Logic for or against the tire-rotation pattern X > H > X > H

What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
X > H > X > H year 1
X > H > X > H year 2
etsetera

Basic assumptions:
Assume the alignment is within spec.
Assume the fronts consistently wear differently than do the rears.
Assume that F->B differential wear is symmetric per axle.
Assume the spare is a donut and therefore out of the picture.
Assume a rotation every change of seasons (about 4K miles roughly).
Assume bidirectional tread.
Assume whitewalls on one side (otherwise I could flip them on the rim).
Assume USA crowns, which is to say almost no crown most of the time.

How does the logic of this X > H > X > H rotation pattern look to you?

Assume tires go on in year 1, front to back, numbered:
1 2
|
3 4

The first X-pattern rotation in Spring of year 1 gets us:
4 3
|
2 1

The H pattern in Summer of year 1 gets us to:
2 1
|
4 3

The X pattern of Fall of year 1 gets us to:
3 4
|
1 2

And then, finally, the Winter H pattern of year 1 gets us back to:
1 2
|
3 4

At the end of the year, with this X > H > X > H pattern I devised, I think
the tires would have been on every combination but always as a set per axle
because my fronts wear differently than do my rears.

If I flip them on the rim, does that help in giving me rotation options?

Roy Tremblay > writes:

> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?

Total waste of time.

Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.

--
Dan Espen

On 07/28/2017 01:13 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
> Roy Tremblay > writes:
>
>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>
> Total waste of time.
>
> Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.

I wish that wheels were reversible. No matter what pattern you use the
outside edge is always the outside edge and gets the most wear.



--
Cheers, Bev
Q: How many lawyers does it take to grease a combine?
A: One, if you feed him in real slow.

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 4:13:12 AM UTC+8, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> Total waste of time.
>
> Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.
>
I drive RWD cars, and I found the front and rear wore out at the same
time (unless there was an alignment problem).

On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 16:13:06 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:

>Roy Tremblay > writes:
>
>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>
>Total waste of time.
>
>Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.

+1
I never in my life rotated a tire, or had them rotated.
For a while I bought my tires used for 5-20 bucks a pop.
Now I buy 4 quality new tires when the old ones wear out.

Vic Smith > writes:

> On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 16:13:06 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>
>>Roy Tremblay > writes:
>>
>>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>>
>>Total waste of time.
>>
>>Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.
>
> +1
> I never in my life rotated a tire, or had them rotated.
> For a while I bought my tires used for 5-20 bucks a pop.
> Now I buy 4 quality new tires when the old ones wear out.

Yet this thread goes on and on about you've got to do this,
and that. Seems like people like their rituals.

Same with the "winterizing" the lawn mower.
I just stop using it in the fall. In the spring it starts right up.
I've got at least 50 years of not rotating my tires and not
winterizing the lawn mower under my belt. No ill effects
noticed so far.

--
Dan Espen

On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 22:41:12 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:

>Vic Smith > writes:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 16:13:06 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>>
>>>Roy Tremblay > writes:
>>>
>>>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>>>
>>>Total waste of time.
>>>
>>>Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.
>>
>> +1
>> I never in my life rotated a tire, or had them rotated.
>> For a while I bought my tires used for 5-20 bucks a pop.
>> Now I buy 4 quality new tires when the old ones wear out.
>
>Yet this thread goes on and on about you've got to do this,
>and that. Seems like people like their rituals.
>
>Same with the "winterizing" the lawn mower.
>I just stop using it in the fall. In the spring it starts right up.
>I've got at least 50 years of not rotating my tires and not
>winterizing the lawn mower under my belt. No ill effects
>noticed so far.

Same here. I don't even run it out of gas. Same with the weedwhacker.
I think doing the rituals offend or confuse the machines, making them act up.

On 07/30/2017 07:03 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 22:41:12 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>
>>Vic Smith > writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 16:13:06 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Roy Tremblay > writes:
>>>>
>>>>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>>>>
>>>>Total waste of time.
>>>>
>>>>Drive the car until the tires wear out, then buy new ones.
>>>
>>> +1
>>> I never in my life rotated a tire, or had them rotated.
>>> For a while I bought my tires used for 5-20 bucks a pop.
>>> Now I buy 4 quality new tires when the old ones wear out.
>>
>>Yet this thread goes on and on about you've got to do this,
>>and that. Seems like people like their rituals.
>>
>>Same with the "winterizing" the lawn mower.
>>I just stop using it in the fall. In the spring it starts right up.
>>I've got at least 50 years of not rotating my tires and not
>>winterizing the lawn mower under my belt. No ill effects
>>noticed so far.
>
> Same here. I don't even run it out of gas. Same with the weedwhacker.
> I think doing the rituals offend or confuse the machines, making them act up.

They don't like being ignored either. I don't whack weeds very often
and was shocked to find that THAT LITTLE THING was the carb and needed
to be cleaned. I couldn't put it back together again although I have
cleaned MC carbs successfully. Enough. Nothing but electric whackers
and mowers from then on.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey
and car keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke

In article >, says...
>
> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
> X > H > X > H year 1
> X > H > X > H year 2
> etsetera
>
> Basic assumptions:
> Assume the alignment is within spec.
> Assume the fronts consistently wear differently than do the rears.
> Assume that F->B differential wear is symmetric per axle.
> Assume the spare is a donut and therefore out of the picture.
> Assume a rotation every change of seasons (about 4K miles roughly).
> Assume bidirectional tread.
> Assume whitewalls on one side (otherwise I could flip them on the rim).
> Assume USA crowns, which is to say almost no crown most of the time.
>
> How does the logic of this X > H > X > H rotation pattern look to you?
>
> Assume tires go on in year 1, front to back, numbered:
> 1 2
> |
> 3 4
>
> The first X-pattern rotation in Spring of year 1 gets us:
> 4 3
> |
> 2 1
>
> The H pattern in Summer of year 1 gets us to:
> 2 1
> |
> 4 3
>
> The X pattern of Fall of year 1 gets us to:
> 3 4
> |
> 1 2
>
> And then, finally, the Winter H pattern of year 1 gets us back to:
> 1 2
> |
> 3 4
>
> At the end of the year, with this X > H > X > H pattern I devised, I think
> the tires would have been on every combination but always as a set per axle
> because my fronts wear differently than do my rears.
>
> If I flip them on the rim, does that help in giving me rotation options?

Years ago the recommended patern was the X type where each tire was at
each position at the end of all the swapping. Even the spare tire was
recommended, which would not be a bad idea was it not for the minispare
as tires sort of dry rot even if not on the road.

When radial tires came out,it was recommended to keep the tires on the
same side so they always turned the same direction. Just bought a new
2017 Toyato and the recommended rotation is to keep the tires on the
same side.

Sure wold be a pain to take them off the rim and reverse them. Probably
would put the letering on the wrong side,and if white wall or raised
letters, they would be facing the inside of the car instead of the
outside.

On 7/28/2017 4:38 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> What do you think about the 4-tire rotation pattern below?
>> X > H > X > H year 1
>> X > H > X > H year 2
>> etsetera
>>
>> Basic assumptions:
>> Assume the alignment is within spec.
>> Assume the fronts consistently wear differently than do the rears.
>> Assume that F->B differential wear is symmetric per axle.
>> Assume the spare is a donut and therefore out of the picture.
>> Assume a rotation every change of seasons (about 4K miles roughly).
>> Assume bidirectional tread.
>> Assume whitewalls on one side (otherwise I could flip them on the rim).
>> Assume USA crowns, which is to say almost no crown most of the time.
>>
>> How does the logic of this X > H > X > H rotation pattern look to you?
>>
>> Assume tires go on in year 1, front to back, numbered:
>> 1 2
>> |
>> 3 4
>>
>> The first X-pattern rotation in Spring of year 1 gets us:
>> 4 3
>> |
>> 2 1
>>
>> The H pattern in Summer of year 1 gets us to:
>> 2 1
>> |
>> 4 3
>>
>> The X pattern of Fall of year 1 gets us to:
>> 3 4
>> |
>> 1 2
>>
>> And then, finally, the Winter H pattern of year 1 gets us back to:
>> 1 2
>> |
>> 3 4
>>
>> At the end of the year, with this X > H > X > H pattern I devised, I think
>> the tires would have been on every combination but always as a set per axle
>> because my fronts wear differently than do my rears.
>>
>> If I flip them on the rim, does that help in giving me rotation options?
>
> Years ago the recommended patern was the X type where each tire was at
> each position at the end of all the swapping. Even the spare tire was
> recommended, which would not be a bad idea was it not for the minispare
> as tires sort of dry rot even if not on the road.
>
> When radial tires came out,it was recommended to keep the tires on the
> same side so they always turned the same direction. Just bought a new
> 2017 Toyato and the recommended rotation is to keep the tires on the
> same side.
>
> Sure wold be a pain to take them off the rim and reverse them. Probably
> would put the letering on the wrong side,and if white wall or raised
> letters, they would be facing the inside of the car instead of the
> outside.
>

Pert of me believes the motive for swapping sides was to increase
business for the garages since the entire car would need to be lifted to
remove all tires as opposed to one side each for front and back, which
most garage mechanics can accomplish.