More on the bailout

"CharlesTheCurmudgeon" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> news:tvd3l.1211$Ve.100@edtnps82...
>>
>> OK... we are getting to the crux of it all....
>>
>>>"Millions of Americans jobless or making just $14 and hour"
>>
>>>Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
ers.com...
>>
>> Apparently, it doesn't matter what the job is worth....
>>
>> Bend over and take it like a man starts to sound like "death to the
>> infidel dogs"...
>>
>
> Just 14 dollars an hour? I now make more than that, but it took years.
> And I work hard for it. I know a lot of people that work for less than
> that, too.
>
> There's no doubt in my mind that Rock Hardson is a UAW shill.
>
> Sir Charles the Curmudgeon
>

Sir Charles simply can't believe or understand that a regular American with
no relationship to the union whatsover simply has an interest in the common
Joe. Selfish lives can corrupt the mind.

"Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
.com...
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>
> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>

That's up to the fickle and uneducated/behind the times consumer's
perceptions. Ford, right now, should be educating its consumers about its
current products and future plans versus the typical consumer perceptions of
that. Consumers won't go to the dealership until that changes more.
--
Dave

2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
high.

How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?

CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>
>"Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
s.com...
>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>
>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>
>
>Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. Until
>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality and
>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to quality
>or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's not
>gong to be any play.
>
The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
have horrible quality
(can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. It's also a myth that
Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
only par with ours.

What's been more important to Japanese success is the culture of
engineers versus our culture of business majors. This is especially
true because development of new products never makes sense from a
financial standpoint. Business majors understand this, but engineers
fortunately don't.

Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>Can we assume that apparently you have not seen the numerous reports that
>show many of the domestic are BEATING some of the imports in customer
>quality surveys? Have you seen the CAFE lists that show many domestics
>are as good or better than imports, of the same size, when it comes to fuel
>economy and some domestic, with V6 engines, are doing nearly as good as
>imports with only 4cy engines?
>
So why can't we honestly say all of them beat the foreign brands, as
was once could?

On Dec 21, 4:16*am, " > wrote:
> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>
> >"Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/12/19/AR200....
>
> >>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> >>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>
> >Sorry, you are WRONG. *US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
> >quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. *Until
> >the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality and
> >not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to quality
> >or not, *there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's not
> >gong to be any play.
>
> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
> have horrible quality
> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. *It's also a myth that
> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
> only par with ours.
>
> What's been more important to Japanese success is the culture of
> engineers versus our culture of business majors. *This is especially
> true because development of new products never makes sense from a
> financial standpoint. *Business majors understand this, but engineers
> fortunately don't.


"...when Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls
to being
only par with ours."

By your own admission Toyota and Honda's quality is superior to
Detroit's. Congratulations on finally coming around to that
conclusion, there is hope for you yet :-)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:26:25 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>Can we assume that apparently you have not seen the numerous reports that
>show many of the domestic are BEATING some of the imports in customer
>quality surveys?

I have seen the Consumer Reports Survey which shows that Toyota and
Honda are far more reliable than anything made by the "Big Three".
(Hard to call them the Big Three when Chrysler ranks fifth in sales.)

> Have you seen the CAFE lists that show many domestics
>are as good or better than imports, of the same size, when it comes to fuel
>economy and some domestic, with V6 engines, are doing nearly as good as
>imports with only 4cy engines?

That's nice, if questionably true. But GM and Ford would already be
in liquidation if it had to rely on those cars. The only thing that
has kept them floating over the last decade has been the 10-12 mpg
dinosaurs that are on the brink of extinction.

GM just put a hold on the factory which was supposed to build the
vaporware Volt. What does that say?





>
>
>"CharlesTheCurmudgeon" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
>> .com...
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>>
>>> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>> companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>> quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. Until
>> the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality and
>> not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
>> quality or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field,
>> there's not gong to be any play.
>>
>> And since you are obviously a UAW shill, you go plonk in the night.
>>
>> Sir Charles the Curmudgeon
>> Friends don't let friends vote Democrat.
>>
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:04:33 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>You mean like making the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>American buyers WANTED to buy so they outsold ALL of the import brands,

Toyota is outselling Ford in the US.
Honda is outselling Chrysler in the US.
Toyota is outselling GM worldwide and threatening them in the US.
Honda is closing in on Ford.
At least two of the Big Three need a government handout or they will
be dead within a month or so.

>who
>also started to make the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>American buyers WANTED to buy, over the past ten years of so that is also
>now doing in the imports?

If those SUVs were such success, why have the Big Three been steadily
losing market share for the past three decades?




>
>
>
>
>Detroit's "best" hope is a forced bankruptcy reorganization to change
>the outdated and lethal mindset that has done them in.
>

"Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
.com...
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>
> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>

To my amazement and dismay, U.S. is intentionally printing 9 trillion
dollars. The purpose of which is to create counter deflation they say.
This may result in hyper-inflation. Making the U.S. dollar worthless.
Under that situation, anything imported will be prohibitively expensive,
and, our exports cheap.

In that same scenario locally, anyone who has accumulated any form of
savings or retirement funds will see it dwindle further in locally much
higher costs of inflation. Which also includes any form of oil and its
derivatives.

This will also increase the U.S. budget deficit significantly other than the
said money printed. It will help create a more significant share of world
export trade, but the cost will be significantly higher. Wages won't be
able to keep up. Its hard to digest, I know. But, it must be stopped as
the problems created far outweigh any anticipated results.
--
Dave

Congrats on the bailout, now they can afford new deck chairs and
toilet seats for the Titanic. Hopefully your name will be on a toilet
seat "donated by" plaque.


On Dec 20, 11:25*am, "Rock Hardson" > wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/12/19/AR200...
>
> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> companies may be in for an ass kicking.

> wrote in message
...
>
>
> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>>
>>"Rock Hardson" > wrote in message
rs.com...
>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>>
>>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>
>>
>>Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. Until
>>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality and
>>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
>>quality
>>or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's
>>not
>>gong to be any play.
>>
> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
> have horrible quality
> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. It's also a myth that
> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
> only par with ours.

Where did you get the idea that Subaru's are some model of reliability? In
the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, they rank well below the
industry average. (Just ahead of Chrysler and Dodge!) Of the Japanese
makes, only Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are above the industry average.
US makes scoring exceptionally well on the same survey are Mercury,
Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. (Mercury and Cadillac are both scoring higher
than Toyota, Acura, and Honda!!!)

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008115

Derek