AWD versus ESP

Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
60mph?

On Dec 17, 12:46 pm, lagman > wrote:
> Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> 60mph?


If there's a possibility of ice, and you're doing 60, the cars primary
safety system has already failed.

In any case, a comparison of technology based on meaningless terms
(automakers love confusopolies) won't be helpful.

Whose AWD? Whose ESC/TC/RM?

Art a guess, I'd say active stability systems may work better than
nothing, or may not, in that situation.

Dave

On Dec 17, 11:46 am, lagman > wrote:
> Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> 60mph?

If you're stupid enough to try braking, turning, or accelerating while
on ice at that speed, neither is likely to save you. If you're smart
enough to do none of those things, either will 'save you'.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Who drives a 'dumb' AWD Jeep)

lagman wrote:

> Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> 60mph?

Ahhhh....

Another idiot who thinks electronics can save him from his bad driving.

Graham

wrote:

> On Dec 17, 12:46 pm, lagman > wrote:
> > Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> > equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> > Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> > keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> > 60mph?
>
> If there's a possibility of ice, and you're doing 60, the cars primary
> safety system has already failed.
>
> In any case, a comparison of technology based on meaningless terms
> (automakers love confusopolies) won't be helpful.
>
> Whose AWD? Whose ESC/TC/RM?
>
> Art a guess, I'd say active stability systems may work better than
> nothing, or may not, in that situation.

At 60 on sheet ice you're going to crash whatever gadgets the car has.

Graham

Around 12/17/2007 5:28 PM, Eeyore wrote:

> lagman wrote:
>
>> Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
>> equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
>> Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
>> keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
>> 60mph?
>
> Ahhhh....
>
> Another idiot who thinks electronics can save him from his bad driving.
>
> Graham

Looks like.



The OP's choice is null anyway. As I understand the various systems,
traction control/ESP is not possible with part-time 4x4 (when in 4x4
mode) since both the front and rear axles are locked together through
the transfer case with no differentiation possible without breakage. To
have traction control/ESP, I believe you need either full-time 4x4, AWD,
or 2WD.


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
--H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

On Dec 17, 7:28 pm, Eeyore >
wrote:
> lagman wrote:
> > Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> > equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> > Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> > keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> > 60mph?
>
> Ahhhh....
>
> Another idiot who thinks electronics can save him from his bad driving.
>
> Graham

The temps here get below freezing in December and usually do not get
above freezing until spring. I have seen patches of ice left over
(even on interstates) from storms that happened weeks ago. It sounds
like you are suggesting that people in the northern states shouldn't
be driving the speed limit at all in the winter, even when the roads
are 99.99% clear of ice and snow (try going less than 60 during rush
hour in Minneapolis and I guarantee you will get run off the road).
In my opinion, an "idiot" would be someone who drives 60mph during or
shortly after an ice storm. If the roads have been cleared and
salted, and the DOT says they are in good driving condition, I see no
reason not to go the speed limit.

I have read that govenment tests show ESC to be very effective,
especially on SUVs. In fact, there is a proposal to have all cars
equipped with this technology by 2012. I haven't done much research
on AWD.

There is no replacement for good winter driving skills, but I'd just
like to know which technology out there will give me more control
should the .001% chance happen and I hit an ice patch.

On Dec 17, 12:22 pm, wrote:
> On Dec 17, 12:46 pm, lagman > wrote:
>
> > Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> > equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> > Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> > keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> > 60mph?
>
> If there's a possibility of ice, and you're doing 60, the cars primary
> safety system has already failed.
>
> In any case, a comparison of technology based on meaningless terms
> (automakers love confusopolies) won't be helpful.
>
> Whose AWD? Whose ESC/TC/RM?
>
> Art a guess, I'd say active stability systems may work better than
> nothing, or may not, in that situation.
>
> Dave

As I mentioned in my reply to Garth/Graham, where I live there is
always the possibility of ice, since it stays below freezing pretty
much all winter. People here do drive at freeway speeds during the
winter, smart people slow down or stay off the road during snow/ice
storms.

I am trying to compare Chrysler's ESC/TC/RM to, for example, the AWD
all of the Subarus have standard.

Thanks,
Dan

On Dec 18, 11:08 am, lagman > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 12:22 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 12:46 pm, lagman > wrote:
>
> > > Between a SUV equipped with All Wheel Drive, versus the same SUV
> > > equipped with part time 4WD, Electronic Stability Control/Traction
> > > Control/Roll Mitigation, which one (if either) will do a better job at
> > > keeping me out of the ditch here in Iowa when I hit an ice patch at
> > > 60mph?
>
> > If there's a possibility of ice, and you're doing 60, the cars primary
> > safety system has already failed.
>
> > In any case, a comparison of technology based on meaningless terms
> > (automakers love confusopolies) won't be helpful.
>
> > Whose AWD? Whose ESC/TC/RM?
>
> > Art a guess, I'd say active stability systems may work better than
> > nothing, or may not, in that situation.
>
> > Dave
>
> As I mentioned in my reply to Garth/Graham, where I live there is
> always the possibility of ice, since it stays below freezing pretty
> much all winter. People here do drive at freeway speeds during the
> winter, smart people slow down or stay off the road during snow/ice
> storms.
>
> I am trying to compare Chrysler's ESC/TC/RM to, for example, the AWD
> all of the Subarus have standard.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan


AWD doesn't really do anything except let you move when there's little
traction to be had- something I make use of in my subie quite often
here near syracuse NY. AWD is just better-mannered 4-wheel drive.

The active systems (subaru has one as well, VDC, not on all models)
may give you a better shot at retaining control, but if its ice, the
car is just going to do whatever it wants to do.

Under those conditions, I'll take my outback with just the AWD over
any suv with whatever electronic system it may have, becuase after you
hit that ice and you're a bit sideways, that SUV is going over.

Dave

On Dec 17, 7:29 pm, Eeyore >
wrote:
>
> At 60 on sheet ice you're going to crash whatever gadgets the car has.

Haven't gotten any smarter in all the time I haven't been here, eh,
Graham?
--
C.R. Krieger
(Done it lots of times)