"John S." wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > "Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
> > >
> > > They're still in business because nobody *ever* lost money marketing to
> > > ignorant idiots and gullible fools. Since there are so many of both, it's
> > > a large market. Since logic and science haven't been effectively taught in
> > > the US for several decades now, it's also a growth market.
> >
> > Two absolutely true educational horrors from a friend of mine who is a
> > technology teacher currently at a "magnet" school for talented / gifted
> > students.
> >
> > Horror #1: One student had absolutely no idea how to use a ruler. This
> > was a teenager too, not a 5yr old.
>
> That is apalling - his parents should have taught that basic household
> skill.

I thought you learned how to use a ruler in the 1st grade at the latest.

>
> >
> > Horror #2: A group of students in an intro robotics class was given a
> > socket wrench set to use in the assembly of components. Not a single
> > student in the group knew how to use a socket wrench.
>
> Not surprising given the way that shop and other trade related courses
> are taught in classrooms away from the main high school campus for
> potential dropouts and other problem students. Most kids are actively
> discouraged from shop classes when many of those skills would be very
> useful in daily life. Not to mention a career.

Absolutely inexcusable the way schools try to steer kids away from
skills / careers that are not "in". Many kids would would otherwise have
a very rewarding career end up pushed towards something they don't like,
aren't good at and may ultimately fail at.

As for socket wrenches, not only is it the loss of shop class in the
schools, it's also the lack of those skills in their parents. It used to
be that your dad would change the oil on the family cars and do other
basic maintenance and you'd pick up some of the mechanical skills that
way. Now most of the parents don't even know how to check the oil in
their car, much less change it.

>
> Much as I hate to start a discussion like this, when I was in high
> school, boys were encouraged to take some shop classes even if they
> were college bound. I'm proud to say I took at least one semester of
> every shop class and went a lot further in auto and machine shop. It
> meant some summer school, but it was worth it imho.

I'm probably a bit younger, but not that much as shop class did still
exist when I was in school. Unfortunately I never really had the
opportunity to take shop class as I was fairly talented in other areas
and was somewhat steered in that direction. Fortunately though I was
never one to yield to any kind of pressure (peer, parent, teacher, etc.)
so that didn't stop my interest in things mechanical.

My father although I didn't get along with him very well, worked at Colt
Firearms doing machining / setup for machine operators so I was able to
get some machining exposure that way. I've since built up a halfway
decent shop myself and treat every project / repair opportunity as an
excuse to add more tools. I've taken a few evening classes at local tech
schools to add to / improve my skills in various areas and enjoyed them
quite a bit.

My feeling is that all students regardless of sex, need to take both a
shop type class and a home-ec. type class as skills in both those areas
seem to be desperately needed today.

>
> >
> > With "talented and gifted" students like that the future of this country
> > is very bleak...
>
> Someone is gonna pick up those jobs, but I really dislike the
> condescending attitude of many teachers and school administrators
> towards trade related schooling. A good automotive tech is highly
> skilled and trained person these days.

Absolutely and we seem to be importing people to do those jobs. A good
automotive tech is indeed highly skilled and trained and they sure seem
to be in short supply based on what I've seen in a number of car dealer
and other commercial shops. Examples such as the tech who forgot to put
the bolts back in the center bearing carrier on the drive shaft on my
truck after clutch work, or the folks at two different tire places who
didn't comprehend hub piloted wheels or torquing sequences and put
wheels on my truck crooked.

Pete C.