Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

> During the whole API debate they lied repeatedly. They came up with
> amazing fabrications about why they didn't certify their oils, including
> lying about the cost of certification, and lying about being worried
> about API leaking the formulation of their synthetic. As it turned out,
> the real reason was that they knew they couldn't get certified because
> of the level of ZDDP.
>


BTW, where did this debate you refer to take place? I'd like to go
back and read the archive of it.

SMS wrote:
> Mark A wrote:
>> "HiC" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>>> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>>
>> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone
>> will argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money
>> (but I think you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use
>> synthetic). Some of the other companies are trying to compete against
>> Mobil 1 more heavily, and you may be able to find some good deals in a
>> full synthetic.
>
> The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline is
> still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not.
>


Royal Purple is full synthetic, but I've heard/experienced sludge
problems when switching in a car that uses conventional for a long time.
There are a couple of other rather unknowns out there as well and note
that Amsoil XL7500 is a semi-synthetic like Syntec which from my
singular experience is crap. I knew Mobil 1 had been reformulated and
had heard it was not as good as it was, but did not know it was now
semi-synthetic. Got any links on that?

C. E. White wrote:
>
> "SMS" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mark A wrote:
>>> "HiC" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>>>> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>>>
>>> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone
>>> will argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money
>>> (but I think you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't
>>> use synthetic). Some of the other companies are trying to compete
>>> against Mobil 1 more heavily, and you may be able to find some good
>>> deals in a full synthetic.
>>
>> The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline is
>> still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not.
>
> Care to elaborate on the claim that Mobil 1 scold in the US is no longer
> a full synthetic. The follow claim comes from the Mobil 1 Web Site:
>
> "Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
>
> "Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's
> specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
> uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along
> with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
> viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and
> selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its
> specific application."
>
> And be careful when you say "Amsoil" is a full synthetic. Some Amsoil
> products are, some are not (the XL oils for instance).
>
> Ed

And AFAIK only the XL7500 is not full synthetic. It used to be
referred to as such until Castrol won their claim from some idiot judge.
IMO hydro-cracked mineral oil is extremely pure, but it is not synthetic.

HLS wrote:
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
>> They're out there, in spades. The aftermarket frequently comes up with
>> "problem solver" replacement parts a long time before the OEM even
>> fesses up to a defect (particularly Toyota, which never admits
>> anything until the numbers are overwhelming and the internet is on
>> fire with complaints).
>
> One of my FLAPS friends told me that they have to do better, or they would
> be out of business. You couldnt sell OEM problematic plenums in the
> aftermarket
> for nearly ten years.....Your customers would take your scalp.
>
> I can remember a time when Chrysler put out a long series of substandard
> master
> cylinders...The cure was to replace it with EIS or some other
> aftermarket unit.
>
> There are many examples of this.

Like Fel-Pro having MLS head gaskets available for problematic Honda,
Chrysler, and Toyota engines at least 2 years before any one of them
admitted that there was a need for such a change from the traditional
head gaskets.

In article >, WindsorFox <[SS]> wrote:
>
> Royal Purple is full synthetic, but I've heard/experienced sludge
>problems when switching in a car that uses conventional for a long time.

The Royal Purple motor oil is very effective as a solvent, and it will
indeed remove varnish and crap from your engine that it can't keep in
solution. This is a good thing but you have to watch it, as you note.

Interestingly their gear oil does not seem to be as effective a solvent
for old varnish than the Red Line gear oil.

>There are a couple of other rather unknowns out there as well and note
>that Amsoil XL7500 is a semi-synthetic like Syntec which from my
>singular experience is crap. I knew Mobil 1 had been reformulated and
>had heard it was not as good as it was, but did not know it was now
>semi-synthetic. Got any links on that?

I think the problem is that there are a whole bunch of Mobil 1 products
available under different names and the stuff from the industrial and
automotive distributors are different.

I believe that Castrol does still make one real synthetic for the US market,
and I think it's the one they are marketing as 5W-40, but I am not positive
on that one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Ed White wrote:

>
> NAPA Gold = Wix. The P/Ns are even obviously related.

Ditto CarQuest "house brand" filters. Even the same relationship to the
part number (first couple of digits indicates the reseller, the rest of
the P/N is the application).

Note however that NAPA "Silver" filters are NOT made by Wix. I don't
know who makes them.



Wix filters are good
> quality filter at a price comparable to Fram's cheapest filters ( the PH
> line). The quality of the materials used is far superior and WIX even
> provides actual performance information (for an example see
> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51372 ). Fram
> just provides advertising copy for their filters that is virtually content
> free.

In fairness to Fram, that's only true of their automotive filters. They
have a line of industrial filters that are well-documented and seem to
come from a different planet (or at least a different manufacturing
plant on the same planet) than their consumer grade products. The thing
I like about Wix is that their product line is more seamless- the
consumer-grade products are documented just like the industrial products.

Of course that could all change next year. Federal-Mogul, for example,
used to be a name you could trust on face value in parts. Now they sell
a whole lot of made-in-China junk. You can't trust entirely in past
performance anymore, unfortunately.

C. E. White wrote:

> And be careful when you say "Amsoil" is a full synthetic. Some Amsoil
> products are, some are not (the XL oils for instance).

Yes, my mistake. Amsoil change the XL-7500 in 2002 to a non-synthetic
base stock, stating that to remain competitive in price with Mobil 1
(which also changed to non-synthetic base stock).

Only in the U.S. can oils with non-synthetic base stocks be legally
called synthetics. This was a result of Mobil suing Castrol for Castrol
claiming that their Syntec oil was a full synthetic even though it
didn't use synthetic base stock. Isn't our legal system wonderful!

Of course Amsoil's group III oils are the best! After all here's what
Amsoil said: "AMSOIL has selected the best quality Group III base oils
and spiked them with oxidation inhibitors and TBN. They have more gusto
than other Group III oils and are fully formulated for 7,500-mile drain
intervals."

Got that? The Amsoil oil has more _gusto_.

Mobil is very hush-hush about their formulation, but the Japanese Mobil
1 web site shows that the 0W30, 5W30 and 10W30 use group III (and group
IV), while the 0W20, 0W30, 0W40, and 15W50 are all group IV.

PAO+Catalytically Processed
---------------------------
http://www.mobil1.jp/products/01_ss_0w30.html
http://www.mobil1.jp/products/01_ss_10w30.html
http://www.mobil1.jp/products/01_ss_5w30.html

HiC wrote:
> On Nov 24, 2:02 am, HiC > wrote:
>> I see opinions of the "I swear by" type all over the map. Anyone know
>> of a good site that shows the truth about which brand/type of oil &
>> filter performs the best? Thinking in the passenger car realm.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters

Filters are a very gray area and rife with opinion. Bobistheoilguy.com
does a decent job of tracking oils in a more quantitative way. But you
have to read the forums there and see what people are finding in their
used oil analyses, its not very well summarized.

The other thing that becomes obvious is that some oils that seem to
perform flawlessly in some engines don't do so well in others (ie, show
larger amounts of wear metals in used oil analyses). There was a lot of
speculation that this had to do with low ZDDP oils in flat-tappet
engines, but now that's being somewhat called into question too. Its
just a REALLY complicated task to sort out the "best" oil.

Bottom line- any API-certified oil of the proper grade, changed at
regular intervals, and used with a name-brand filter also changed at
regular intervals will certainly not harm your engine. And since today
more than ever, engines usually outlast the plastic and electronics of
the cars they're inside, it really is something of a moot point.

SMS wrote:
> C. E. White wrote:
>
>> And be careful when you say "Amsoil" is a full synthetic. Some Amsoil
>> products are, some are not (the XL oils for instance).

Sorry, I hit the send key too soon.

Actually this is how it breaks down for Mobil 1, based on the web site
"http://www.mobil1.jp/products/index.html"

Group III and Group IV blend
---------
5W50
5W40
15W50
OW30
5W30
10W30

Group IV
--------
OW40

I think that they use the blended base stocks as a marketing tool, so
they can legally write that all their oils contain Group IV base stock.
Once Castrol won that lawsuit, it really put the pressure on Mobil and
Amsoil to switch to the less expensive, hydrocracked base stock.

Bottom line is that really there is no advantage to Group IV base stock
versus Group III base stock, verus dino base stock unless it's a high
performance engine, or the vehicle is operated in extremely cold
climates, or the owner is doing extended change intervals (as is very
common in Europe and Asia). With 5000 mile oil changes, there's no
long-term benefit to using a true synthetic or a Group III synthetic
over an API approved oil with non-synthetic base stock.

SMS wrote:
> Mark A wrote:
>> "HiC" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>>> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>>
>> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone
>> will argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money
>> (but I think you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use
>> synthetic). Some of the other companies are trying to compete against
>> Mobil 1 more heavily, and you may be able to find some good deals in a
>> full synthetic.
>
> The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic.

Got a citation for that? AFAIK, Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance
are still full synthetic. The confusion is that the Mobil-1 name is now
also applied to semi-synthetics like "Drive Clean 5000" or whatever they
call it.