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5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 18th 05, 04:13 AM
Del Cecchi
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Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi


"B1ackwater" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:19:31 -0500, "MaryL"
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>>
>>"B1ackwater" > wrote in message
.. .
>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:28:21 -0500, "MaryL"
>>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE" > wrote in
>>>>message
m...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9718085/
>>>>>
>>>>> 5 killed in Wisconsin school bus crash
>>>>> 29 injured in morning collision with tractor-trailer; NTSB
>>>>>
>>>>> Updated: 6:43 p.m. ET Oct. 16, 2005
>>>>> OSSEO, Wis. - A bus carrying high school students home from a band
>>>>> competition crashed into a tractor-trailer that had jackknifed on
>>>>> the
>>>>> interstate early Sunday, killing four adults and an 11-year-old
>>>>> girl,
>>>>> officials said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twenty-nine others were injured, some seriously, troopers said.
>>>>>
>>>>> The semi had gone off the shoulder of Interstate 94 and jackknifed,
>>>>> and was blocking the westbound lane, Wisconsin State Patrol Capt.
>>>>> Douglas Notbohm said.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I don't know how much opportunity there was for braking action,"
>>>>> he
>>>>> said. The bus slammed into the overturned truck, but it didn't roll
>>>>> or
>>>>> catch fire, patrol spokesman Brent Pickard said.
>>>>>
>>>>> (snip)
>>>>>
>>>>> Bus driver Paul Rasmus, 78, of Chippewa Falls, died in the crash.
>>>>> The
>>>>> identities of the other victims - two men, ages 48 and 24, a
>>>>> 51-year-old woman and the girl - were withheld pending notification
>>>>> of
>>>>> their families.
>>>>>
>>>>> The semi driver, employed by Whole Foods Market Group of Munster,
>>>>> Ind., was en route from Indiana to Minnesota, Notbohm said. The
>>>>> driver
>>>>> was hospitalized with non-life threatening injuries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Officials didn't know why the truck went off the shoulder and
>>>>> overturned. The driver told investigators he had not fallen asleep,
>>>>> Notbohm said, and Pickard said the road was dry at the time of the
>>>>> crash.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Hell, this happened on a freeway where you can always see a problem
>>>>> like this in time to stop. Wonder if this geezer driver just froze
>>>>> up
>>>>> or maybe he had a heart attack. Lettting a guy this old drive a
>>>>> school bus sounds kinda stupid to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You infer that the age of the bus driver was a factor. It may have
>>>>been,
>>>>but I don't see any evidence of that in the reports that have been
>>>>printed
>>>>so far. The truck apparently jackknifed *in front of* the bus, and
>>>>that
>>>>seems to be a much more obvious cause. The article says the semi
>>>>went off
>>>>the shoulder and overturned, but that type of accident could also
>>>>involve
>>>>part of the actual road surface. That is, it isn't necessarily the
>>>>type
>>>>of
>>>>accident where a driver following behind could move to the side and
>>>>avoid
>>>>the accident. I do wonder if excessive speed or following too close
>>>>were
>>>>factors (again, nothing in the article to indicate this as yet).
>>>
>>> It was a freeway - of COURSE everybody was driving really fast
>>> and following too closely.
>>>
>>> As for 'visibility' - in freeway driving you have to compromise
>>> your attentions somewhat. You can't JUST scan the horizon for
>>> overturned trucks because you must also keep a finer track on
>>> vehicles in your immediate vicinity. If anyone switches lanes,
>>> speeds up, slows down or does anything to draw attention to
>>> themselves, all nearby drivers have to stop looking far ahead
>>> and pay attention to the proximate vehicle.
>>>

>>
>>Basically, I agree (although I certainly *try* to *increase* my
>>attention
>>during freeway driving because it can be so dangerous).

>
> Hey, I ride motorcycles pretty much exclusively ... so
> TELL me about it !
>
>>However, the point
>>I was trying to make is that there is no reason (based on current
>>reports)
>>to blame the accident on the bus driver's age. I added some "possible"
>>additional factors, but I hope it was clear from my response that I
>>think
>>the primary (and perhaps only) cause was the fact that the semi
>>jackknifed.

>
> I wouldn't jump on the drivers age either. Older drivers can
> be very sharp and experienced - or soft in the noggin. Some
> states don't seem to care one way or another - 'retirement'
> states are the worst in that respect.
>
> Note too that bus drivers have to FURTHER sub-divide their
> attention, not only watching traffic near and far but ALSO
> trying to manage a busload of punks at the same time. Easy
> to miss an approaching threat for a critical few seconds ...
>


You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The
truck jacknifed and was laying on its side blocking both lanes. The kids
were mostly asleep. This was the lead bus in a convoy returning from a
competition. The truck driver was 22 and reportedly had a suspended
driver's license.

If there was a wall that suddenly appeared on the freeway in the middle
of the night, could all you always stop by the time you noticed the dark
shape in your headlights? Remember they don't put lights or reflectors
on the bottom of a trailer.

Crosspost list looks a little troll oriented so I trimmed. Hard to see
what this has to do with politics.


Ads
  #2  
Old October 18th 05, 01:01 PM
The Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend Blade
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Posts: n/a
Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend:


> > You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
> > occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway.

>
> Unlighted?? Ever hear of headlights?


You ****ing moron. Ever driven on an unlighted highway?? Didn't think so.
Ever hear of the definition of "black?" Didn't think so.

> Sheesh. Another criminal coddler calling this an "accident". Both the
> truck driver and bus driver belong in prison. Five people are dead!!!!


So the **** what? You don't wanna take risks? STAY HOME!

> > Crosspost list looks a little troll oriented so I trimmed. Hard to see
> > what this has to do with politics.

>
> Laura bush is a highway killer too. That's the connection to
> politics,you criminal coddler.


This crap of yours has nothing to do with any of the groups, you ****ing
retarded piece of ****. This isn't alt.trucking.unlicensed or
misc.busses.crash.into.a.wall, you tick turd. Which part of
rec.AUTOS.driving don't you understand, you buffoon? And who gives a
flying **** about Laura Bush anyways? She don't hold no stupid office,
you imbicle!

BTW, why don't you get on that stupid soapbox of yours about that DHMO
**** that that other guy was talking about. That **** kills more people
than a car could in its wildest dreams. Or don't you give a rats ass
about saving lives, mother ****er??
  #3  
Old October 18th 05, 02:44 PM
Scott en Aztlán
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Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:13:48 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
> wrote:

>>>>>> The semi had gone off the shoulder of Interstate 94 and jackknifed,
>>>>>> and was blocking the westbound lane, Wisconsin State Patrol Capt.
>>>>>> Douglas Notbohm said.

>
>You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
>occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The
>truck jacknifed and was laying on its side blocking both lanes.


Not according to the story that started this thread = it very clearly
says LANE, as in ONE lane.

>This was the lead bus in a convoy returning from a competition.


Hmm.. So how many other buses in that convoy crashed?

>The truck driver was 22 and reportedly had a suspended
>driver's license.


Irrelevant. He could just as easily have been 45 with a spotless
record. The deer that wanders across the road in front of your truck
(and there are a ****LOAD of them in the Osseo area) doesn't
discriminate based on your driving record.

>If there was a wall that suddenly appeared on the freeway in the middle
>of the night, could all you always stop by the time you noticed the dark
>shape in your headlights?


If you're the second bus in a convoy, when the first bus hits the
"wall" it becomes a "wall" for you. The second bus becomes a "wall"
for the third bus, and so on down the line. Yet ALL of those other bus
drivers managed to avoid ALL those "walls" and stop safely. Why?

  #4  
Old October 18th 05, 06:55 PM
Paul.
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Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:13:48 -0500, Del Cecchi >
said the following in rec.autos.driving...


> Crosspost list looks a little troll oriented


Do ya really think so?

> Hard to see what this has to do with politics.


Hard to see what it has to do with anything...



--
Paul.

Self appointed unofficial overseer
of kooks and trolls in rec.autos.driving
and eternal roamer of the dark side of
usenet #6.659 (gas price of the beast).
  #5  
Old October 19th 05, 12:15 AM
DTJ
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Posts: n/a
Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:13:48 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
> wrote:

>You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
>occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The


So the reason for the accident was that the parents were too ****ing
stupid, and allowed their kids to be on a ****ing school bus without
seat belts at 2 in the morning.
  #6  
Old October 19th 05, 02:18 AM
Matthew Russotto
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Posts: n/a
Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

In article >,
Del Cecchi > wrote:
>
>You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
>occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The
>truck jacknifed and was laying on its side blocking both lanes. The kids
>were mostly asleep. This was the lead bus in a convoy returning from a
>competition. The truck driver was 22 and reportedly had a suspended
>driver's license.
>
>If there was a wall that suddenly appeared on the freeway in the middle
>of the night, could all you always stop by the time you noticed the dark
>shape in your headlights? Remember they don't put lights or reflectors
>on the bottom of a trailer.


If the wall suddenly appeared, no. If the wall was there before I
came within sight of it, sure. If I couldn't, it would mean I was
either seriously overdriving my headlights or wasn't paying sufficient
attention for some reason -- so-called "highway hypnosis" being one
likely reason.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
  #7  
Old October 19th 05, 02:23 AM
The Real Bev
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Posts: n/a
Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

DTJ wrote:
>
> > wrote:
>
> >You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
> >occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The

>
> So the reason for the accident was that the parents were too ****ing
> stupid, and allowed their kids to be on a ****ing school bus without
> seat belts at 2 in the morning.


Tell me where school buses have seat belts. Not around here.

--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
Warning -- Driver carries less than $20 worth of ammunition
  #8  
Old October 20th 05, 03:36 AM
DTJ
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Posts: n/a
Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:18:20 -0500,
(Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>In article >,
>Del Cecchi > wrote:
>>
>>You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
>>occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The
>>truck jacknifed and was laying on its side blocking both lanes. The kids
>>were mostly asleep. This was the lead bus in a convoy returning from a
>>competition. The truck driver was 22 and reportedly had a suspended
>>driver's license.
>>
>>If there was a wall that suddenly appeared on the freeway in the middle
>>of the night, could all you always stop by the time you noticed the dark
>>shape in your headlights? Remember they don't put lights or reflectors
>>on the bottom of a trailer.

>
>If the wall suddenly appeared, no. If the wall was there before I
>came within sight of it, sure. If I couldn't, it would mean I was
>either seriously overdriving my headlights or wasn't paying sufficient
>attention for some reason -- so-called "highway hypnosis" being one
>likely reason.


I think it is possible, and even reasonable, to be driving perfectly
safely, yet still hit a truck in a situation similar to this.

For example, there are areas where it is exceeding dark. There are
nights without a moon or stars. There are areas where few cars are.
In such an area, when cresting a hill, you might not be able to stop.

However, every circumstantial thing I have read leads me to believe
the bus driver screwed up to some degree, and likely a large degree.
  #9  
Old October 20th 05, 03:43 AM
DTJ
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Default 5 killed as 78 year old bus driver hits jackknifed semi

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:23:19 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote:

>DTJ wrote:
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >You guys are all idiots or pretending to be idiots. The accident
>> >occurred at 2 in the morning on a unlighted stretch of freeway. The

>>
>> So the reason for the accident was that the parents were too ****ing
>> stupid, and allowed their kids to be on a ****ing school bus without
>> seat belts at 2 in the morning.

>
>Tell me where school buses have seat belts. Not around here.


Bev, that was exactly my point (or one of them). Ignoring the others,
driving without a seatbelt is dangerous, and no child should have to
die because the government won't mandate seat belts. Talk about the
NEA and big business being out of control. In any case, add this to
circumstances that one would strive to keep children from:

Being on the road at 2:00 AM. A time when it is far more likely to
encounter a drunk driver.

They were driven by someone who undoubtedly was tired.

The driver was old.

The kids were thought to be sleeping (no background noise to keep
driver up, nor someone to talk to him and watch to see he is awake)

Unlighted stretch of highway, which combined with the elderly driver
allows us to assume his probable lack of night vision made him a
higher safety risk than others.

Shall I go on? It ****es me off to hear of any child dying because of
stupidity. A lot of stupid people contributed to this, including the
parents, school, state licensing, federal government, et cetera. Yet
in the end, the parent makes the call as to whether the child goes.
 




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