Japanese Vehicle Service Rant

OK, we have two new Japanese vehicles in the family and although they are
fine vehicles, it is clear that the Japanese manufacturers don't give a damn
about serviceability. I would particualrly like to stand a few of Honda
engineers up against the wall. Are they so stupid that they can't figure out
how to locate an oil filter so that it is not directly over another
component and hidden on the back side of the engine? And the parts guys need
to be investigated for fraud. And don't get me started on Nissan.

OK, I feel better now, and the cuts and bruises will heal - hopefully before
I have to change oil in the Nissan and Honda again.

Ed

"C. E. White" > wrote

> OK, we have two new Japanese vehicles in the family and although they are
> fine vehicles, it is clear that the Japanese manufacturers don't give a damn
> about serviceability. I would particualrly like to stand a few of Honda
> engineers up against the wall. Are they so stupid that they can't figure out
> how to locate an oil filter so that it is not directly over another
> component and hidden on the back side of the engine? ...And don't get me
> started on Nissan.OK, I feel better now, and the cuts and bruises will heal -
> hopefully before I have to change oil in the Nissan and Honda again.

I have my own lists of complaints.
[*] Honda uses timing belt instead of timing chain.[*] Honda uses interference instead of non-interference.[*] Honda uses their own power steering fluid.[*] Honda uses strict timing belt replacement intervals.[*] Honda spins the motor the wrong way, making it hard to remove pulley bolt.[*] Honda front wheel studs, brake disc are hard to service on late models.[*] Honda hybrid designs are ugly and use gas combustion at low speeds.[*] Honda designs are ugly compared to today's standards.[*] Honda has poor turn radius and then has unreliable axel boots.[*] Honda pickups too much road/engine noise.[*] Honda uses their own coolant.[*] Honda uses their own ATF.
[*] Nissans, I'd never owned them and probably never will.

[^] Toyota uses non-interference.
[^] Toyota uses easy single bolt to hold the distributor.
[^] Toyota has huge empty spaces to access parts.
[^] Toyota uses front oil filter access.
[^] Toyota uses rebuildable starter solenoids.
[^] Toyota are much more reliable.
[^] Toyota hybrid styles are great and uses electric at low speed.
[^] And many more.

> And the parts guys need to be investigated for fraud.

Absolutely, the parts guys need to be investigated. Honda ATF
is $6 a bottle. A year ago it was $3-4. Their premixed coolant goes for
$12/gallon. For that price a generic coolant can get you 2.5 gallons. I'd buy the
Honda VX Vtec-E for its motor and electronics technology but nothing
else. My next car has to be a few selected Lexus or Toyota or which ever
make can do better.

"Burt" > wrote in message
. com...
> "C. E. White" > wrote
>
> > OK, we have two new Japanese vehicles in the family and although they
are
> > fine vehicles, it is clear that the Japanese manufacturers don't give a
damn
> > about serviceability. I would particualrly like to stand a few of Honda
> > engineers up against the wall. Are they so stupid that they can't figure
out
> > how to locate an oil filter so that it is not directly over another
> > component and hidden on the back side of the engine? ...And don't get me
> > started on Nissan.OK, I feel better now, and the cuts and bruises will
heal -
> > hopefully before I have to change oil in the Nissan and Honda again.
>
> I have my own lists of complaints.
>
>[*] Honda uses timing belt instead of timing chain.
>[*] Honda uses interference instead of non-interference.
>[*] Honda uses their own power steering fluid.
>[*] Honda uses strict timing belt replacement intervals.
>[*] Honda spins the motor the wrong way, making it hard to remove pulley
bolt.
>[*] Honda front wheel studs, brake disc are hard to service on late
models.
>[*] Honda hybrid designs are ugly and use gas combustion at low speeds.
>[*] Honda designs are ugly compared to today's standards.
>[*] Honda has poor turn radius and then has unreliable axel boots.
>[*] Honda pickups too much road/engine noise.
>[*] Honda uses their own coolant.
>[*] Honda uses their own ATF.
>
>[*] Nissans, I'd never owned them and probably never will.
>
> [^] Toyota uses non-interference.
> [^] Toyota uses easy single bolt to hold the distributor.
> [^] Toyota has huge empty spaces to access parts.
> [^] Toyota uses front oil filter access.
> [^] Toyota uses rebuildable starter solenoids.
> [^] Toyota are much more reliable.
> [^] Toyota hybrid styles are great and uses electric at low speed.
> [^] And many more.
>
> > And the parts guys need to be investigated for fraud.
>
> Absolutely, the parts guys need to be investigated. Honda ATF
> is $6 a bottle. A year ago it was $3-4. Their premixed coolant goes for
> $12/gallon. For that price a generic coolant can get you 2.5 gallons. I'd
buy the
> Honda VX Vtec-E for its motor and electronics technology but nothing
> else. My next car has to be a few selected Lexus or Toyota or which ever
> make can do better.

You have to be kidding. Toyota are even worse than Hondas! I lived through
one Toyota. $400 alternators and $500 starters failed like popcorn. Crappy
paint and plastic. And even worse the car was a POS! At least the Honda
performs well.

Ed

My '04 Accord has a timing chain. Honda changed their engines from left
side to right side in '03 therefore they now turn same way as everybody
else. I like Honda because they are different.
Scott

zonie wrote:
> My '04 Accord has a timing chain. Honda changed their engines from left
> side to right side in '03 therefore they now turn same way as everybody
> else. I like Honda because they are different.
> Scott
>
Wait a minute. You like Honda because they are different but they are
changing to be like everbody else. Isn't there a conflict here?

Yes , you are right I am sorry to see Honda trying to conform. Im not sure
what my next car will be.
Scott

"C. E. White" > wrote

> You have to be kidding. Toyota are even worse than Hondas! I lived through
> one Toyota. $400 alternators and $500 starters failed like popcorn. Crappy
> paint and plastic. And even worse the car was a POS! At least the Honda
> performs well.

I must agree. They do have crappy paint and plastics.

But some of their late models are pretty well designed. Toyota has improved
their line of cars in the last couple of years. Don't know if they improved the
parts price, but a $400 alternator is too much.

The Honda was known for there superior suspensions compared to Toyota
when they first started out. Hondas corners well and even their frugal models
have steering speed sensor and feeling the road bump was part of a feedback
system.

C. E. White wrote:
> OK, we have two new Japanese vehicles in the family and although they are
> fine vehicles, it is clear that the Japanese manufacturers don't give a damn
> about serviceability. I would particualrly like to stand a few of Honda
> engineers up against the wall. Are they so stupid that they can't figure out
> how to locate an oil filter so that it is not directly over another
> component and hidden on the back side of the engine? And the parts guys need
> to be investigated for fraud. And don't get me started on Nissan.
>
> OK, I feel better now, and the cuts and bruises will heal - hopefully before
> I have to change oil in the Nissan and Honda again.
>
> Ed

Somehow Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru and the also rans have managed to
corner a big chunk of the market with well designed cars that can run
for hundreds of thousands of miles. As a group they produce highly
reliable cars. Service must not be that big a problem because there
are plenty of guys willing to make a living working on them.

What kind of fraud are the parts guys at the dealerships engaged in.

Parts at any new car dealer for any make are expensive. Ever priced
Volvo or Mercedes components?