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#11
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Tires that actually last
On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 16:20:42 -0600, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> IMO, mileage estimates seem to be for straight line, 50 mph, constant > temp and load. While the manufacturer stamps the tires with the treadwear indicator, they do so following an exacting driving procedure handed to them (AFAIK) by the DOT and/or the NHTSA to be run always on a specific San Angelo TX test course always with a specific driving pattern for all tires being tested. Let me dig that test track information up... o <https://one.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-UTQG-W-01.pdf> That document is labeled "TP-UTQG-W-01" US DOT NHTSA o "Procedures for tire treadwear testing" Skimming that document there is a Test Program Overview at section 1-12. "The tires will then be labeled, inspected, mounted onto rims, balanced and then placed onto the test vehicle. The test vehicle will be ballasted to achieve the required loading of the tires. The vehicles will be driven over the established 400 mile course utilizing the prescribed driving technique for a total of 7,200 miles. After each 800 miles, the tire pressure and tire depth will be measured, the tire position will be rotated, and the vehicle's front end alignment will be adjusted when required. At the completion of the test the wear rates of each tire will be calculated." And here is a course overview at section 5-12: "The course consists of 3 loops as follows: 1. Southern Loop 2. Eastern Loop 3. Northwestern Loop I had originally thought it was a test 'track' but skimming the document shows it's actually real roads and intersections such as STOP at FM388 for the Calibrated Mile and U-Turn at the Camp Hudson Historical Marker, and then drive on US277 for 88 miles, then drive on Sonora Road for 214 miles, and stop at FM388 & FM2334, etc. There's a map of the three loops which looks like a bow tie around a Christmas present, where the southern end is just a bendy ribbon while the two northern ends are both clearly large loops. Anyway, my quick summary from a quick skim is that it's on "regular" roads in Texas, where it's regular driving (they even tell the driver what the braking & yield procedures are in the document). When they check treadwear, they check it at 6 marked locations, starting at the DOT number avoiding treadwear indicator bars. It's not all straight but it's not all curves either. o It sure does seem like it's seven thousand miles of "normal driving", albeit I live on a mountain so none of that is covered in this test. See also: o Does the macadem road surface have a great effect on tire wear? <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/ZwIeZHNCzpI> o Questions about mounting & balancing new LT tires on new steel rims at home (match mounting marks, red dots, yellow dots, & spacers) <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/gjsqxRxTacw> o Clare, Xeno.... did you ever have a batch of tires that just wouldn't seal after the final bead? <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/ST-xNgC5pnU> o Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400 <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/zfyOpil5bck> o Can you return a tire you don't like for full refund? <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/5htRVubIoW8> o What metric do you use to estimate remaining brake pad life on a typical economy sedan? <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/C2VH6EvL2As> -- Posted, as always, out of the goodness of my heart, in order to help. |
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#12
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Tires that actually last
On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 10:57:13 +1100, Xeno wrote:
> What? At 15K miles? One rotate at most at that mileage, if that. Hi Xeno, As you know, I only get about 20K miles per tire, particularly if I don't rotate them every 5K miles and _flip_ them on the rim every 10K miles. But my driving (as is the driving of all my neighbors) is considered extreme, due to the high temporary camber on the inside front tire on the downhill side (as you're well aware of). Given these extreme conditions, I rotate at no later than 5K, and I should probably rotate even sooner, as I should probably flip them on the rims about every 5K instead of every 10K. |
#13
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Tires that actually last
Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 16:20:42 -0600, Paul in Houston TX wrote: > >> IMO, mileage estimates seem to be for straight line, 50 mph, constant >> temp and load. > > While the manufacturer stamps the tires with the treadwear indicator, they > do so following an exacting driving procedure handed to them (AFAIK) by the > DOT and/or the NHTSA to be run always on a specific San Angelo TX test > course always with a specific driving pattern for all tires being tested. > > Let me dig that test track information up... > o <https://one.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-UTQG-W-01.pdf> > > That document is labeled "TP-UTQG-W-01" US DOT NHTSA > o "Procedures for tire treadwear testing" Thank you for all the links. The test track info was interesting to me in that I have driven all those routes several times. About the only tire hazard there is the occasional armadillo. |
#14
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Tires that actually last
On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 13:39:52 -0600, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> Thank you for all the links. The test track info was interesting to me > in that I have driven all those routes several times. About the only > tire hazard there is the occasional armadillo. Hi Paul, Given you've seen those roads, would you call them part of a "normal" driving regimen? (i.e., fast, slow, stop, go, turn left, uturn, turn right, brake, etc.) |
#15
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Tires that actually last
Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 13:39:52 -0600, Paul in Houston TX wrote: > >> Thank you for all the links. The test track info was interesting to me >> in that I have driven all those routes several times. About the only >> tire hazard there is the occasional armadillo. > > Hi Paul, > > Given you've seen those roads, would you call them part of a "normal" > driving regimen? > > (i.e., fast, slow, stop, go, turn left, uturn, turn right, brake, etc.) I would consider the test loops to be normal driving conditions for central west Texas only. All of the test routes are rural and San Angelo is a small town. Rural roads in Texas are usually in superb condition without potholes and are essentially flat with long sweeping curves. Its easy to go 100+ mph for long distances. The bad part of the test loops is the summer temperature. 115F air temp in the shade at 5' above grade in the summer and 150+F on the roadway. I used to live and work in the area. There is no comparison to Houston's bumper to bumper traffic with corresponding slamming on the brakes, making sharp turns, and running over road debris. If the test loops predict 50k miles usage from a tire then I'd probably half that for Houston, or 25k miles. However, the test loops would be good for a comparison / ratio between tires instead of using for a discrete number. |
#16
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Tires that actually last
On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 22:31:56 -0600, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> There is no comparison to Houston's bumper to bumper traffic with > corresponding slamming on the brakes, making sharp turns, and running > over road debris Thanks for answering the question, as my only other option was to use Google Maps Street View, but I prefer your answer, which I accept. Given that the test loop is only somewhat realistic (at least it's run on real roads instead of on a track), I suspect most of us will _not_ get the mileage stamped on the tire carcass itself (i.e., the TREADWEAR rating). Of course, miles are _never_ directly stated on the sidewall - they're just numbers like 100 or 200 or 300, etc., but we care about miles, so I try to convert the 100 to about 10,000 miles, the 200 to about 20,000 miles, etc. Me? o I get 400 TREADWEAR tires and they last about 20K miles But I drive in what Xeno would agree as "extreme conditions", in that I'm miles up on a mountain road, so the camber scrub of the inside tire's outside corner is immense and visible within 100 miles (I've posted photos of that in the other threads I cited). The only times miles are "stated" is in the warranty, which, I've found out the hard way, is almost impossible to make any use of due to the conditions they specify in the warranty costing more than the price of the tire. -- Posted as an exchange of dialog about items of knowledge & experience. |
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