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iRacing and real names?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 09, 12:05 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
jeffareid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 176
Default iRacing and real names?

From:

https://members.iracing.com/membersite/termsofuse.jsp

Here is the clause:

4.1.
To establish an Account, you will be required to provide iRacing.com with
certain personal information. Your failure to supply accurate information to
iRacing.com when requested, or to update that information as it changes, may
result in an interruption or cancellation of service. You agree that we may
handle your personal information as described in our Privacy Policy. In
particular (but without limitation), you acknowledge that, except in
extraordinary circumstances as agreed to by iRacing in its sole discretion,
YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name followed by a
numeral) WILL BE DISPLAYED TO OTHER USERS OF THE SERVICE, AND YOU HEREBY
CONSENT TO SUCH DISPLAY. THIS INCLUDES DISPLAY OF YOUR NAME WITH RESPECT TO ANY
DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS TAKEN AGAINST YOU AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE SPORTING
CODE. The purpose of displaying members' real names is to create accountability
to discourage members from engaging in disruptive activity. IF YOU ARE
AUTHORIZING A MINOR CHILD TO USE THE SERVICE, YOU MUST NOT PROVIDE TO
IRACING.COM ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT SUCH CHILD.

So similar to RSC, forum members are subject to display of your real name
and disciplinary actions? This is the same issue I had with RSC. The issue
is that these disciplinary actions would qualify as defamatory statements
made against members, especially those using real names. Regardless of any
implied agreement, in the USA, you can't waive your legal rights to be
protected against defamation (libel or slander), since it's covered by
criminal law (although it's usually handled via civil lawsuits). iRacing
would be violating defamation laws if it couldn't back up any public
disciplinary action with reasonable proof. In a criminal case or lawsuit,
the burden of proof is upon the person or company that made the statement.

However, nothing in the termsofuse requires a member to use a real name,
and in the case of a minor, the real name isn't permitted to be used,
since it would be revealing personal information about the minor.





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  #2  
Old July 14th 09, 12:35 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
David Fisher's Left Testicle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default iRacing and real names?


"jeffareid" > wrote in message
...
> From:
>
> https://members.iracing.com/membersite/termsofuse.jsp
>
> Here is the clause:
>
> 4.1.
> To establish an Account, you will be required to provide iRacing.com with
> certain personal information. Your failure to supply accurate information
> to
> iRacing.com when requested, or to update that information as it changes,
> may
> result in an interruption or cancellation of service. You agree that we
> may
> handle your personal information as described in our Privacy Policy. In
> particular (but without limitation), you acknowledge that, except in
> extraordinary circumstances as agreed to by iRacing in its sole
> discretion,
> YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name followed by
> a
> numeral) WILL BE DISPLAYED TO OTHER USERS OF THE SERVICE, AND YOU HEREBY
> CONSENT TO SUCH DISPLAY. THIS INCLUDES DISPLAY OF YOUR NAME WITH RESPECT
> TO ANY
> DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS TAKEN AGAINST YOU AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE
> SPORTING
> CODE. The purpose of displaying members' real names is to create
> accountability
> to discourage members from engaging in disruptive activity. IF YOU ARE
> AUTHORIZING A MINOR CHILD TO USE THE SERVICE, YOU MUST NOT PROVIDE TO
> IRACING.COM ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT SUCH CHILD.
>
> So similar to RSC, forum members are subject to display of your real name
> and disciplinary actions? This is the same issue I had with RSC. The issue
> is that these disciplinary actions would qualify as defamatory statements
> made against members, especially those using real names. Regardless of any
> implied agreement, in the USA, you can't waive your legal rights to be
> protected against defamation (libel or slander), since it's covered by
> criminal law (although it's usually handled via civil lawsuits). iRacing
> would be violating defamation laws if it couldn't back up any public
> disciplinary action with reasonable proof. In a criminal case or lawsuit,
> the burden of proof is upon the person or company that made the statement.
>
> However, nothing in the termsofuse requires a member to use a real name,
> and in the case of a minor, the real name isn't permitted to be used,
> since it would be revealing personal information about the minor.
>


Don't be stupid. Libel/slander is when your reputation is reduced in the
eyes of right thinking people. I can't see any way that a wrongly attributed
public warning on RSC can damage you materially. Nor can I see a miscarriage
of justice regarding iRacing's sporting code causing you problems. If you
took any of this to a judge you would be laughed out of court.

Now, stop being a girl and get on with your life!

  #3  
Old July 14th 09, 01:01 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
jeffareid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 176
Default iRacing and real names?

> Libel/slander is when your reputation is reduced in the eyes of right
> thinking people.


That's not the legal definition, from wiki:

"communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or
implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product,
group, government or nation a negative image"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation


> I can't see any way that a wrongly attributed public warning on RSC
> can damage you materially.


> Nor can I see a miscarriage of justice regarding iRacing's sporting
> code causing you problems.


Defamation doesn't require "material" damage, if you're implying that
it's finiancially related.

> If you took any of this to a judge you would be laughed out of court.


Depends on how good a lawyer you have. Some lawyers are experts
at turning molehills in to mountains when there's money to be made
from a civil lawsuit. Note that the income for civil courts and
their staffing depends on a steady flow of civil lawsuits.7

In both cases though (RSC or iRacing), a person could simply choose
to use a persona instead of a real name.

What is strange is that the wording of the terms of use mentions
the usage of real names, but it never states that using a real name
is a requirement for using the iRacing service. So I'm guessing that
it's just a community standard to use real names as opposed to
a requirement? Still for those members that do use their real
names, or if they use personas that a reasonable number of
people would associate with their real names, then laws regarding
defamation would apply. If I were running a business, it's a risk
I wouldn't be willing to take.




  #4  
Old July 14th 09, 08:46 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
David Fisher's Left Testicle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default iRacing and real names?


"jeffareid" > wrote in message
...
>> Libel/slander is when your reputation is reduced in the eyes of right
>> thinking people.

>
> That's not the legal definition, from wiki:
>
> "communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or
> implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product,
> group, government or nation a negative image"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation


Look, being wrongly accused of breaking the iRacing sporting code isn't
worth a day in court. Same with an RSC warning. These are minor issues.
Niether will affect your reputation adversely. iRacing is a game and RSC is
a games forum.
>
>
>> I can't see any way that a wrongly attributed public warning on RSC
>> can damage you materially.

>
>> Nor can I see a miscarriage of justice regarding iRacing's sporting
>> code causing you problems.

>
> Defamation doesn't require "material" damage, if you're implying that
> it's finiancially related.
>
>> If you took any of this to a judge you would be laughed out of court.

>
> Depends on how good a lawyer you have. Some lawyers are experts
> at turning molehills in to mountains when there's money to be made
> from a civil lawsuit. Note that the income for civil courts and
> their staffing depends on a steady flow of civil lawsuits.7
>
> In both cases though (RSC or iRacing), a person could simply choose
> to use a persona instead of a real name.
>
> What is strange is that the wording of the terms of use mentions
> the usage of real names, but it never states that using a real name
> is a requirement for using the iRacing service. So I'm guessing that
> it's just a community standard to use real names as opposed to
> a requirement? Still for those members that do use their real
> names, or if they use personas that a reasonable number of
> people would associate with their real names, then laws regarding
> defamation would apply. If I were running a business, it's a risk
> I wouldn't be willing to take.
>
>
>
>


  #5  
Old July 14th 09, 02:27 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default iRacing and real names?

On Jul 13, 7:05*pm, "jeffareid" > wrote:
> From:
>
> https://members.iracing.com/membersite/termsofuse.jsp
>
> Here is the clause:
>
> 4.1.
> To establish an Account, you will be required to provide iRacing.com with
> certain personal information. Your failure to supply accurate information to
> iRacing.com when requested, or to update that information as it changes, may
> result in an interruption or cancellation of service. You agree that we may
> handle your personal information as described in our Privacy Policy. In
> particular (but without limitation), you acknowledge that, except in
> extraordinary circumstances as agreed to by iRacing in its sole discretion,
> YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name followed by a
> numeral) WILL BE DISPLAYED TO OTHER USERS OF THE SERVICE, AND YOU HEREBY
> CONSENT TO SUCH DISPLAY. THIS INCLUDES DISPLAY OF YOUR NAME WITH RESPECT TO ANY
> DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS TAKEN AGAINST YOU AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE SPORTING
> CODE. The purpose of displaying members' real names is to create accountability
> to discourage members from engaging in disruptive activity. IF YOU ARE
> AUTHORIZING A MINOR CHILD TO USE THE SERVICE, YOU MUST NOT PROVIDE TO
> IRACING.COM ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT SUCH CHILD.
>
> So similar to RSC, forum members are subject to display of your real name
> and disciplinary actions? This is the same issue I had with RSC. The issue
> is that these disciplinary actions would qualify as defamatory statements
> made against members, especially those using real names. Regardless of any
> implied agreement, in the USA, you can't waive your legal rights to be
> protected against defamation (libel or slander), since it's covered by
> criminal law (although it's usually handled via civil lawsuits). iRacing
> would be violating defamation laws if it couldn't back up any public
> disciplinary action with reasonable proof. In a criminal case or lawsuit,
> the burden of proof is upon the person or company that made the statement..


Libel or slander applies only when the statement being made is false.

> However, nothing in the termsofuse requires a member to use a real name,
> and in the case of a minor, the real name isn't permitted to be used,
> since it would be revealing personal information about the minor.


Doesn't this do that?

Your failure to supply accurate information to
iRacing.com when requested, or to update that information as it
changes, may
result in an interruption or cancellation of service. You agree that
we may
handle your personal information as described in our Privacy Policy.
In
particular (but without limitation), you acknowledge that, except in
extraordinary circumstances as agreed to by iRacing in its sole
discretion,
YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name
followed by a
numeral)
  #6  
Old July 14th 09, 03:57 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
David Fisher's Left Testicle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default iRacing and real names?


> wrote in message
...
On Jul 13, 7:05 pm, "jeffareid" > wrote:
> From:
>
> https://members.iracing.com/membersite/termsofuse.jsp
>
> Here is the clause:
>
> 4.1.
> To establish an Account, you will be required to provide iRacing.com with
> certain personal information. Your failure to supply accurate information
> to
> iRacing.com when requested, or to update that information as it changes,
> may
> result in an interruption or cancellation of service. You agree that we
> may
> handle your personal information as described in our Privacy Policy. In
> particular (but without limitation), you acknowledge that, except in
> extraordinary circumstances as agreed to by iRacing in its sole
> discretion,
> YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name followed by
> a
> numeral) WILL BE DISPLAYED TO OTHER USERS OF THE SERVICE, AND YOU HEREBY
> CONSENT TO SUCH DISPLAY. THIS INCLUDES DISPLAY OF YOUR NAME WITH RESPECT
> TO ANY
> DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS TAKEN AGAINST YOU AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN THE
> SPORTING
> CODE. The purpose of displaying members' real names is to create
> accountability
> to discourage members from engaging in disruptive activity. IF YOU ARE
> AUTHORIZING A MINOR CHILD TO USE THE SERVICE, YOU MUST NOT PROVIDE TO
> IRACING.COM ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT SUCH CHILD.
>
> So similar to RSC, forum members are subject to display of your real name
> and disciplinary actions? This is the same issue I had with RSC. The issue
> is that these disciplinary actions would qualify as defamatory statements
> made against members, especially those using real names. Regardless of any
> implied agreement, in the USA, you can't waive your legal rights to be
> protected against defamation (libel or slander), since it's covered by
> criminal law (although it's usually handled via civil lawsuits). iRacing
> would be violating defamation laws if it couldn't back up any public
> disciplinary action with reasonable proof. In a criminal case or lawsuit,
> the burden of proof is upon the person or company that made the statement.


>>Libel or slander applies only when the statement being made is false.


Well, obviously!

 




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