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We Needed A Big Gas Tax
Read the following article. Makes you wonder why our government didn't
really tax the hell out of fuel during the 90's and use the proceeds to lower other taxes or to fund quality programs. --- At nearly $3 a gallon, gasoline prices have become a nightmare for many Michigan consumers in recent days. But not everyone is ready to start boycotting gas stations. In fact, some residents are far less concerned about the current levels than people who experienced problems such as gas rationing that arose following the oil shocks of the 1970s. "Higher gas prices don't affect me in terms of what I do or where I go," said Curtis Foreman, owner of Foreman Construction LLC in Oak Park. The 34-year-old Foreman, who spends several hours a day on the road for work, has a Ford F-150 and a Ford F-250 Turbo Diesel he uses for work that he fills up regularly. But gas isn't something he worries about too much. And he's not alone. Experts agree that the U.S. economy is far less susceptible to energy shocks, particularly sharp increases in crude oil prices, than it was two decades ago. The advent of fuel economy standards that promote more efficient vehicles that get better gas mileage has helped to temper energy consumption. Even though retail gasoline prices give a lot of people sticker shock, the impact of higher fuel costs is less than it was for a growing number of households and businesses. "I don't even know what gas costs now," Foreman said Friday. "I just paid $75 to fill up one of my trucks, but I don't remember what it cost a gallon. For me, it's the cost of doing business." For the record, regular gasoline is averaging $2.72 a gallon, while diesel fuel costs $2.65 a gallon throughout the state, AAA Michigan reports. The new reality has some economists questioning some old assumptions about the nation's economy. "The basic theme is that the U.S. economy is less sensitive to energy costs than 20 or 30 years ago. We're not independent of energy. We're just less sensitive," said John Silvia, chief economist of Wachovia Securities in Charlotte, N.C. "Why hasn't consumption fallen off? When the price of energy goes up, it does cut into household budgets, but it's less of a cut than 20 years ago, given that incomes have almost tripled since the 1982." For example, American consumers spent a total of about $95 billion for gasoline and other petroleum products in 1984. Last year, that figure jumped to $230.4 billion, or 142% higher. But workers saw their income shoot up 196% from $2.26 trillion to $6.69 trillion last year, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. "Looking over the last 20 years it's clear that incomes have grown faster than the price of energy," said Jay Wortley, senior economist with Michigan's Senate Fiscal Agency in Lansing. "But that's not to say that this recent run-up isn't painful." To be sure, many Michigan workers and consumers whose incomes have not kept up with rising energy prices are feeling the pain. The Michigan manufacturing sector, particularly autos, has caught the brunt of higher petroleum prices. The state's unemployment rate of 7% is one of the highest in the country. Higher petroleum costs also have helped push some auto suppliers into bankruptcy and limited hiring in some delivery businesses. And with global uncertainty pumping fear into the markets, price volatility remains a key part of Michigan's energy equation. In fact, crude oil jumped $2.08 to settle at $65.35 per 42-gallon barrel Friday after a week of declines, following a refinery fire in Venezuela and an oil protest in Ecuador. Nevertheless, some Michiganders, while expressing some frustration about pump prices, don't seem as outraged as one might expect if there were a shortage of oil and gasoline. Michelle Marrs, who recently pumped in $61 of premium gasoline at $2.98 a gallon to fill up her 2003 Land Rover at a Meijer station at 8 Mile and Haggerty in Novi, seemed pragmatic about rising fuel prices. The Ann Arbor attorney is on the road constantly. But given that she's part of a successful law firm, gas prices aren't as high on her list of priorities as they might be for others. "I travel a lot for work, so it almost doesn't matter for me," she said. "Now, I'd be happier if it was $2.20 or something, but what are you going to do?" --- Patrick '93 Cobra |
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On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 03:14:48 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> wrote: >Sorry Patrick, but the last thing we need to do is give the government >one more way to yank money from our wallets. They have more ways to do >it than we can count right now. They need to REDUCE the taxes they >currently have on gas. Gas tax hurts the people that can least afford >it the most. The government collects plenty of taxes. They don't need >more money, they need to make do with less. > This is a yes & no proposition. While it does in fact hurt those who can least afford it (minimum wage burger flippers in an area of no mass transit). Those whom it doesn't affect would go freakin hog crazy and stick their noses so far into the damn trough there would be nothing left. Already many who need fuel to conduct business (farmers & others) do not have to pay the taxes on fuel needed to produce certain things in our economy. Of course the Military which sucks up a tremendous amount of fuel and the US Postal Service (Number one consumer of fuel) already don't pay taxes either. Even though the prices of crude do have an impact there is also the issue of the capacity to turn raw crude into fuels. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US in about 30 years while the demand curve has steadily increased. Certain taxes on fuel are supposed to go to pay for the infrastructure to support the use of vehicles, i.e. roads & bridges. Unfortunately in many states these taxes go directly into the states general funds and never do get spent on improving the roads if the roads in my area are any indicator. Yes driving a high-performance vehicle to & from work is a royal blast. However, it simply isn't required. The major problem is no viable mass transit alternative for the majority of the country to get anywhere. I can drive the 18 miles to work in 30/40 minutes. If I was to take the bus it would be more like 2.5 hours in each direction and I still have to get to the bus stop. The answer is out there somewhere, but I doubt that anyone in the US government is going to come up with it. wrote: >> Read the following article. Makes you wonder why our government didn't >> really tax the hell out of fuel during the 90's and use the proceeds to >> lower other taxes or to fund quality programs. >> >> >> --- >> At nearly $3 a gallon, gasoline prices have become a nightmare for many >> Michigan consumers in recent days. >> >> But not everyone is ready to start boycotting gas stations. In fact, >> some residents are far less concerned about the current levels than >> people who experienced problems such as gas rationing that arose >> following the oil shocks of the 1970s. >> >> "Higher gas prices don't affect me in terms of what I do or where I >> go," said Curtis Foreman, owner of Foreman Construction LLC in Oak >> Park. >> >> The 34-year-old Foreman, who spends several hours a day on the road for >> work, has a Ford F-150 and a Ford F-250 Turbo Diesel he uses for work >> that he fills up regularly. But gas isn't something he worries about >> too much. And he's not alone. >> >> Experts agree that the U.S. economy is far less susceptible to energy >> shocks, particularly sharp increases in crude oil prices, than it was >> two decades ago. The advent of fuel economy standards that promote more >> efficient vehicles that get better gas mileage has helped to temper >> energy consumption. >> >> Even though retail gasoline prices give a lot of people sticker shock, >> the impact of higher fuel costs is less than it was for a growing >> number of households and businesses. >> >> "I don't even know what gas costs now," Foreman said Friday. "I just >> paid $75 to fill up one of my trucks, but I don't remember what it cost >> a gallon. For me, it's the cost of doing business." >> >> For the record, regular gasoline is averaging $2.72 a gallon, while >> diesel fuel costs $2.65 a gallon throughout the state, AAA Michigan >> reports. >> >> The new reality has some economists questioning some old assumptions >> about the nation's economy. >> >> "The basic theme is that the U.S. economy is less sensitive to energy >> costs than 20 or 30 years ago. We're not independent of energy. We're >> just less sensitive," said John Silvia, chief economist of Wachovia >> Securities in Charlotte, N.C. "Why hasn't consumption fallen off? When >> the price of energy goes up, it does cut into household budgets, but >> it's less of a cut than 20 years ago, given that incomes have almost >> tripled since the 1982." >> >> For example, American consumers spent a total of about $95 billion for >> gasoline and other petroleum products in 1984. Last year, that figure >> jumped to $230.4 billion, or 142% higher. But workers saw their income >> shoot up 196% from $2.26 trillion to $6.69 trillion last year, the >> Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. >> >> "Looking over the last 20 years it's clear that incomes have grown >> faster than the price of energy," said Jay Wortley, senior economist >> with Michigan's Senate Fiscal Agency in Lansing. "But that's not to say >> that this recent run-up isn't painful." >> >> To be sure, many Michigan workers and consumers whose incomes have not >> kept up with rising energy prices are feeling the pain. >> >> The Michigan manufacturing sector, particularly autos, has caught the >> brunt of higher petroleum prices. The state's unemployment rate of 7% >> is one of the highest in the country. >> >> Higher petroleum costs also have helped push some auto suppliers into >> bankruptcy and limited hiring in some delivery businesses. And with >> global uncertainty pumping fear into the markets, price volatility >> remains a key part of Michigan's energy equation. >> >> In fact, crude oil jumped $2.08 to settle at $65.35 per 42-gallon >> barrel Friday after a week of declines, following a refinery fire in >> Venezuela and an oil protest in Ecuador. >> >> Nevertheless, some Michiganders, while expressing some frustration >> about pump prices, don't seem as outraged as one might expect if there >> were a shortage of oil and gasoline. >> >> Michelle Marrs, who recently pumped in $61 of premium gasoline at $2.98 >> a gallon to fill up her 2003 Land Rover at a Meijer station at 8 Mile >> and Haggerty in Novi, seemed pragmatic about rising fuel prices. >> >> The Ann Arbor attorney is on the road constantly. But given that she's >> part of a successful law firm, gas prices aren't as high on her list of >> priorities as they might be for others. >> >> "I travel a lot for work, so it almost doesn't matter for me," she >> said. "Now, I'd be happier if it was $2.20 or something, but what are >> you going to do?" >> --- >> >> Patrick >> '93 Cobra >> -- Please Don't Steal - The Government Hates Competition ZombyWoof (take the dogs when replying via e-mail) |
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ZombyWoof wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 03:14:48 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE" > > wrote: > > >>Sorry Patrick, but the last thing we need to do is give the government >>one more way to yank money from our wallets. They have more ways to do >>it than we can count right now. They need to REDUCE the taxes they >>currently have on gas. Gas tax hurts the people that can least afford >>it the most. The government collects plenty of taxes. They don't need >>more money, they need to make do with less. >> > > This is a yes & no proposition. While it does in fact hurt those who > can least afford it (minimum wage burger flippers in an area of no > mass transit). Those whom it doesn't affect would go freakin hog > crazy and stick their noses so far into the damn trough there would be > nothing left. > > Already many who need fuel to conduct business (farmers & others) do > not have to pay the taxes on fuel needed to produce certain things in > our economy. Of course the Military which sucks up a tremendous > amount of fuel and the US Postal Service (Number one consumer of fuel) > already don't pay taxes either. > > Even though the prices of crude do have an impact there is also the > issue of the capacity to turn raw crude into fuels. There hasn't been > a new refinery built in the US in about 30 years while the demand > curve has steadily increased. > > Certain taxes on fuel are supposed to go to pay for the infrastructure > to support the use of vehicles, i.e. roads & bridges. Unfortunately > in many states these taxes go directly into the states general funds > and never do get spent on improving the roads if the roads in my area > are any indicator. > > Yes driving a high-performance vehicle to & from work is a royal > blast. However, it simply isn't required. The major problem is no > viable mass transit alternative for the majority of the country to get > anywhere. I can drive the 18 miles to work in 30/40 minutes. If I > was to take the bus it would be more like 2.5 hours in each direction > and I still have to get to the bus stop. > > The answer is out there somewhere, but I doubt that anyone in the US > government is going to come up with it. Here's a link that gives current gasoline tax rates: http://tinyurl.com/exjpg New York is probably the worst case as they charge over 50 cents a gallon in total state and federal taxes. For EVERY 18 gallon fill-up the driver in New York pays about nine dollars in taxes. At $2.50/gallon that equates to a tax rate of 20%. When gas was $1.75/gallon the tax rate was near 29%. How long do you think it will take the states and the federal governments to get the tax rate, as a percentage, back up to what they were before this last price spike happened? My guess is it won't be long. If the government wants to reduce our consumption of fuel then they should just ration gasoline and be done with it. That way we won't have them digging in our wallets so deep. Personally, I think fuel should be taxed just like any other commodity. Just apply the state's sales tax rate. Fuel tax is just another way government has found to increase revenue covertly. I don't believe these amounts per gallon tax rates are shown on the pumps. Why do you think that is so? Also, why are they included in the advertised price? If the tax was added on to the purchase like sales tax the public would be forced to know they are getting raped on gas taxes and probably wouldn't stand for it. The reason I am so passionate about lowering taxes, or at least keeping them stagnant, is that we are taxed at incredible rates when all the local, state and federal taxes are combined. Individually they don't seem so bad but add them up and most of us would be shocked. The thing is that many of these taxes are not based on income so the poor are hit disproportionately hard. Hell, state governments even pray on people through lotteries. Many of the people I see buying those tickets haven't got the income to justify such an extravagant purchase. Do you think the government cares that they are praying on the poor by offering lottery tickets? Granted, no one is forced to by a lottery ticket but I expect more from our elected leaders than to shamelessly take money from people that can't afford it. One day people will put all this together and the politicians will be held accountable at the ballot box. It is happening gradually right now. Why do you think the Republicans have retained the House, Senate and more often than not the Presidency? The biggest reason is they are the only party that is willing to cut taxes. Even they aren't doing it enough to suit most people. It is happening here where I live at the local level. People can't understand why there property taxes are sky rocketing when inflation isn't. The expenses of the local government aren't increasing 20% a year so why are their local taxes. The average person is starting to see what is being done to them from a tax standpoint. It may take a few more election cycles but I believe there will be a major shift in the public's attitude toward how they are taxed. Well, I feel better after that rant. |
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Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> >>Sorry Patrick, but the last thing we need to do is give the government > >>one more way to yank money from our wallets. They have more ways to do > >>it than we can count right now. > >>They need to REDUCE the taxes they currently have on gas. Right, then the American consumer is so darn happy with the cheap gas he responds by doing what? Well, of course, he consumes more gas which in turn drives the price, and the profits of oil-rich countries (many of which we are spending huge amounts/$Bs of dollars wagging war on or trying to control.), back up. Plus, cheap gas keeps anyone from investing in alternative fuel sources. It's a nice little cycle. And that's the main reason the oil-rich countries walk a tight-rope on prices -- high enough to make good money, but not too high to cause investment in alternatives. > >>Gas tax hurts the people that can least afford it the most. Only if the government doesn't "redistribute" those dollars in the forms of compensation -- reduction of other taxes. > >> The government collects plenty of taxes. They don't need more money, they > >> need to make do with less. Agreed. > > Even though the prices of crude do have an impact there is also the > > issue of the capacity to turn raw crude into fuels. There hasn't been > > a new refinery built in the US in about 30 years while the demand > > curve has steadily increased. That's an issue, but the bottom line is demand is growing faster than they can pump it out of the ground. > > Certain taxes on fuel are supposed to go to pay for the infrastructure > > to support the use of vehicles, i.e. roads & bridges. Unfortunately > > in many states these taxes go directly into the states general funds > > and never do get spent on improving the roads if the roads in my area > > are any indicator. The problem is we have more roads/bridges than we can take care of. A road that was a single lane ten years ago, is now probably two lanes, at least. And a two-lane road is twice as expensive to resurface. > > Yes driving a high-performance vehicle to & from work is a royal > > blast. However, it simply isn't required. The major problem is no > > viable mass transit alternative for the majority of the country to get > > anywhere. I can drive the 18 miles to work in 30/40 minutes. If I > > was to take the bus it would be more like 2.5 hours in each direction > > and I still have to get to the bus stop. There is no fix to that one. Human nature is we all want our space. And space now often means living 10+ miles from work. > > The answer is out there somewhere, but I doubt that anyone in the US > > government is going to come up with it. It's higher fuel prices by way of higher gas taxes. Think about this. If you had to pay say... an extra $1K per year for fuel, but received other tax cuts to make up the difference what would your response be? Of course, you'd find ways to cut your gas consumption, and a brainy neighbor or company would search for cheaper alternatives to oil. > If the government wants to reduce our consumption of fuel then they > should just ration gasoline and be done with it. That way we won't have > them digging in our wallets so deep. Personally, I think fuel should be > taxed just like any other commodity. Just apply the state's sales tax > rate. Drop gas prices that far and you'd breed fleets of Hummer-sized vehicles. > Fuel tax is just another way government has found to increase > revenue covertly. I don't believe these amounts per gallon tax rates > are shown on the pumps. Why do you think that is so? Also, why are > they included in the advertised price? If the tax was added on to the > purchase like sales tax the public would be forced to know they are > getting raped on gas taxes and probably wouldn't stand for it. Exactly, and then the consumer would respond to the new lower prices by doing the above. > The reason I am so passionate about lowering taxes, or at least keeping > them stagnant, is that we are taxed at incredible rates when all the > local, state and federal taxes are combined. Individually they don't > seem so bad but add them up and most of us would be shocked. The thing > is that many of these taxes are not based on income so the poor are hit > disproportionately hard. Hell, state governments even pray on people > through lotteries. Many of the people I see buying those tickets > haven't got the income to justify such an extravagant purchase. Do you > think the government cares that they are praying on the poor by offering > lottery tickets? Granted, no one is forced to by a lottery ticket but I > expect more from our elected leaders than to shamelessly take money from > people that can't afford it. Aren't they required to print the odds of winning on every ticket? If folks can't do simple math, or use simple logic, they deserve their money to be ****ed away. But let's face the facts, most want a "simple" way to fortune. > One day people will put all this together and the politicians will be > held accountable at the ballot box. It is happening gradually right > now. Why do you think the Republicans have retained the House, Senate > and more often than not the Presidency? They have big business and the religous right in their back pocket? Money + religion is tough to beat/defeat. Just ask Bin Laden. > The biggest reason is they are the only party that is willing to cut taxes. They're not cutting sh*t. They're building debt. Yeah, they give you a little tax break here and there, but they're paying for it with a check they don't have the funds for. > Even they aren't doing it enough to suit most people. It is happening here > where I live at the local level. People can't understand why there property > taxes are sky rocketing when inflation isn't. The expenses of the local > government aren't increasing 20% a year so why are their local taxes. The > average person is starting to see what is being done to them from a tax > standpoint. It may take a few more election cycles but I believe there > will be a major shift in the public's attitude toward how they are taxed. Oh, it's coming. But unfortunately the debt will still need to be paid. > Well, I feel better after that rant. Me too. Patrick '93 Cobra |
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Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> One day people will put all this together and the politicians will be > held accountable at the ballot box. It is happening gradually right > now. Why do you think the Republicans have retained the House, Senate > and more often than not the Presidency? The biggest reason is they are > the only party that is willing to cut taxes. The problem is that they cut taxes disproportionately in favor of corporations and the wealthiest few, which is exactly the wrong thing to do. Not only do we have a record deficit, but our local taxes are skyrocketing to make up for the federal cuts in state aid. Bottom line is that corporations and the wealthiest few are taxed less and the middle class is taxed more. > People can't understand why there property taxes are sky > rocketing when inflation isn't. The bu$h regime is cutting federal aid to states to help fund obscene tax cuts for the elite and it's war profiteering in Iraq. The tax cuts and corporate welfare handouts have to be covered by increases local taxes. Meanwhile jobs are leaving, wages are stagnant, and health care costs are skyrocketing... http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0416-08.htm http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0407-01.htm http://responsiblewealth.org/ - Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21 http://www.commondreams.org/ http://www.truthout.org/ http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/ http://thirdworldtraveler.com/ http://counterpunch.org/ http://responsiblewealth.org/ http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media. McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion" and "It's not true." Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies. "They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of warfare or morality." -bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq. http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr. "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did." -- George W. Bush "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918) Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron... |
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Hank wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote: > > >>One day people will put all this together and the politicians will be >>held accountable at the ballot box. It is happening gradually right >>now. Why do you think the Republicans have retained the House, Senate >>and more often than not the Presidency? The biggest reason is they are >>the only party that is willing to cut taxes. > > > The problem is that they cut taxes disproportionately in > favor of corporations and the wealthiest few, which is exactly > the wrong thing to do. Not only do we have a record deficit, > but our local taxes are skyrocketing to make up for the federal > cuts in state aid. Bottom line is that corporations and the wealthiest > few are taxed less and the middle class is taxed more. Hank, did you (or anyone) ever get a paycheck from a poor person? I didn't think so. Do you think all rich people are evil, dishonest, lazy, uncaring, cheating *******s? If you do you're a loon. Do you think the government (at all levels) wastes a huge amount of our tax dollars? If you don't think so then get a clue. Do you think the solution to every problem is to throw money at it by taxing the living **** out of the wealthy and everyone making a decent living. If you do then please feel free to donate 80% of YOUR income to the IRS and don't presume you should control my income. The State/municipal governments are using the reduction in federal funding to dishonestly justify increased state taxes. Want to know what happened in my state of Virginia? Let me tell you anyway. They screamed the sky was falling two years ago and our newly elected DEMOCRATIC governor got a substantial tax hike enacted. Now they have a BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS that they are just itching to spend. Turns out there was no pending economic disaster after all. Now why that is? Turns out the federal tax cuts improved the State's economy much faster than our governor expected, or wanted. Now the debate is whether they should return the excess funds back to the tax payer. You can probably guess what I think they should do. Want to know why the low income people can't get anymore income tax reductions? It's because they don't pay any income tax! You know how the government gets their pound of flesh from them anyway? It's through personal property/property tax increases, gasoline taxes, cigarette/alcohol taxes and lottery tickets to name just a few ways. Over taxing the wealthy will screw our economy in ways you can't imagine. They are the engine that makes capitalism work. If you are for high tax rates on on any one group then all you want for this country is socialism. If there is one thing we have learned without question through our experiences of the 20th century it is that socialist governments don't work. IMO, removing incentives goes against nature and what drives us humans to succeed and advance. If you really want to help the poor get the government off their backs and quit making them dependent on government handouts. Liberals know that keeping the poor dependent and ignorant is their only hope of retaining them as a voting block. I know it is hard for you to read these things but sometimes the truth stings like a MF. >>People can't understand why there property taxes are sky >>rocketing when inflation isn't. > > > The bu$h regime is cutting federal aid to states to help > fund obscene tax cuts for the elite and it's war profiteering > in Iraq. The tax cuts and corporate welfare handouts have to be > covered by increases local taxes. Meanwhile jobs are leaving, > wages are stagnant, and health care costs are skyrocketing... You need to get up with current events and educate yourself on the economic conditions of many of the states. They are reaping the rewards from the bu$h regime's tax cuts. They are no where near economic meltdown. You need to get a new mantra because this "jobs are leaving, wages are stagnant" droning just doesn't bite anymore. Fact is the unemployment rate is better than at ANYTIME during the Clinton administration. The economy is booming in case you haven't heard. The wages in my industry (land development, engineering consulting, construction etc.) are up almost 100% in the last 5-7 years. This has happened in many other industries. I'm going to give you a little history lesson in economics. Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s the U.S. transcended to a service based economy. You need to read up on what that means. Basically, the majority of jobs in the country provide services and not manufacturing. It is a natural progression of a growing economy and an improving standard of living. Basically, we can no longer afford our own labor cost. Now people like you think this is a bad thing or that no matter what the cost to the consumer we need to keep mundane manufacturing jobs inside the USA. There are plenty of high paying jobs available to the people (and it really isn't that many people) who had their job transfered to a country with less labor costs. You know what they have to do though? Get off their rear ends and get training to be qualified to fill those positions. In the end they will have a better income with much better job security. The rest of the country's consumers can't, and shouldn't, be required to pay outrageous prices for underwear, blue jeans, computer components, knick knacks, automobiles etc. just so these people can retain their overpaying jobs. If you want to see what job protection causes just look at the stagnant economic growth in Europe and France and Germany, in particular. You need to accept that liberalism is hitting a dead end in this country. Your ideas are basically a sugar coated minor variation of socialism and communism. You and your cronies biggest problem is that you can't tell us what you really stand for because is would finish your group as a political entity. The days when liberals controlled the avenues of information to the masses are over. Now that nearly every person can hear both sides (liberal and conservative) and make their own choices your side has been trying to find ways to keep your real agenda secret. Liberals can't stand that the masses just don't swallow all your propaganda without question like in the past. You and your cronies have no clue how rabid your side looks by having Ted Kennedy, Cindy Sheehan, Micheal Moore, Barbra Streisand, Sean Penn, among others, making complete asses of themselves. All this completely ignorant, illogical and impossible babble you rant over in this newsgroup just makes your side look totally incapable of governing this country. As far as I'm concerned I want you and your buddies to keep doing exactly what you have been doing. It is the best way I know to keep you wacked out, far left liberals out of elected government. > ><snipped a huge amount of worthless HS> |
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