A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Jeep
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 14th 05, 02:23 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?

I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
this be done?
Thanks,
Mike Francis

Ads
  #2  
Old January 14th 05, 07:29 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Mike,
Since this happened after you change shoes I'd look to their
adjustment. I do it on assembly, hand turning the star until I can just
fit the drum on. The final adjustments with each stop in reverse. The
adjusters are left and right threaded so it is very important they be
reinstalled on the correct side. If you have to replace the master
cylinder try your best to bleed it at it's fittings and not allow air to
be pumped into the system. If there is air in the pump, then with the
ignition off pump the brake pedal thirty times to release the two
thousand pounds pressure stored in the accumulator, then it may bleed
normally.?
http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Te...bs_brakes.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

wrote:
>
> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
> this be done?
> Thanks,
> Mike Francis

  #3  
Old January 14th 05, 08:27 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually
need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working.
The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after
hitting them in the forward direction to cock it.

This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost
all the way out.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

wrote:
>
> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
> this be done?
> Thanks,
> Mike Francis

  #4  
Old January 14th 05, 11:57 PM
DougW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

did pass the time by typing:
> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
> this be done?


That section only applies if you get air into the system or want to do
a full up flush. You don't need the DRBII to bleed just the calipers.

What you do need to do is double check you put the adjustment stars in
the correct side and that the pads have been adjusted out so the drum
just slides on with a smidge of friction. To me it sounds like your
pads are not adjusted properly.

To adjust the brakes simply tug up on the emergency brake handle a
few times till it firms up about half way up. If they are way loose
this can take quite a few tugs.

--
DougW


  #5  
Old January 15th 05, 12:32 AM
Mike Becker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:27:10 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:

> You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually
> need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working.
> The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after
> hitting them in the forward direction to cock it.


Just to add to this - when I replaced my shoes I didn't replace the
auto-adjuster springs. For several months after I would hand adjust them
out every few weeks only to have the brake pedal start sinking again and a
knocking sound produced from the drums.

I found some auto-adjuster rebuild kits at Napa (includes new springs and
adjuster bolt) and put them on, and they've been working great ever since.
If you still have a problem with them after you do what Mike suggested and
you don't mind getting back into the drums, you might give those kits a
shot. The springs get pretty tired over time.

--
becker;
email = remove the fruit;
  #6  
Old January 16th 05, 12:10 AM
SteveBrady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
my rear brakes to be adjusted.
And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old
wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't
catch on.

I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star'
but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse
thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me?


"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually
> need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working.
> The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after
> hitting them in the forward direction to cock it.
>
> This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost
> all the way out.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
>> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
>> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
>> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
>> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
>> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
>> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
>> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
>> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
>> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
>> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
>> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
>> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
>> this be done?
>> Thanks,
>> Mike Francis



  #7  
Old January 16th 05, 12:44 AM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have
automatic adjusters!

The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from
this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug.

The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to
front.

So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their
'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes
move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little
arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward
again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded,
so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel.

I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and
my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out.

My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any.
They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc.

Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe.

Mike

SteveBrady wrote:
>
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
> my rear brakes to be adjusted.
> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old
> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't
> catch on.
>
> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star'
> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse
> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me?
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually
> > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working.
> > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after
> > hitting them in the forward direction to cock it.
> >
> > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost
> > all the way out.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
> >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and
> >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
> >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
> >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I
> >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
> >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
> >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was
> >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
> >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
> >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
> >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
> >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
> >> this be done?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mike Francis

  #8  
Old January 16th 05, 01:59 AM
DougW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

SteveBrady did pass the time by typing:
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
> my rear brakes to be adjusted.
> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old
> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't
> catch on.


That mechanic is about as full of **** as the U.S. sewer system during
SuperBowl half-time.

> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star'
> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse
> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me?


http://www.dippy.org/svcman/sm05b.html

With some systems you can tug on the e-brake and adjust them a bit quicker.

--
DougW



  #9  
Old January 16th 05, 02:08 AM
SteveBrady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike, I hope you have this newsgroup on a 7second delay so you can catch my
cussing!

that's the 2nd time they've tried to bend me over....They are better than
the dealership though....so other choices go for ma/pa shops I guess.

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have
> automatic adjusters!
>
> The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from
> this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug.
>
> The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to
> front.
>
> So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their
> 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes
> move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little
> arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward
> again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded,
> so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel.
>
> I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and
> my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out.
>
> My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any.
> They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc.
>
> Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe.
>
> Mike
>
> SteveBrady wrote:
>>
>> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I
>> needed
>> my rear brakes to be adjusted.
>> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an
>> old
>> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't
>> catch on.
>>
>> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting
>> 'star'
>> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse
>> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me?
>>
>> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually
>> > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working.
>> > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after
>> > hitting them in the forward direction to cock it.
>> >
>> > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or
>> > almost
>> > all the way out.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the
>> >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend
>> >> and
>> >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I
>> >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they
>> >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again
>> >> I
>> >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I
>> >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is
>> >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I
>> >> was
>> >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in
>> >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II
>> >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed
>> >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car
>> >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can
>> >> this be done?
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Mike Francis



  #10  
Old January 16th 05, 02:48 AM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think you may see it look at:
http://www.billhughes.com/44axlebearing.jpg Imagine the the shoes
expanding away from the cylinder, driving forward the rear piston is
mostly for looks as the the whole shoe assembly rotate against the top
anchor, but in reverse it rotates the other way, (clockwise in this
picture of a left side) and the rear shoe pulls away from the top anchor
that the adjusting cable is hook to, pulling the adjusting lever up at
the end of that shoe and cocking it, so that when the cable is released
the return spring will pull the lever back into the rest position
turning it one notch. It would take hundreds of stops in reverse to
adjust shoes not pre adjusted on installation.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/44axlebearing.jpg

SteveBrady wrote:
>
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
> my rear brakes to be adjusted.
> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old
> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't
> catch on.
>
> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star'
> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse
> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me?

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
replacing 98 caravan brakes Steve Chrysler 12 December 20th 04 03:29 AM
Brakes Lock and Won't Let Go, 94 Grand Voyager - Help before they get me killed. Jim Ashburn Dodge 10 July 22nd 04 02:10 AM
202 Dodge Dakota 4X4 Brakes Randy Harbison Dodge 0 July 21st 04 02:31 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2018 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.