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1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 20th 06, 04:35 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
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Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

>Bosch plugs are crap. If you have one of their universal fit, splice in, POS O2
>sensors, throw that away too.


As I said, the plugs have been replaced 4 times. O2 sensor no, but
that's been tested several times.

>Has anyone verified a problem with any of the parts you replaced, or are we
>using the shotgun approach?


There have been 3 master mechanics working on this issue. It is
currently in the hands of a master tech who specializes in electrical
problems and trains techs across the country in troubleshooting.

>Has the check engine light problem been resolved? If not, you need to start
>there, since it indicates a problem with the PCM grounds, power feeds or the PCM
>it's self.


As I stated, the PCM has been replaced already (once). That resolved
the check engine light.

>First, MDS doesn't even exist anymore. Second, even if it did, it wouldn't do
>you any good. You need somebody who knows what he's doing to diagnose it.


Again, it's been in the hands of three (maybe more) master techs,
including one who is a master with the MDS. That was a specific
request made to Crysler.

>1) Take it to somebody who knows what he's doing.


Been there, doing that... at least the best I am told is around here.
Ads
  #12  
Old August 20th 06, 04:38 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
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Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

Lon > hacked up a hairball and the stain left
behind looked like this:

>After swapping to Champions, add a fat ground braid between the body
>near the battery and a nice big bolt on the engine. If that doesn't do
>it, maybe the brain and or coil is just too weak to spark.


Again, the plugs have been replaced four times now and the ground
checked more than you have fingers and toes. Also, the PCM has already
been replaced once along with the coil. No change.

I'm not paying for any more replacement parts until the master
technician can tell me for certain what is the problem.
  #13  
Old August 20th 06, 04:40 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
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Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

>"DougW" was heard to say...
>
>The only sensor that can be affected by gas is the O2 sensor.
>RTV especially. I'm not sure anything but epoxy based paint
>would cause problems. Hardly anyone uses epoxy paint anyway.
>
>The rest of them are basically immune or hanging off of vac lines
>with no exposure.


Yeah, sounds right to me. I've seen how the sensors attach and found
the suggestion hard to believe, but it cannot hurt to check and ask if
anyone has heard of or run into such a problem.
  #14  
Old August 20th 06, 04:50 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
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Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

>The only CPS's 'I' am familiar with just bolt in. There are no
>spacers. I haven't seen that many though.
>
>Mike


Sorry about the wording. Spacer, shim, whatever. It's a small piece of
paper-like material they use just to install the CPS.

I didn't know there were different ones either, but the two mechanics
currently working on it showed me the difference and the one I have. I
really wish I had the other one.

I still want to know how one mechanic can say the CPS is bad and the
other says it is fine... and they are both using the same diagnostic
tools to test them. I am downright suspicious of all dealership
mechanics (past bad experiences at dealerships) that he really is just
surmising that is the problem from experience, but /shrug. It's been
replaced once already. I would think master techs know how to put one
in and not damamge it (or anything else).

Truthfully, right now I really don't care about anything except
someone fixing it. I've already reached my limit on patience with the
pointing fingers and no resolution. Either I get it back working the
end of this month, or the insurance company of the guy who hit me is
going to have to replace it. Otherwise I am starting by camping out on
the insurance co's front lawn with nasty signs and going from there.
  #15  
Old August 20th 06, 05:37 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
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Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

Just to clarify things up a bit (I hope)...

For the check engine light problem, the PCM (main computer). Aside
from not running the pre-start process, it was preventing voltage from
going to the fuel pump.

A smashed connector in lift gate was replaced. The tailgate tamper
circuit was spiked by a short to a power circuit which required the
replacement of the theft module but the jeep would still not start
until the replacement of the PCM.

The crank position sensor (CPS) was replaced (once). I was informed it
was found bad during the process of troubleshooting and before
replacement of the PCM.

The sparks plugs have been replaced four (4) times now in total for
fouling. Bosch plugs were only used once and the jeep only drove about
12-15 miles total on them before being removed. *You can smell fuel
after several attempts (cranks) to start.

The ground(s) have been checked by four (4) different mechanics and
determined to be fine. Wires starting from battery and continuing till
end have been checked and cleaned.

The coil has been replaced when it was thought the spark voltage
"might" have been low. No change in problem.

She is still sitting in the shop with several different diagnostic
tools wired to her looking for anything leading to the problem.

If you want to know about the mechanic, check this out...
http://www.currentprobe.com/currentprobe3.html

And here is something he designed...
http://www.currentprobe.com/

So far Jeff appears to me as a very honest guy who is a very
knowledgeable master technician and mechanic. He has given me no
reason to suspect otherwias and has been both helpful and diligent in
working to resolve my jeep's problem(s).

`Casper
  #16  
Old August 20th 06, 06:29 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Dick[_1_]
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Posts: 125
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

I have to agree with Mike. There is nothing in the service manual
about any shim or spacer under the CPS. Neither is anything included
with a new CPS that looks like that. I have one sitting in front of
me. I'm curious about the two, different CPS units the mechanics
showed you. My '93 ZJ V-8 was one of the first produced in 1992. It
has the 2-bolt type as shown in the service manual. The Mopar No. for
this CPS is 1-56026701.

Dick



On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:50:15 GMT, Casper > wrote:

>>The only CPS's 'I' am familiar with just bolt in. There are no
>>spacers. I haven't seen that many though.
>>
>>Mike

>
>Sorry about the wording. Spacer, shim, whatever. It's a small piece of
>paper-like material they use just to install the CPS.
>
>I didn't know there were different ones either, but the two mechanics
>currently working on it showed me the difference and the one I have. I
>really wish I had the other one.
>
>I still want to know how one mechanic can say the CPS is bad and the
>other says it is fine... and they are both using the same diagnostic
>tools to test them. I am downright suspicious of all dealership
>mechanics (past bad experiences at dealerships) that he really is just
>surmising that is the problem from experience, but /shrug. It's been
>replaced once already. I would think master techs know how to put one
>in and not damamge it (or anything else).
>
>Truthfully, right now I really don't care about anything except
>someone fixing it. I've already reached my limit on patience with the
>pointing fingers and no resolution. Either I get it back working the
>end of this month, or the insurance company of the guy who hit me is
>going to have to replace it. Otherwise I am starting by camping out on
>the insurance co's front lawn with nasty signs and going from there.


  #17  
Old August 20th 06, 07:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
DougW
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Posts: 911
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

Dick wrote:
> I have to agree with Mike. There is nothing in the service manual
> about any shim or spacer under the CPS. Neither is anything included
> with a new CPS that looks like that. I have one sitting in front of
> me. I'm curious about the two, different CPS units the mechanics
> showed you. My '93 ZJ V-8 was one of the first produced in 1992. It
> has the 2-bolt type as shown in the service manual. The Mopar No. for
> this CPS is 1-56026701.


On the 93 production year there were two (possibly three) different
transmissions and two different CPS sensors. 92 1/2 or early 93
production run and the 93. Mine is a mix of 93/4 parts and a pain
in the ass to order parts for.

http://revbeergoggles.com/cps/
http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diag...tml#CPSdetails

The original on-hole CPS sensor doesn't actually have a hole
in so much as it has a slot. On the original sensor there is
a cardboard bit glued to the end. You just slide it in till
the spacer hits then tighten it down. The spacer then erodes.

They did away with that sensor/spacer sometime in 94 and replaced it
with a fixed hole in about the same location as the old sensor
was fitted. Guess they improved the sensor or decided the gap
was not too critical.

--
DougW


  #18  
Old August 20th 06, 07:28 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Dick[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 125
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:06:42 -0500, "DougW"
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>> I have to agree with Mike. There is nothing in the service manual
>> about any shim or spacer under the CPS. Neither is anything included
>> with a new CPS that looks like that. I have one sitting in front of
>> me. I'm curious about the two, different CPS units the mechanics
>> showed you. My '93 ZJ V-8 was one of the first produced in 1992. It
>> has the 2-bolt type as shown in the service manual. The Mopar No. for
>> this CPS is 1-56026701.

>
>On the 93 production year there were two (possibly three) different
>transmissions and two different CPS sensors. 92 1/2 or early 93
>production run and the 93. Mine is a mix of 93/4 parts and a pain
>in the ass to order parts for.
>
>http://revbeergoggles.com/cps/
>http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diag...tml#CPSdetails
>
>The original on-hole CPS sensor doesn't actually have a hole
>in so much as it has a slot. On the original sensor there is
>a cardboard bit glued to the end. You just slide it in till
>the spacer hits then tighten it down. The spacer then erodes.
>
>They did away with that sensor/spacer sometime in 94 and replaced it
>with a fixed hole in about the same location as the old sensor
>was fitted. Guess they improved the sensor or decided the gap
>was not too critical.


I'm getting the idea that we are discussing the 4.0 engine, and not
the V-8.

Dick
  #19  
Old August 20th 06, 07:59 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Casper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

>I'm getting the idea that we are discussing the 4.0 engine, and not
>the V-8.
>
>Dick


Correct. 4.0L inline 6 cylinder.
  #20  
Old August 21st 06, 05:31 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
bllsht[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default 1993 GC Limited - I Miss My Jeep!!

In message >, "Casper" wrote:

>Just to clarify things up a bit (I hope)...
>
>For the check engine light problem, the PCM (main computer). Aside
>from not running the pre-start process, it was preventing voltage from
>going to the fuel pump.
>
>A smashed connector in lift gate was replaced. The tailgate tamper
>circuit was spiked by a short to a power circuit which required the
>replacement of the theft module but the jeep would still not start
>until the replacement of the PCM.
>
>The crank position sensor (CPS) was replaced (once). I was informed it
>was found bad during the process of troubleshooting and before
>replacement of the PCM.
>
>The sparks plugs have been replaced four (4) times now in total for
>fouling. Bosch plugs were only used once and the jeep only drove about
>12-15 miles total on them before being removed. *You can smell fuel
>after several attempts (cranks) to start.
>
>The ground(s) have been checked by four (4) different mechanics and
>determined to be fine. Wires starting from battery and continuing till
>end have been checked and cleaned.
>
>The coil has been replaced when it was thought the spark voltage
>"might" have been low. No change in problem.
>
>She is still sitting in the shop with several different diagnostic
>tools wired to her looking for anything leading to the problem.
>
>If you want to know about the mechanic, check this out...
>http://www.currentprobe.com/currentprobe3.html


Not to take anything from your mechanic, but it looks like he's had mostly GM
training, and probably has mostly GM experience. You may be better off with
somebody who is experienced with the Chrysler systems. Being familiar with a
system is a big advantage.

>
>And here is something he designed...
>http://www.currentprobe.com/


He designed a current probe? Any decent automotive lab scope kit will come with
one of those, and they're not $400.

Again, he may be good, but this problem has been going on for quite a while now
with no fix in sight.

Does he have a DRB?


>
>So far Jeff appears to me as a very honest guy who is a very
>knowledgeable master technician and mechanic. He has given me no
>reason to suspect otherwias and has been both helpful and diligent in
>working to resolve my jeep's problem(s).
>
>`Casper

 




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