan gaskets

** 2.2 and 2.5 liter engines only **

Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide: "1989-93... cylinder head and oil pan gaskets are
prone to leaking." ... "1990-91 - Owners can get a new cylinder head gasket
cover on models with 2.2L and 2.5L engines." (Jim Hoare)

wrote of p/n 4773193, a new valve cover (1994?) which
forms a superior seal on 2.5 engines, maybe 2.2s too. If anyone actually
gets Chrysler to buy them one, let me know. Chances are you're on your own.

Bob Meyer > says: The valve covers on
emission-controlled cars are vented through the inlet hose from the air
cleaner to the valve cover and the PCV valve from the valve cover to the
throttle body/intake manifold. If you are having a problem with valve
cover oil leaks, then you should check whether these hoses, or the small
crankcase air filters in the air cleaner, are blocked first before you
reseal the valve cover.

Around 1987, Chrysler switched from using a gasket to using RTV.
In 1994, they switched to a 1 piece valve cover from a 3 piece cover.

Mike Manning informs us that recall #467, issued in 1990, covers the valve
cover gasket; he says that the gasket was replaced with blue goo. Once this
stuff has set up, the cover needs to be re-tightened. We don't think the
dealers usually do it correctly. Mike finally replaced his with a cork
gasket.

This is a known problem but reps deny it; the situation calls for
assertiveness. Keep checking your engine, especially around the spark plug
area, for seeping oil. Ask that your engine be cleaned every time the
dealer fixes the seepage. If your car is out of warranty, try to have the
seepage fixed anyway. (New advice: on second thought, just do it yourself,
which is easier).

Paul F. Schikora : Went to NAPA and got a gasket set and a bottle of gasket
goo (orange colored stuff). Took my time cleaning the surfaces completely
and applied the gasket & goo per instructions. No more leak. However, I'm
sorry I didn't take the time to reseal the PCV connection cover. It's
always bled quite a bit of oil into the valve and air filter. (Note: this
was for 1987 model, which had a gasket).

JoDee McKenney says: I'd use the gaskets and the high temp silicone on each
of the metal surfaces. This allows a way to seal the parts together and
still get them apart later.

Daniel Stern warns: DO NOT DO THIS on an engine with mechanical lifters
(i.e G/RG engines and early V8s) because there will be hell to pay when it
comes time to adjust the tappet clearance.

Duane P Mantick provides TSB 09-17-89 which advises replacing the original
cover with one using RTV. The "cylinder head cover kit" is PN 5241066 and
contains the cover, five screws, 2 end seals, four studs, but not RTV
sealer PN 6500435. This TSB applies to "1989-1990 all domestic vehicles
with 2.2L or 2.5L EFI engines"

Michael J. Challis >, a Chrysler Master Tech, wrote that
Mopar RTV silicon works well: "The trick to this stuff is to have a clean
surface. Use brake parts cleaner to remove oil so you have a dry surface
for the RTV to bond to."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
25. Oil leak from manual transmission

Applies to all cars and minivans with the manual trans A-523, A-543, and
A-568 (most of them). The TSB (21-24-93) says that "vehicles that are in
the dealership for any other reason should also be inspected for this leak
condition." What is replaced is a remote vent assembly in place of the
existing lock pin, and a new linkage adjusting procedure for future
service. It should take about 20 minutes. Most dealers will say "no problem
found" unless you stick the service advisor's finger into the oil leak.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6

Jim Thatcher: the smoking from his 3.0 liter engine was coming
from the PCV housing. A redesigned valve cover handles the oil
properly. Details from Keith Vicker (I think): inside the front valve
cover, the PCV housing does not always drain oil properly. Drilling
holes in this MAY cure the problem - we have no experience with that.

Another reason:

In the older 3.0 heads the exhaust valve guides sink into the head. The
usual repair is to remove both cylinder heads, knock the guides back to
their normal position, and have snap rings installed onto the guides so
that they don't sink again. (Eric Eleazar, Dick Greenfield Dodge)

Check the oil pressure sending unit. You'll see it if you lie down and
look around the starter/oil filter area. A lot of 'em start leaking at
about 75K or so. It'll cost you around $20 to replace. Put a drip pan
under it. Then, gently back the old one out (threaded), and screw the
new one in; don't over-torque it. (Stan A. Bidlack)

Keith Vickers said: ...
Pat Goss said that in his shop only about 1 in 250 needed the heads pulled.
The seals can be replaced without pulling the heads.

DJ Allen said: My '88 3.0L was smoking like a volcano. The valve guides
were all in place. I replaced the valve guide seals while I was in there
and there hasn't been one puff of smoke since. I used Keith Vickers'
procedure. I found an 'on engine' valve spring compressor at my local
parts store for $25 and it worked, but I struggled with it because of
tight clearance.

For mo http://www.allpar.com/fix/3fix.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake

There is a curtain in the valve cover which prevents most oil from being
blown out the breather. Any oil in mist form should stay in mist and be
captured by the air filter. I had a problem where someone replaced my
leaking valve cover gasket and *forgot* to reinstall the curtain. I was
blowing about a quart every 500 miles. The worst part was that it
*looked* like my rings were blown. You would step on it on the freeway,
oil would pump out the breather, go down the air heater hose and burn on
the exhaust manifold producing oil smoke. (Thomas Lee Grice)

This is often just from a stuck PCV valve. If it is, chances are it's
leaking down to the air filter (and the air intake pipe) from a black
hose which comes up to the air horn (2.2/2.5 engines).

In the 2.5 (probably 2.2 as well) engine, oil can get sucked into the
PCV system unless a baffle plate is installed. He did this and it
worked.




Index of Funny Noises:
1. Noise on turns
2. Dakota creak
3. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
4. 4-cylinders: snapping noise when starting/stopping (see #18)
5. Daytona rattle
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
7. Whining or whistling noises from belt driven accessories
(most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
8. Rattle from back of car (hatchbacks)
9. Rattles/noises from engine compartment
10. Misc rattles
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)
12. Rear end noise - Neon
13. Squeal when ac is or goes on: see above, #61.
14. Doors make grinding noise when opening/closing
15. 1996 minivan (Caravan/Voyager/Town & Country) noises
(comprehensive list)
16. 1996 minivan sloshing gas tank
17. Grand Cherokee clunking noise (highway speeds)
18. Clicking/snapping noise on stop (see #4)
19. Clunking
20. Knocking/metallic clanking
21. Drive belt squeal
22. Inexplicable chime
*******
*******
*******

1. Herbert DaSilva > writes:

(Problem: Noise happens on left hand turns and some bumps. Was
originally chirping noise, but now more of a rumble. More frequent. Car:
1987 Shadow 2.2, five-speed, 110K miles.)

Isolate the problem with the following test:
1. - Select an off-ramp or empty parking lot where you can attain some
velocity while maintaining a left hand turn when the noise is evident.
2. - Clutch in or slip the tranny into neutral and pump the gas pedal to
rev the engine. If the noise does not change tone when the engine is
revved, the problem is in your driveline. If the noise changes tone
with the speed of the engine, the passenger side engine mount has
probably collapsed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Dakota creak

my truck had a loud "creak" while driving. The problem: a cover plate
between the converter and the truck body, directly under the front
drivers seat, that flexes under use. The fix was easy-stuff something
between the plate and the body. [Robert Duggan]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. 2.5 liter knock/idle

Cold engine knock a few seconds after startup, lasting about 3-5 minutes
-- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounds like valve lifter or
tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder. Usually disappears when
the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the computer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Snapping noise on start/stop

Noise comes from the left side of the engine while starting from or
coming to a stop. More prevalent when engine comaprtment hot.
Diagnosis: With windows closed, trans in drive or first and parking
brake on, put a load onto the gas. Release the load and shift into
reverse. Listen for the noise as you apply a load in reverse. If you
can't hear it, drive at low speeds with several quick, but not hard,
acceleration/deceleration moves. Parts requried: left engine support.
Time: .6 hours (from TSB 09-02-93).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Daytona rattle

Christopher Sennett Homer: Under the rear hatch are
two black plastic screw things with rubber bushings on the bottom,
at the rear corners on the hatch. When the hatch is closed
it rests on these bushings, now if one, or both, of them are too short
then the hatch pivots on the latch and rattles, so take some pliers
and unscrew the plasic bushings a little to extend them. that should
clear up that hatch rattle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping

Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB, but the dealer
said "you have to complain LOUDLY. The guy called it the 'post shift
bang' "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Whining or whistling noises (most 89-94 FWD vehicles)

Jim Zimmerman said TSB 21-40-93, affecting most FWD vehicles from 1989
to 1994, covers this. This noise comes from the transmission of the
FWD cars and minivans, with automatic "transaxles built with 3.02 or
3.22 final drive gear ratios. 1994 model year vehicles must have a
transaxle code prior to 1826 for this bulletin to apply." This is a 7
hour job and replaces MANY parts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Rattle from back of car

The screws that hold the trim onto the hatchback tend to come loose and
fall off. They cost 22 cents, so get extras.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Rattles from engine compartment

On a 2.2, the plastic hood covering the air cleaner lost a bolt, and
now has a huge rubber band holding it down to keep it from buzzing at
some RPMs. The air injection tube into the catalytic converter has a
filter which used to buzz against the firewall LOUDLY until I
relocated it.

These engines produce a lot of vibration, and there are a lot of hoses
and gismos nearly touching each other. Someone will have to poke her
head inside the engine compartment while an assistant revs up the
engine through the RPMs that it makes noise, and try to isolate the
noise producer. The safe way is to shut the engine off and see if you
can rattle anything with your hand. Also, look for any broken hose or
wire brackets. (Jim Van Damme)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Misc rattles

On my Sundance (Shadow), *all* the plastic covers that go over the seat
belt mounts were squeaking or rattling. I sprayed them with white
lithium grease where they were attached and where the were scraping or
hitting other plastic parts. (Dave)

Also on my Sundance, I had several instrument panel noises. The mechanic
put foam on the back of the radio faceplate and other easily removable
bits of plastic, which helped somewhat. The center console rubbed
against the underside of the dash. (Dave)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)

Get this -- there is a spring under the gas pedal. One squirt with white
lithium grease (well, a dozen squirts) took care of this annoying noise.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Neon rear end noise

(Jody L. Baze) sez:
Look under the rear of the car - shouldn't need to jack it up, it's
accessible. The sway bar is attached to the frame and runs up to near
the wheel where it is attached to the shock assembly with a tie rod.
It was the tie rod attachments that were squeaking.
I applied a few drops of teflon lube (it's what I had on hand) to both
the top and bottom pivot points around the bushings and no more
squeak. Pretty simple...it's a 1-minute job once you know where to lube!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Doors make grinding noise when opening/closing

had the same sound when his Stratus was delivered.
He put white lithium grease on the aluminum check straps and cycled the
doors several times.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
15. 1996 minivan noises (comprehensive list)

Bob Jaworski says rattles in the back may be cured by getting the rear
shocks replaced - there is a recall or TSB on this. If your middle seat is
rattling: the hook that holds the seat in may be loose. Crinkling sound
from the steering wheel: Resolved by readjusting column housing
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
16. 1996 minivan sloshing gas tank

Chrysler now has a new bracket with spacers. Many people will need a new
gas tank to replace their warped tank. All under warranty.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
17. Grand Cherokee clunking noise

(Alvin N. Wang) wrote that he had a random clunk/think
noise while at highway speeds. He moved the load bars on his roofrack as
far to the rear as possible and it cured it. The noise had sounded like it
was coming from under the floorboards! A TSB may have been issued on this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
18. Clicking or snapping in the front end

(Mark T. Hoops) wrote that a "clicking or
snapping noise in the front end just as braking to a full stop" could be
the left side engine support, especially in a 2.5 liter; but could also be
the strut plates, C/V joints, or loose steering rack bolts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Clunking

had a clunk in his Caravan in the front driver's
side; the dealer didn't find it, but he did. It was the bolt that tightens
around the ball joint pin. He had done a cv joint boot job and had not
tightened the bolt adequately. The ball joint pin would slip up and down
with braking, bumps, whatever. He tightened it up and the problem went
away.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
20. Knocking/metallic clanking

From: (gary cristadoro) writes: A constant
knocking/metallic clanking which increased with engine rpms and got louder
with engine speed on a Jeep turned out to be the vibration dampener
(harmonic balancer) bolted to the driveshaft. It drives via belt all
accessories. You can visually inspect the rubber insulator between the yoke
and counterbalance pulley; if a severe shift has taken place (the two parts
are misaligned and protrude), the fan belt is not aligned with other
pulleys.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
21. Drive belt squeal

Frank E. Tressler Jr. fixed his 1991 Dodge Shadow's (2.2) belt squeal by
removing the washer between the alternator pulley and the alternator. The
washer or shim was approximately 1/8" to 1/16" thick.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
22. Inexplicable chime

B. Bennett pointed out that minivans (possibly other vehicles) may
automatically sound a chime when the turn signal has been left on. This
might come up on long highway ramps. It was part of the Family Value
Package in 1991, maybe others.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Temperature stuff

Index:

1. Temperature gauge swings
8. Heater isn't working right (front wheel drive cars)
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
38. Temperature gauge problems
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / coolant loss /
car runs hot / no heat / other coolant shenanigans --
Tom Johnson may help you to prevent $$ problems!
62. Air conditioner (a/c) ineffective OR cycles too often
65. No heat - minivans, maybe others


1. Temperature gauge swings

From: "Frank E. Tressler Jr." >

Problem: Sundance thermometer swings back and forth. Repair attemps include
replacing the thermostat and both engine temperature sensors. Test the fix
by keeping the temp control on RECIRC and seeing if th gauge stays at a
constant level. If so, check the hose going to from the thermostat housing
to the heater core - it goes through a plastic bypass valve just before
entering the heater core. The hoses on the valve turned out to have been
switched at a prior servicing.

Note that on many cars minor swings are normal during warm-up because the
computer allows small amounts of warm antifreeze into the heater to provide
some early heat while letting the engine warm up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. Heater problems:

() had poor heat in his Lancer.
The temperature regulator door was not sealing well in HOT, letting cold
air bypass the heater core. He stuffed a 4-5mm by 12 cm piece of foam
in, closed the door on it, and unhooked the cable until Spring to keep
it in place.

If your radiator cap leaks or the hose to the CRS bottle leaks the
vacuum will be lost and it won't suck the juice back in. Blow on the
bottle to see.

Dennis Lippert notes: The temperature gauge will swing back and forth
until the entire system is warmed fully. This is because you keep
introducing "cold" coolant from the radiator into the engine, rapidly
cooling it. WHen the temp falls enough, the thermostat closes, and the
temp goes back up, repeating the cycle. This is due to a valve which
lets you get heat before the thermostat opens up. It keeps the warm
coolant in the engine *and heater* when the thermostat was closed.

Peter Galambos related: Fixed by flushing the system with oxalic(sp?)
acid (i.e. Prestone Super Flush). Now the heater works great and the
engine temperature changes much less. There was probably a restriction
even though the antifreeze looked fine; a lot of rust flowed out when
flushing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Air blows through the wrong vents

Problem: under acceleration, air comes through the defroster vents
instead of the vents it's supposed to come through. Reason: a valve that
sits in a vacuum line went bad. That valve leads to a vacuum reserve
tank, and the tank either wasn't forming a vacuum or the vacuum in the
tank couldn't get out. (The reserve tank may also have gone bad, or
there may be a leak in the system). (Lloyd R. Parker)

Dan Stern noted there is a Chrysler TSB on this (24-06-92), which for
all but AB-bodies recommends replacing the vacuum check valve with one that
contains a reserve tank - part 4677204. (AB bodies use this check valve and
a couple of extra parts). Dan said this fix worked on his 1962 Valiant!

On many vehicles, this comes out of a vacuum hose which branches off the
power brake booster; it may look like a film canister or a small funnel. On
the Shadow/Sundance, it is underneath the dashboard and looks like a film
canister. This part is right on top and easy to replace. There is a
replacement check valve sold by Help! in auto parts stores but it does not
contain the reserve tank.

On my own 1991 Spirit, the rubber piece which the canister connects to was
also loose, leaking vacuum. ALL vacuum leaks are bad!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up

There is a check valve to correct washer nozzle freeze ups (which dealers
may not acknowledge). (Jim Hoare)

In case of emergency, e.g. being stuck on the Interstate, you could add
rubbing alcohol to the solution, but this is not a good permanent solution
because it will not last. I found that using a higher quality wiper fluid
does solve the problem.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
38. Temperature gauge problems

Robert Rowe: With the ignition on, ground the wire coming of the
sending unit momentarily while the enging is warm. If the gauge moves to
the correct temp, the sender is at fault. Do not ground for a long
period of time as this can damage the gauge.

Peter Galambos: Temperature gauge would suddenly jump to 3/4 or almost
full scale for a few seconds and then drop back to center. I hooked a
voltmeter to the temperature sender input to the body computer and
actually saw nice linear voltage swings. It appears
that the gauge is designed to go super non-linear above a certain
temperature. I disconnected the radiator fan long enough to verify that
it was thermostat cycling causing the temperature swing and replaced the
thermostat and antifreeze.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / poor temp regulation

The clamp on the hose to the overflow bottle wasn't tight enough; it had
loosened during recent pressure-checking of the cooling system. --
Louise Penberthy

Ross Gunn heard air (exhaust) bubbling back through the coolant overflow
bottle and had to replace the head gasket was the solution. The dealer
estimated $500; Ross did it himself for under $100.

I managed to trace a slow coolant leak to the point near the firewall
where rubber coolant hoses are clamped to the metal ends of the heater
core tubes. Tightening the clamps a few turns ended the problem. I
probably never would've discovered the culprit had I not noticed that
a nearby cable had an odd green-ish tint. -- Roger Fradenburgh

The 2.2/2.5 liter cooling systems *MUST* be purged of air before
operation; otherwise, coolant flow blockage will result (i.e., hot,
possibly REALLY hot, engine). Partial purging will
cause the engine to run hotter than normal; the temperature
will gradually drop to normal as the system purges itself over
several days/weeks. These engines' cooling systems can be purged
easily by parking the car on an incline (front much higher than
rear) and cycling the engine on/off until the thermostat opens and the
air is expelled into the radiator. The proper way is to use the bleed
screw in the thermostat's housing...on some engines (like my 2.5) this
screw is frozen in place because of lack of use; hence, the heat
soaking of the thermostat's housing. -- Bohdan Bodnar (note:
letting it "purge itself" may lead to negative consequences).

Sometimes you can fry your brand new thermostat if you don't
burp it properly. I would always just crank the heat,
leave the radiator cap off, and start the car to purge the
cooling system. -- Terry L. Howe

We just went through this with my neighbors 3.0L Voyager. He complained
of white smoke in the exhaust, we found oil in the water and vice versa.
The dealer told him $1,000 to replace head gasket; we spent under $300.
We also replaced the timing belt, water pump, plugs & wires, etc while
we were there--the parts weren't expensive. We also replaced the
speedo cable as the best way to get at it was when the heads were off.
The new gaskets solved his problem, and he has more power.
--
***
If the cooling system is low on water, the highest parts of the engine
tend to overheat, causing the head to warp and the head gasket to blow
out through the gaps left by the warping. Plymouth Reliants have
temperature gauges and show a high reading within a few minutes of
starting the engine IF it is low on coolant.

If the heater/defroster fan doesn't blow toasty warm when the engine is
hot, you are probably low on coolant. or have to bleed the system more.
It helps to park the car on a grade (front end high), turn the heater
temperature control up all the way, and idle the engine with the
radiator cap off. Then, fill the cooling system. [Use distilled water
- about fiftey cents a gallon from the supermarket] (Tom Johnson)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
62. Air conditioner ineffective OR cycles too often

Jim Zimmerman says: Short cycling [the a/c unit going on and off every
five or ten seconds) would allow it to cool, but not very well. An
independent shop immediately found that the first shop put on a
defective expansion valve in their attempt to repair it. Also, the low
pressure switch was bad. Mine would only act up intermittently. One day
it would cool just fine, the next day it would short cycle again.
--------------------------------------------
65. No heat

Daniel Thomas writes:
[Dealers tried] everything from flushing out the cooling system,
replacing thermostat, replacing heater core, replacing blower motor,
etc. The REAL cause of the problem turned out to be the "automatic
ajjustment" cable on the hot air door. This is the door which allows
the incoming air to go across the heater core to provide heat into the
interior of the van. The damn thing had misadjusted itself a number of
times. The service manuals recommend a way to adjust the door to work
correctly but it isn't always successful even when it appears to be done
correctly. The door must be opened wider than the recommendation
implies then the heat lever is forced to the cold position. This
automaticially readjusts the cable connection to allow the door to open
wider which forces more (all) cold air across the heater core. The
secret is in the adjustment and almost going by the book. I have
personally been successful in fixing a number of vans that didn't give
out enough heat. The job is easy once you figure it out.
--------------------------------------------
--