cold start sluggishness

I know a few other folks have posted other cold-related issues and
received lost of responses, but none seemed to match quite right.

86 cj7 258, carter bbd, nutter bypass

I am trying to figure out if there could be a relationship between a
very loud whistling (a vacuum leak I haven't found yet) and some
serious sluggishness while the engine is cold. It was 15 or 18 degrees
this morning (-10C) and it exhibited the typical symptoms. Starts and
idles perfectly and in fact runs great for the first 2-3 minutes. Then
the whistling starts and with the whistling comes a huge bogging issue
under any load at all. I believe the only delayed vacuum line should
be the thermal vacuum switch that purges the canister and controls the
EGR. I know it is not the EGR as it blocked off. Anyone else hearing
something familiar or following the train of thought here? Could a
vacuum leak cause a serious bogging issue until warm and then go away?.

Would love to hear any thoughts or ideas on this.

Thanks

What do you mean the EGR is "blocked off"... EGR system is fairly
crucial, disconnecting it can cause a lot of problems. I've never
tried it though, so I don't know what happens when you do... quick look
at the haynes troubleshooting section under "Engine Lacks Power"...
suggestion #10 there is "EGR system not functioning properly." Hook
the EGR system up the way it's supposed to be and see what happens.

Deano wrote:
> I know a few other folks have posted other cold-related issues and
> received lost of responses, but none seemed to match quite right.
>
> 86 cj7 258, carter bbd, nutter bypass
>
> I am trying to figure out if there could be a relationship between a
> very loud whistling (a vacuum leak I haven't found yet) and some
> serious sluggishness while the engine is cold. It was 15 or 18 degrees
> this morning (-10C) and it exhibited the typical symptoms. Starts and
> idles perfectly and in fact runs great for the first 2-3 minutes. Then
> the whistling starts and with the whistling comes a huge bogging issue
> under any load at all. I believe the only delayed vacuum line should
> be the thermal vacuum switch that purges the canister and controls the
> EGR. I know it is not the EGR as it blocked off. Anyone else hearing
> something familiar or following the train of thought here? Could a
> vacuum leak cause a serious bogging issue until warm and then go away?.
>
> Would love to hear any thoughts or ideas on this.
>
> Thanks

I think I would first be looking at the air filter flaps and their
controls or vacuum lines for a leak. These are active on a cold
engine. The EGR even has a thermostat inside the air filter.

Second I would be checking the carb's base screws to be sure the carb is
bolted down tight.

Third I would be looking really close at the choke vacuum pull off
valve. It is on the back corner of the carb with a vacuum line running
to it. I would want to make sure it isn't leaking.

You can carefully spray some carb cleaner or WD40 along the carb base
and along the intake manifold gasket to check for leaks. If the engine
rumbles when you spray, you have a leak.

Besides the noise, your carb sounds like the typical automatic choke
issue. The thing is on a bimetal spring timer that doesn't care how
warm the engine actually is so when the engine is half way warm, the
choke is open too much so it bogs like mad. You have to feather the gas
pedal up and down to keep it running under load and 2 foot drive them.
You 'can' adjust the choke for how rich it runs until it opens by
loosening the three screws on the cover and turning it. It has indexing
lines on it. Unless the carb number is 8349 or 8351, it should be 1
notch rich. Or you can go manual choke easily.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Deano wrote:
>
> I know a few other folks have posted other cold-related issues and
> received lost of responses, but none seemed to match quite right.
>
> 86 cj7 258, carter bbd, nutter bypass
>
> I am trying to figure out if there could be a relationship between a
> very loud whistling (a vacuum leak I haven't found yet) and some
> serious sluggishness while the engine is cold. It was 15 or 18 degrees
> this morning (-10C) and it exhibited the typical symptoms. Starts and
> idles perfectly and in fact runs great for the first 2-3 minutes. Then
> the whistling starts and with the whistling comes a huge bogging issue
> under any load at all. I believe the only delayed vacuum line should
> be the thermal vacuum switch that purges the canister and controls the
> EGR. I know it is not the EGR as it blocked off. Anyone else hearing
> something familiar or following the train of thought here? Could a
> vacuum leak cause a serious bogging issue until warm and then go away?.
>
> Would love to hear any thoughts or ideas on this.
>
> Thanks

Blocking off the Exhaust Gases Recirculation valve, isn't really a
bad idea, I use a plug hidden inside the vacuum hose and a plate under
the valves. Upon inspection it just must look as though it works, it
isn't actually tested: http://www.billhughes.com/smog.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Micah wrote:
>
> What do you mean the EGR is "blocked off"... EGR system is fairly
> crucial, disconnecting it can cause a lot of problems. I've never
> tried it though, so I don't know what happens when you do... quick look
> at the haynes troubleshooting section under "Engine Lacks Power"...
> suggestion #10 there is "EGR system not functioning properly." Hook
> the EGR system up the way it's supposed to be and see what happens.

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:

> Blocking off the Exhaust Gases Recirculation valve, isn't really a
> bad idea, I use a plug hidden inside the vacuum hose and a plate under
> the valves. Upon inspection it just must look as though it works, it

I used to do this back in the 70's and 80's too. I figured that
sticking it to The Man was a good thing, and that if it ran better, what
the hell.

Fact is, every engine I ever did that to (that was carburated) ended up
running too rich. It ran better, but too rich. I rejetted an old 318
Dodge motor that I'd de-EGR'ed, and it was better, but then when the
Smog Nazi hooked up a vacuum tester to the EGR and discovered my
handiwork, it cost me $50 bucks to undo the thing, rejet and retest.
Bleh. Big hassle.

Doing this on an OBD-II controlled motor will set codes and make your
dash light up like a Christmas tree. You can still get away with it on
an OBD-I motor that is fuel injected without a problem, but just
remember to undo it when the time comes.

EGR valves are old-school. You'd think that by now, they'd be
unnessasary; creating a deliberate exhaust gas leak into the intake is
like throwing a wet blanket on a fire.

Now you have me thinking about installing a 'block-off' gasket on the TJ
just to see if it would run better and get better mileage. A block-off
wouldn't set a code (shouldn't?), and it won't run rich either.

I'll get back to you on all this...

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:15:59 -0800, L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:

> Blocking off the Exhaust Gases Recirculation valve, isn't really a
> bad idea, I use a plug hidden inside the vacuum hose and a plate under
> the valves. Upon inspection it just must look as though it works, it
> isn't actually tested: http://www.billhughes.com/smog.jpg
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
> http://www.billhughes.com/ http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Micah wrote:
>>
>> What do you mean the EGR is "blocked off"... EGR system is fairly
>> crucial, disconnecting it can cause a lot of problems. I've never
>> tried it though, so I don't know what happens when you do... quick look
>> at the haynes troubleshooting section under "Engine Lacks Power"...
>> suggestion #10 there is "EGR system not functioning properly." Hook
>> the EGR system up the way it's supposed to be and see what happens.


Both Conspiring and Counseling to commit a crime. Interesting.

Suborning a criminal act. Fascinating.

Posting it on Usenet. PRICELESS!!



And this now goes somewhere else; they'll love it.

There you go again, the jealous, really jealous, I can't believe
how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic psychopath
liar is, in Vancouver who's only way to get attention is to make a fool
of it's self. With an obsession the other perverts here. With extreme
jealous ranting over the documents/possessions proving I'm an American
man. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with it's
senseless barking, me too, me too. And the poor thing, you're too
girlie to take responsibility for yourself again, by signing your
statement like a man.
You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same
paragraph it fits so well!
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

§qu@r3 Wh33£s wrote:
><snip queer fantasies over my body, and the jealous senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 05:05:59 GMT, §qu@r3 Wh33£s > in an
all out fatal attempt to prove worthiness wrote:

:>Here's a good one to report!
:>
:>
:>Both Conspiring and Counseling to commit a crime. Interesting.
:>
:>Suborning a criminal act. Fascinating.
:>
:>Posting it on Usenet. PRICELESS!!
:>
:>
:>And this now goes somewhere else; they'll love it.
:>
:>
Isn't it funny coming from a Pig Boy who never lies, is a Minute Maid
vigilante, a war hero who never fired a shot at the enemy, a service
station owner who never ripped off a customer, a race driver who never
cheated, one who owned many Harley's & every automobile that is to his
liking. + + + + + +
How will Lard Pig Boy slither out from under this one?
Mail sent priority one!

24Bit®

There you go again, the jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that
I once own a '37 Lasalle, what a jealous little draft dodging senile
coward from Gulf Breeze, Florida, who's only way to get attention is to
make a fool of it's self. With this goat obsession/fetish you have. Like
when the other kids laughed at it's attempt to use foul language in
elementary school play grounds, but just gibberish. Too senile to
remember what he last wrote. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a
Mexican Chiwawa with it's senseless barking, me too, me too. And as
usually afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as
any man would.
Again you don't even have the fortitude to sign your lies, what
coward!
You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same
paragraph it fits so well!
But now worth the time to forward this low life to:
and to cox,net to nail 4ax.com (databasix.com)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

"24Bit®" wrote:
><snip jealous senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:02:38 -0800, "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III"
> in an all out fatal attempt to prove worthiness wrote:

Was your illustrious name attached somewhere to this post Cheap Trick?