'88 Grand Wagon frame rusted

Sad story...
My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years,
apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In
the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says
that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd
love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't
have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How
involved? Expensive?

Thansk in advance.

Mark Corbelli wrote:
> Sad story...
> My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years,
> apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In
> the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says
> that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd
> love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't
> have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How
> involved? Expensive?
>
> Thansk in advance.
>
>

I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal
'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has
crystallized.

I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is
fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago.

The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the
area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be
worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub
without cutting or snapping....

Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The
wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt
the center bolt.

When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to
plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body
goes back on.

I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was
gold plated.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
ng.com...
> Mark Corbelli wrote:
> > Sad story...
> > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18
years,
> > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection.
In
> > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now
says
> > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired.
I'd
> > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you
don't
> > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration?
How
> > involved? Expensive?
> >
> > Thansk in advance.
> >
> >
>
> I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal
> 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has
> crystallized.
>
> I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is
> fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago.
>
> The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the
> area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be
> worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub
> without cutting or snapping....
>
> Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The
> wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt
> the center bolt.
>
> When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to
> plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body
> goes back on.
>
> I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was
> gold plated.
>
For a Wagoneer? Good luck. I've seen some relatively intact vehicles in
New Mexico and Colorado used car lots, but they think the whole vehicle is
gold plated. There's an older one north of Durango on 550 with a for sale
for $500 sign on the windshield...

Earle

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli"
> wrote:

>Sad story...
>My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years,
>apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In
>the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says
>that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd
>love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't
>have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How
>involved? Expensive?
>
>Thansk in advance.
>


There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that
vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the
point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but
prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to
this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It
do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same
basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would
suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to
use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look
into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is
extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last
the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is
worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time.
Sturdy vehicle too.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Saw this article recently, local paper

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html



On Apr 14, 12:25 pm, SnoMan > wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli"
>
> > wrote:
> >Sad story...
> >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years,
> >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In
> >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says
> >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd
> >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't
> >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How
> >involved? Expensive?
>
> >Thansk in advance.
>
> There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that
> vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the
> point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but
> prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to
> this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It
> do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same
> basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would
> suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to
> use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look
> into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is
> extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last
> the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is
> worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time.
> Sturdy vehicle too.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

On 15 Apr 2007 12:21:49 -0700, "Howard" >
wrote:

>Saw this article recently, local paper
>
>http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html


There is another guy that has built a big bussiness out of buying,
refurbing and reselling them too for top dollar and has no shortage of
buyers. As I recall he is somewhere around texas.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't
pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is
and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has
enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and
pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any
further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour
job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the
old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car
for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find
a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine,
180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs
well, and most everything still works.

Mark,

Well, suffice it to say you're looking at a fair bill to swap out that
frame -- I think the hour figure is high since most likely you will be
purchasing a wrecked/rolling chassis -- so you don't swap every
assembly in the process, you roll the old one out and roll the new one
under. So you're looking at labor, a rolling chassis, one or two
tows, and every nut, bolt, and replaceable assembly that gets touched
in the proce$$....a number that eclipses the value of a good example
from a rust-free area.

For the record (as someone who worked/killed time in one), I think you
really need to take it by a local welding shop before you park it for
good -- if I'm correct in interpreting your mechanic's issues, there
is no structural issue with the frame rails (Otherwise you'd have
suspension problems or bumpers that fall off), and the crossmembers
are what have rotted off. If that's correct, there's no reason why a
local welding shop can't put together something that will outlast the
rest of the vehicle....and for a fraction of the price. And while
your'e in there, it's a great opportunity to do some rust prevention
in the vicinity.

I'll stop here...

Jon

Mark Corbelli wrote:
> I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't
> pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is
> and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has
> enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and
> pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any
> further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour
> job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the
> old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car
> for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find
> a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine,
> 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs
> well, and most everything still works.
>
>

I will also agree about going to a professional welding shop or even a
trade school for frame repairs. The pros are usually better and cheaper
than a mechanic for welding repairs. A few well placed patches have
kept my frame going for an amazingly long time. Plus I don't really
bash it off road anymore due to injuries from a car accident.

Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic do all the
labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last century, I had a
rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my time and put all the
new lines and things on it. It is really not that hard to do when you
have the old parts as a guide and no body in the way.

I also stripped the old frame down and put a coat of that 'rust
converter' stuff on it with a rubberized overcoat to slow down future
rust. I will have to say it worked seeing as I am still driving her 7-8
years later.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
g.com...
....
> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic
> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last
> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my
> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not
> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no
> body in the way.
>
I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled,
welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you
need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic
this guy has is over his head, really.

Earle