On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

(Tim O) wrote:
>
>> The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.
>
>There are some folk on iRacing saying it's pretty satisfying.. others saying it's
>cr*p. That's a bit puzzling. But then this genre, where so much is down to a
>cocktail of personal preference and hardware, has always been a bit like that. One
>man's meat is another man's murder.
>
>One thing which particularly intrigues me though are the (iRacing based) comments
>about the AI. Some are saying it's terrible, many that it's on a par with most
>other sim AI... ie not perfect, but acceptable.
>
>That leads me to think about why the quality of the driving on iRacing can be so
>variable. Perhaps those with a sim background are used to taking evasive action to
>avoid weak AI, and therefore better able to deal with the problems caused by
>erratic real drivers? And there are certainly plenty of those on iRacing, as well
>as plenty of decent drivers.
>
>Maybe that's why I've always found it easy to keep my SR up, because I am *always*
>expecting the guy in front to do something stupid. :-)
>
>> but if you're going to spend all that for what you think is a
>> great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty disappointed.
>
>Well, I've spent roughly $750 at iRacing and ended up, overall, pretty disappointed.
>Every time something great comes along (like the MX-5) it's counterbalanced by an
>annoyance (like the MX-5 only racing at Lime Rock or Laguna). So if I end up
>spending another $400 (allowing for the exchange rate) on a PS3+GT5 at least I'll
>be able to sell the PS3 afterwards for at least 50%.
>
>There's no second-hand market on iRacing... though I've always felt that this would
>be a great way of spreading out the participation on the service. Unpopular cars
>would become cheap, and cheap cars would get bought simply because they're cheap,
>and therefore participation in those series goes up. :-)
>
>Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on GT5. As ever, being patient will probably pay
>dividends. There are plenty of planned updated for GT%, from what I read, and I
>have until the end of January to line up things to fill the gap in my schedule left
>by iRacing. By then there may be some kind of rF2 release, which ought to keep us
>all busy (if only arguing ;-) for a while. I remain sceptical about that though. It
>doesn't "feel" like it's ready to me.
>
>Andrew McP

Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing
line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves.

Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line.
Wait, thats the same as the good right?

Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
realism and exposing its mannequins face.

Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find
that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things.

This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover
for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact
that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and
bash your way to victory.

The true GT5 apologists always react the same when you present them
with these hard truths... "You're not supposed to drive that way".

Well yea, but its a blinders mentality to me. As someone who has
played sims since Indy 500: The Simulation by Papyrus, if I DO drive
that way, I want my car to be a steaming, immovable hunk by the side
of the road.

Here is an example of where it falls apart during a race... I make a
clean but tight pass on the AI in a Challenge. Since the AI is mostly
oblivious to me, it simply rams me. My pass was clean, and this
brake-check in many sims would either result in the AI braking, or
hitting you but the race continuing if the damage was light and you
didn't get spun.

In GT5, thats a disqualification. You didn't even hit the AI, it hit
you. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THAT WAY!

Actually, now I'm hoping you buy it, because I'd love to read your
thoughts on it.