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#1
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Read this before you buy
ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the
seatbelt. It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...#Effectiveness |
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#2
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Read this before you buy
Tom Adams > wrote in :
> ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the > seatbelt. It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...#Effectiveness > Perfect for people that have no idea how to drive a car. Required for badly designed cars like this one: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...266773 _n.jpg -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) |
#3
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Read this before you buy
On Sep 30, 4:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote:
> Tom Adams > wrote : > > > ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the > > seatbelt. *It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still > > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...#Effectiveness > > Perfect for people that have no idea how to drive a car. Required for > badly designed cars like this one: > > http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...28660_10150187... > > -- > (setq (chuck nil) *car(chuck) ) In general, cars are among the worst designed consumer products, close to the worst of all. Your has a 1 in 500 chance of killing you. Add up all the cars you will own and that gets you to 1 in 85. And that does not even include all the non-fatal injuries. What's worse than that? Cigarettes are the only one I can think of. BTW: If you had the slightest idea of what you are talking about, you would have linked to a picture of some SUV, not a sedan. |
#4
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Read this before you buy
Tom Adams > wrote in
: > On Sep 30, 4:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote: >> Tom Adams > wrote >> innews:60ed4c25-2a29-467a-b97b-1c29 > : >> >> > ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the >> > seatbelt. *It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still >> > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...ol#Effectivene >> >ss >> >> Perfect for people that have no idea how to drive a car. Required for >> badly designed cars like this one: >> >> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...28660_10150187. > In general, cars are among the worst designed consumer products, close > to the worst of all. > > Your has a 1 in 500 chance of killing you. Add up all the cars you > will own and that gets > you to 1 in 85. And that does not even include all the non-fatal > injuries. > > What's worse than that? Cigarettes are the only one I can think of. > > BTW: If you had the slightest idea of what you are talking about, you > would have linked to a picture of some SUV, not a sedan. > If you did you wouldn't use superlatives in decribing it. Lighten up FCS. You don't recognise anyone in that shot? You don't seem to have much consistancy in what you say either: > Look it's a crutch. What would remove it is tougher driving tests and retests. Nothing else other than a massive increase in police employment is going to work. In Finland for example, you have to be able to do a powerslide to get a licence. ABS is necessary in emergencies. Traction control is another crutch for people who simply can't get a feel for driving and is only useful in race cars. Perhaps it increases tire life, but that's it. BTW *no* one survives an encounter with a moose. It's purely a roll of the dice. Except for the case where you're on a well lit straight as an arrow road where you can see the thing 1/4 mile ahead of you, you simply can't do anything. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) |
#5
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Read this before you buy
On Oct 1, 7:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote:
> Tom Adams > wrote : > > > > > > > On Sep 30, 4:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote: > >> Tom Adams > wrote > >> innews:60ed4c25-2a29-467a-b97b-1c29 > > : > > >> > ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the > >> > seatbelt. *It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still > >> > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: > > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...ol#Effectivene > >> >ss > > >> Perfect for people that have no idea how to drive a car. Required for > >> badly designed cars like this one: > > >>http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...28660_10150187. > > In general, cars are among the worst designed consumer products, close > > to the worst of all. > > > Your has a 1 in 500 chance of killing you. *Add up all the cars you > > will own and that gets > > you to 1 in 85. *And that does not even include all the non-fatal > > injuries. > > > What's worse than that? Cigarettes are the only one I can think of. > > > BTW: If you had the slightest idea of what you are talking about, you > > would have linked to a picture of some SUV, not a sedan. > > If you did you wouldn't use superlatives in decribing it. > > Lighten up FCS. You don't recognise anyone in that shot? > > You don't seem to have much consistancy in what you say either: > > > > > Look it's a crutch. What would remove it is tougher driving tests and > retests. Nothing else other than a massive increase in police employment > is going to work. In Finland for example, you have to be able to do a > powerslide to get a licence. ABS is necessary in emergencies. What a joke, you are not aware that ABS didn't pan out. No evidence it ever saved a single life. > Traction > control is another crutch for people who simply can't get a feel for > driving and is only useful in race cars. Perhaps it increases tire > life, but that's it. > > BTW *no* one survives an encounter with a moose. It's purely a roll of the > dice. Except for the case where you're on a well lit straight as an arrow > road where you can see the thing 1/4 mile ahead of you, you simply can't > do anything. > > -- > (setq (chuck nil) *car(chuck) )- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If you want to drive at the edge of oversteer and understeer, hit the off button. Your bizarre opinions don;t change the facts: 1 person will die for every 1500 or so new motor vehicles sold without ESC between now and the start of the 2012 model year (when it's mandated). |
#7
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Read this before you buy
On Oct 2, 8:14*am, chuckcar > wrote:
> Nancy Adams > wrote : > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 7:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote: > >> Tom Adams > wrote > >> innews:6e7a9ce3-6811-42a0-b48c-b698 > > : > > >> > On Sep 30, 4:25*pm, chuckcar > wrote: > >> >> Tom Adams > wrote > >> >> innews:60ed4c25-2a29-467a-b97b-1c29 > >> > : > > >> >> > ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the > >> >> > seatbelt. *It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still > >> >> > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: > > >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...ntrol#Effectiv > >> >> >ene ss > > >> >> Perfect for people that have no idea how to drive a car. Required > >> >> for badly designed cars like this one: > > >> >>http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-.../28660_1015018 > >> >>7. > >> > In general, cars are among the worst designed consumer products, > >> > close to the worst of all. > > >> > Your has a 1 in 500 chance of killing you. *Add up all the cars you > >> > will own and that gets > >> > you to 1 in 85. *And that does not even include all the non-fatal > >> > injuries. > > >> > What's worse than that? Cigarettes are the only one I can think of. > > >> > BTW: If you had the slightest idea of what you are talking about, > >> > you would have linked to a picture of some SUV, not a sedan. > > >> If you did you wouldn't use superlatives in decribing it. > > >> Lighten up FCS. You don't recognise anyone in that shot? > > >> You don't seem to have much consistancy in what you say either: > > >> > >> ps. > > com> > > >> Look it's a crutch. What would remove it is tougher driving tests and > >> retests. Nothing else other than a massive increase in police > >> employment is going to work. In Finland for example, you have to be > >> able to do a powerslide to get a licence. ABS is necessary in > >> emergencies. > > > What a joke, you are not aware that ABS didn't pan out. No evidence it > > ever saved a single life. > > Then you've never read any newpapers. It happens daily. If you stop in a > shorter distance - assuming you're not some idiot that doesn't wear > seatbelts and fly out the windshield - it simply does. "Most important, however, was the observation that the stopping distances during the braking manoeuvres were not any shorter in the presence of ABS than with standard brakes." http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html > > > If you want to drive at the edge of oversteer and understeer, hit the > > off button. > > When there *is* one. There isn't far more often than the reverse. And do > *don't* turn it off for such. Just the reverse. I assume you're talking > about Traction control here - the above appeared after my sig and no where > near any relevant paragraph of mine. I was talking about ESC, sorry for the confusion. > > > Your bizarre opinions don;t change the facts: 1 person will die for > > every 1500 or so new motor vehicles sold without ESC between now and > > the start of the 2012 model year (when it's mandated). > > You have an actual study to back this up? European, NHTSA and IIHS field studies show about a 1/3 reduction in fatalities for ESC. The average risk for a motor vehicle is 1/500, hence 1/1500. > > I'll tell you what will give you even better stats: ban consumer SUV > purchases in cases where they're not actually needed. By SUV's I > mean: crossovers, minivans, what are *actually* called SUV's, vans and > trucks. All the above serve a purpose, but are rarely bought for such. ESC has roughly equalized the risk for SUVs vs sedans. > > They're already declining in sales and there's a glut on the market. Has > been for a few years now. > > -- > (setq (chuck nil) *car(chuck) )- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |
#8
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Read this before you buy
On 9/30/2010 2:49 AM, Tom Adams wrote:
> ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the > seatbelt. It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still > optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...#Effectiveness My 2006 Hyundai Sonata has ESC, there's a button on the dash to turn it off. My guess is that if your car has ABS, adding this feature is mostly a software change. I think it's a great advance although I suspect it might increase your chances for rollover accidents in high center of gravity vehicles. |
#9
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Read this before you buy
In article >, dsi1 > wrote:
>On 9/30/2010 2:49 AM, Tom Adams wrote: >> ESC is considered to be the greatest advance in safety since the >> seatbelt. It will be required on all 2012 cars, but it's still >> optional or not available on some 2010 and 2011 models: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...#Effectiveness > >My 2006 Hyundai Sonata has ESC, there's a button on the dash to turn it >off. My guess is that if your car has ABS, adding this feature is mostly >a software change. > >I think it's a great advance although I suspect it might increase your >chances for rollover accidents in high center of gravity vehicles. ESC makes the vehicle more stable and extends the basic stability envelope. The thing is, there's still an edge to that envelope, it's just in a different place. The end consequence of this is that the point where the system becomes unstable is more difficult to hit, but it's also more unstable at that point than it otherwise would be. ESC does make a bloated and ungainly vehicle easier to drive. Personally I don't think this is a good thing because I think the _last_ thing we need is to encourage more people to drive bloated and ungainly gas-guzzlers. You can take the attitude that ESC is a bad thing because it takes control effectively away from the driver and hands it to an automated system. But on the other hand, if you look at most of the drivers on the road today, an automated system can probably do better. Hell, a trained gorilla can probably do better. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
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Read this before you buy
Tom Adams > wrote in
: > On Oct 2, 8:14*am, chuckcar > wrote: >> Nancy Adams > wrote >> innews:7802017b-5232-48b7-992d-f6 > : >> >> >> Look it's a crutch. What would remove it is tougher driving tests >> >> and retests. Nothing else other than a massive increase in police >> >> employment is going to work. In Finland for example, you have to >> >> be able to do a powerslide to get a licence. ABS is necessary in >> >> emergencies. >> >> > What a joke, you are not aware that ABS didn't pan out. No evidence >> > it ever saved a single life. >> Not to labour over this minor point, but you don't *hear* about accidents that don't happen either. you *do* hear about declines in auto accidents however. >> Then you've never read any newpapers. It happens daily. If you stop >> in a shorter distance - assuming you're not some idiot that doesn't >> wear seatbelts and fly out the windshield - it simply does. > > > "Most important, however, was the observation that the stopping > distances during the braking manoeuvres were not any shorter in the > presence of ABS than with standard brakes." > > http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html > Perhaps, but being one study and the fact that there's lots of room for problems with the method used for experimentation. Taking people out of the equation and just using an automated device for example would give uniform results. That's if one included a method for such a device to detect when brakes are locked without ABS present and can react in human reation times. ABS reacts faster to such and that's why any discussion saying it doesn't work better is going to be met with scepticism from me. I also don't particularly like that it's a psychologist massaging the data. Another thing is that people make errors in real world situations. So even if they did better things than the ABS for slowing down, there'd still be that factor making it worse on occasion. >> >> > If you want to drive at the edge of oversteer and understeer, hit >> > the off button. >> >> When there *is* one. There isn't far more often than the reverse. And >> do *don't* turn it off for such. Just the reverse. I assume you're >> talking about Traction control here - the above appeared after my sig >> and no wher > e >> near any relevant paragraph of mine. > > I was talking about ESC, sorry for the confusion. > >> >> > Your bizarre opinions don;t change the facts: 1 person will die for >> > every 1500 or so new motor vehicles sold without ESC between now >> > and the start of the 2012 model year (when it's mandated). >> >> You have an actual study to back this up? > > European, NHTSA and IIHS field studies show about a 1/3 reduction in > fatalities for ESC. The average risk > for a motor vehicle is 1/500, hence 1/1500. > Which could simply be the fact that the SUV's don't flip over because the driver doesn't ever find out what is needed to so such without ESC. Hence my use of the term crutch. >> >> I'll tell you what will give you even better stats: ban consumer SUV >> purchases in cases where they're not actually needed. By SUV's I >> mean: crossovers, minivans, what are *actually* called SUV's, vans >> and trucks. All the above serve a purpose, but are rarely bought for >> such. > > ESC has roughly equalized the risk for SUVs vs sedans. > I don't doubt that. That's the whole point of it: stopping roll by taking control out of the driver's hands. It still doesn't make a SUV a good design for emergencies on an equal playing field however. That is with *both* without ESC of course. In addition, there can be mistakes in the code of ESC which make it worse than a proper test driver would do in the same situation. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) |
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