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Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 17th 17, 07:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Frank
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Posts: 19
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On 7/16/2017 9:42 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> CI 77007


I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.

Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.

The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
water repellent.

I'm a retired chemist but still do consulting and write a lot of MSDS's,
now just called Safety Data Sheets, SDS's, meeting Globally Harmonized
System requirements.

It is not necessary to divulge all ingredients except those mandated by
the EPA but all hazards must be disclosed. The Blue Magic SDS discloses
all ingredients and hazards but is outdated and not quite GHS compliant.
It is not particularly hazardous and probably does not require the new
hazard symbols.
Ads
  #32  
Old July 17th 17, 07:46 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Danny D.[_4_]
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Posts: 135
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:17:33 -0400, Frank wrote:

> There is always grit to worry about on the road.


I've ridden a motorcycle in my youth for tens of thousands of miles, so,
I'm aware of what happens when you drive behind almost any dump truck.

I also own a sand blasting kit, so, I'm aware of the power of sand
blasting.

Still, my gut feeling (but no science yet) tells me that these lenses are
yellowed from sunlight alone, and not from being sandblasted. I suspect if
I left a car in the sun and never drove it, that the lenses would still
yellow.

I'm not saying that sand blasting can't happen - I'm just intimating
(without hard science) that it's not happening. I could be wrong. (That's
why I have my huckleberry friends here to advise me.)

> I know the formula used for scratch resistant plastic but cannot divulge
> it. It would basically be applied like a wax. That's why it may be in
> a lens refinish kit but I do not know for sure. These finishes are also
> used on plastic eyeglass lens which easily scratch. Composition I had
> seen was for acrylic sheets.


The BlueMagic MSDS says "acrylic copolymer" as an tiny percent ingredient.
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/bl...lens_restorer/
It also lists Neodol, Argilla, and Pluronic F, none of which sound familiar
to me so I'll need to look them up but they're in tiny percentages also.

> Both acrylic and polycarbonate have good outdoor resistance but both are
> much softer than glass and easily scratched and dulled. Years ago I had
> a watch with plastic lens that I occasionally restored clarity with
> tooth paste. Toothpaste contains particulate that will not scratch teeth
> but is a mistake to use on plastic dentures as it could wear them. I
> have an old dental bridge that once had a plastic coating. Now years
> later after years of brushing it is gone and all metal.


I think everything "gritty" will be harder than the plastic that is used on
those headlight lenses. I'm thinking the Bentonite Clay that a well driller
gave me is the right size (it's a powder) but if I can get a hold of
aluminum oxide powder, that would be a good second bet.

The toothpaste grit is often silicon dioxide (sand) but they used those
blue plastic beads for a while (I hope they stopped that by now).

The trick, of course, is to get the right grit.
The good news is that the worst thing that happens is we ruin an already
ruined headlight - so luckily experimentation is not risky.
  #33  
Old July 17th 17, 08:23 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Tekkie®
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Posts: 84
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

Danny D. posted for all of us...


>
> Ooops. I meant SAE viscosities are meaningless in practical terms where I
> live, but you knew what I meant (API being for the SN or SM, which is good
> enough for any kid's car).
>
> My point is that it's worthwhile to figure out the "magic" in the
> ingredients where basic chemistry is the rule, not the mystery.
>
> To that end Sylvania sent the MSDF which is a bit cryptic:
> MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET #080513HRKUVBCC HRK UV BLock Clear Coat
> Bottled By: Dvelup 888-350-2932
> Stoddard Solvent CAS 8052-41-3
> Stoddard Solvent CAS 64742-88-7
> Where the MSDS says "This products formula is considered a trade secret,
> the exact chemical names of the ingredient(s) and the percentages in which
> they are combined will not appear in the body of this sheet. The exact
> composition is available upon request to physicians, industrial hygienists
> and other health professionals."
>
> The "secret ingredients" are probably just dimethicone, but that's what
> I'll try to find out.
>
>


The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
car... Less work for mother...

--
Tekkie
  #34  
Old July 17th 17, 09:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Danny D.[_4_]
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Posts: 135
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:42:33 -0400, Frank wrote:

> I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
> surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.
>
> Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
> does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.
>
> The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
> water repellent.


Thanks for looking over the chemistry of the "blue magic" ingredients of
the lens restorer and protective seal.

I, for one, do not believe in "magic" elixers, so, I suspect they all have
essentially the same ingredients so looking at the Blue Magic is probably
almost as good as looking at any other.

While I had never heard of these ingredients below, and while they're in
minute quantities (hence, they may not be meaningful), I did look them up
so I write a summary for the rest of the team to benefit from.

CI 77007 seems to be a deep blue pigment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CI_77007
http://cosmetics.specialchem.com/inci/ci-77007

Pluronic F seems to have a bunch of numbers after the F, as shown here
https://worldaccount.basf.com/wa/NAF...Brand/pluronic
where the "Pluronic" is a registered name indicated by "(R)".
[quote=BASF]
The Pluronic® types are block copolymers based on ethylene oxide
and propylene oxide. They can function as antifoaming agents,
wetting agents, dispersants, thickeners, and emulsifiers."

Argilla seems to be my old friend Bentonite, of which I have plenty that a
well driller gave me years ago for poison oak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentone_34
"CAS No. 1340-68-7(Bentone)" with synonyms of
arcilla blanca; argilla alba as described here
http://www.guidechem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html
http://www.lookchem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html

The Argilla (aka Bentone) is used to thicken greases:
http://www.ikvlubricants.com/grease-...es-gels-pastes

Neodol seems to be an ALCOHOL ETHOXYLATE surfactant/emulsifier whose
precise mix of chemicals depends on the number after the word.
http://s08.static-shell.com/content/...eodol-25-5.pdf
Like the "Pluronic F" stuff, there are a billion mixes made by Shell.
http://www.surfachem.com/neodol-91-6
where it's described as a short-chain (C9-C11) alcohol with 6 moles of
ethylene oxide.

So those 4 mystery ingredients (admittedly in small quantities) are
1. blue pigment (CI 77007)
2. surfactants/emulsifiers (Pluronic F & Neodol)
3. thickening agent (Argilla)
  #35  
Old July 17th 17, 09:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Steve W.[_6_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

Danny D. wrote:
> Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
> 1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
> indistinguishable from new?
>
> We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
> model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
> to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
> are both burned off by sunlight).
>
> The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
> headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
> remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
> http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/
>
> While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
> impressive
> http://xfactorae.com
>
> Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html
>
> Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
>
> Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
> 1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
> indistinguishable from new?
>
> If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
> headlights?


Easy to repair,
Get a 3M headlight kit
Either remove the light units or tape around them to protect the body paint.
Wet down and wash the grit off the lights. Then use the coarse paper and
keep the lens wet and sand until the yellow and scratches are gone.
Switch to the finer paper and sand until the larger scratches are gone,
switch to the last grit and keep going until you get to the polishing step.

NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).

This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic. The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.

--
Steve W.
  #36  
Old July 18th 17, 04:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Danny D.[_4_]
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Posts: 135
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:23:17 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

> The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
> also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
> car... Less work for mother...


Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
wasn't enough?
  #37  
Old July 18th 17, 04:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Danny D.[_4_]
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Posts: 135
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:26:14 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

> NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
> automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
> shop give them a spritz).


Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.

Searching, is this what you mean?
http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spr...clearcoat.aspx

Or maybe this?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...125/99984738-P

Or, maybe more likely this?
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx

> This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
> UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.


Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?

> The 2
> part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
> I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
> of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
> can burn the surface of the light.


A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.
  #38  
Old July 18th 17, 01:24 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 202
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

On 7/17/2017 11:27 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:23:17 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
>
>> The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did
>> this also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife
>> wrecked the car... Less work for mother...

>
> Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
> wasn't enough?



My limited eperience is that UV protection wears out after while. I've
used various outdoor finishes with UV protection and after two years it
is still good aside from the uv.
  #39  
Old July 18th 17, 05:47 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Steve W.[_6_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

Danny D. wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:26:14 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
>> automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
>> shop give them a spritz).

>
> Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
> automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.
>
> Searching, is this what you mean?
> http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spr...clearcoat.aspx
>
> Or maybe this?
> https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...125/99984738-P
>
> Or, maybe more likely this?
> https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx
>
>> This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
>> UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.

>
> Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?
>
>> The 2
>> part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
>> I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
>> of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
>> can burn the surface of the light.

>
> A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
> Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.


The 3M kit works very well. NONE of the chemical only kit's work. I've
done hundreds of headlights using the sand, polish, clear coat method.

The UV, age and other chemicals just destroy the lights. The plastics
have gotten better but some brands just seem to turn to crap faster.

https://repaintsupply.com/spraymax-3...sol-p3685.html
is a true 2 part clear in a spray can, if you don't have a spray gun.

or if you have a spray gun and know how to use it
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx
would work as well.

--
Steve W.
  #40  
Old July 19th 17, 07:28 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Tekkie®
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Posts: 84
Default Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?

Danny D. posted for all of us...


>
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:23:17 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
>
> > The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
> > also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
> > car... Less work for mother...

>
> Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
> wasn't enough?


I really had no valid comparison. The car was 13+ years old.

--
Tekkie
 




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