Car Batteries and cold starts.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:46:56 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote:

||On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Warren Weber wrote:
||
||> I lived in cold mountain area for 13 years. Temp down to minus 40 F.
||
||Wow, minus forty Eff. What's that in Cee?

Cold. Damned cold

Texas Parts Guy

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:18:45 GMT, > wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:46:56 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote:

>||On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Warren Weber wrote:
>||
>||> I lived in cold mountain area for 13 years. Temp down to minus 40 F.
>||
>||Wow, minus forty Eff. What's that in Cee?

>Cold. Damned cold

-40F==-40C

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:35:06 -0500, Mike Romain >
wrote:

>If you mess up a connection, it can cost big time on new vehicles, lots
>of things can pop including the battery so you have to be careful.

Positives first, then boostee minus pole and then booster's chassis ground
point not too far from the battery, remove in reverse order, isn't good
enough any more?

Jasper

food for thought...x-mas eve was 25 below here in Minnesota.
Incedently, i've never used block heaters but have simply relied on
using no more than 5w-30 motor oil.I got up that morning and started
everybody's cars, brought them to op temp then shut them down. Later
that day, my son complained that he was unable to start his vehicle (93
concorde) I thot that was strange due to the fact it started fine
earlier when it was even colder.U can just see ol' dad showing his son
the finer points of jumping a car! I hooked-up the cables and cranked
that car for all she was worth to no avail.Come hell or high water, I
was goin to show my son that i could damn sure jump a car. Unbeknownst
to me when i had successfully fired it up earlier that morning, ice
had formed on the belt pulleys and the charging belt had slipped off. I
inadvertently ran the vehicle up to temp before shutting it down an d
am assuming that i took most of the batteries life during that
time...coulple that with freezing temps thruout the day left that
supply system depleted to say the least. Now, when i went to jump the
concorde, the load was simply to much. not only was i supplying the
current for my vehicle but i was providing ALL of the concordes'
starting and charging needs as well, and this proved too much for my
105 amp alternator. I did finally get his car started but at the
expense of my alternator. I have a feeling that if the concordes belt
was on, at the time i was jumping it, #1 his battery wud not have been
as depleted, and #2 his alternator wud have supplied at least some
current so mine would not of had to supply ALL the current. For
christmas, he got a brand new 1000 cca battery, and dad got a rebuilt
alternator.

"gobroncos" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> food for thought...x-mas eve was 25 below here in Minnesota.
> Incedently, i've never used block heaters but have simply relied on
> using no more than 5w-30 motor oil.I got up that morning and started
> everybody's cars, brought them to op temp then shut them down. Later
> that day, my son complained that he was unable to start his vehicle (93
> concorde) I thot that was strange due to the fact it started fine
> earlier when it was even colder.U can just see ol' dad showing his son
> the finer points of jumping a car! I hooked-up the cables and cranked
> that car for all she was worth to no avail.Come hell or high water, I
> was goin to show my son that i could damn sure jump a car. Unbeknownst
> to me when i had successfully fired it up earlier that morning, ice
> had formed on the belt pulleys and the charging belt had slipped off. I
> inadvertently ran the vehicle up to temp before shutting it down an d
> am assuming that i took most of the batteries life during that
> time...coulple that with freezing temps thruout the day left that
> supply system depleted to say the least. Now, when i went to jump the
> concorde, the load was simply to much. not only was i supplying the
> current for my vehicle but i was providing ALL of the concordes'
> starting and charging needs as well, and this proved too much for my
> 105 amp alternator. I did finally get his car started but at the
> expense of my alternator. I have a feeling that if the concordes belt
> was on, at the time i was jumping it, #1 his battery wud not have been
> as depleted, and #2 his alternator wud have supplied at least some
> current so mine would not of had to supply ALL the current. For
> christmas, he got a brand new 1000 cca battery, and dad got a rebuilt
> alternator.
>

Why didn't you notice the alternator idiot light indicating no charging
during the time the 93 concorde was warming up that morning?

Second, that must take a lot of under-hood ice to slip a belt off a pulley.
That's a lot more than frost; where's all that water coming from?

Third, yeah, well, the starting current is supplied from both the good car's
battery and alternator. You found the hard way that it's safer to run the
good car up to temp (to charge and warm both batteries as much as possible,
because, IIRC, every 20F of temp drop cuts the available CCA in half), then
shut off the engine, and do the start on the dead car. If you can't start
the dead car in a minute's worth of cranks, you have other problems, and
should quit for a while. You can then start the good car, sit down where
it's warm, and think things out while you charge both batteries for 15
minutes or so at a fast idle.

Having lived in the cold Midwest many years ago, I would never expect -25F
starts without some kind of heating. On really bad nights, I used to go out
every 4 hours or so to run the car for 15 minutes. (I had a friend who took
his battery inside each evening. That worked pretty well, if you didn't mind
installing a battery in the dark at -25F and a wind-chill of maybe -75F!) Or
you can get a block heater and a battery warmer. And don't forget the can of
ether. True, my advice is from the pre-computer controlled engine era, but
batteries and oil are still the same.

Now I live where tonight's low was +52F, and advice is easy.

Ed

When i finally got the concorde started, my first thoughts where not to
sit there in the cold while the concorde warmed up. Before exiting the
concorde, after starting it, what makes u think the idiot light would
be on before i pulled the jumper cables.

to be honest....not so sure that it was in fact ice that knocked the
belt off . The reason that the belt got knocked off track is not
relevant to muldoon's problem.

I work alot of third shift, and the parking facility at my place of
employment does not offer power receptacles in their parking spaces,
even tho it employs mopre than 200 people. Vehicles here start more
often than not even down to 40 below. The ones that dont start have
alot more miles and age on them. It must have been some time ago that u
lived in the midwest cuz now people rely more on the same oil but much
better battery technology! Check out the new dry cell technology,
you'll never be left in the cold.

On 21 Dec 2004 13:01:03 -0800, (Tavish Muldoon)
wrote:

>Does give another car a boost ruin the boosters battery?
>
>It is -31C here (-24 F). The car did not start.
>
>And once a car can no longer turn over - what else can be done besides waiting?
>
>Would a block heater help?


Make sure you have a heavy duty battery less than five years old. One
rated above 800 cold cranking Amps would probably get you through
winter with no other considerations. Of course, use 5W30 oil or
lighter.

Boosting, if done correctly, will not hurt a battery or the car's
electronics. However, you must have a quality set of cables of heavy
guage to allow sufficient Amps to flow. The $10.00 cheapies available
only allow the receiving car to charged, not started.

A block heater would do the trick, but they are somewhat expensive to
run. When I lived in Winnipeg, I used a 2 Amp battery charger which
was plugged in whenever I parked. The charger kept the battery
charged and warm - there was no problem with Winter starting.

The advantage of a block heater is that a faster, smoother warmup will
result. This efficiency would offset somewhat the cost of using the
block heater.

Gary
Please remove XXX in email address if email reply is desired.

"gobroncos" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I work alot of third shift, and the parking facility at my place of
> employment does not offer power receptacles in their parking spaces,
> even tho it employs mopre than 200 people. Vehicles here start more
> often than not even down to 40 below. The ones that dont start have
> alot more miles and age on them. It must have been some time ago that u
> lived in the midwest cuz now people rely more on the same oil but much
> better battery technology! Check out the new dry cell technology,
> you'll never be left in the cold.


"Dry cells"? Are you talking about Gel electrolyte batteries?

Yes, as I said, my last experience in really cold weather was with a SBC 350
V8, a good battery, well cleaned terminals and cables in good condition. As
I did, most people had automatic transmissions. I wonder what happens to the
viscosity of ATF at -25F? Remember, that loads the cranking engine too,
regardless of how thin your engine oil is.

Ed