2005 Escape Oil Pan Bolt Too Tightly Torqued

On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:09:57 -0500, "HLS" > wrote:

>
>"m" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Recently tried to do my own oil change on my Escape. I tried to unbolt
>> the plug drain (15 mm bolt) and found that I couldn't budge the bolt.
>> I will bring it back to the mechanic who did the last oil change and
>> ask why this bolt needs to be torqued so high. This is an aluminum pan
>> and I was afraid that I would crack the aluminum if I applied too much
>> torque.
>> Anyone have experience with this? Someone mentioned to me that the
>> dissimlar materials causes the bolt to freeze up like what I have
>> experienced.

Unlikely given the drain plug shouldn't have been in their that long
and there was inevitably oil dripping on the threads when the plugs
was reinstalled.

>Let me suggest that if you try to take it off, it will either come off or it
>wont.
>A mechanic can do no better, in general. When he tries to take it off, it
>will either come off cleanly, or it can strip threads, or the bolt can
>break, and
>there is little he can do to stop it.

Nonsense!

>And, if if screws up, the mechanic is not likely to absorb the loss. Why
>should he?
>
>Dissimilar metals dont necessarily cause a bolt to freeze up UNLESS there is
>a corrosive electrolyte involved OR unless the bolt and pan were put
>together
>when the temperature differences were large.
>
>So, you have to make a choice...do it yourself and probably do fine, do it
>yourself
>and risk a problem, or take it to a mechanic who has similar statistics.

If the stubborn drain plug was being removed in my shop it would be
with a 15mm 6 point socket in good condition. It would be a lot
harder to remove if someone has attempted removal with:

A: Crescent wrench
B: Visegrips
C: 12 point socket or box wrench
D: Open end
E: Worn or cheap 6 point socket

There IS a potential difference in the outcome depending on who does
it with what.

We have removed many a bolt with no problems that an owner said could
not be turned.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

"HLS" wrote:

...I know this probably doesnt apply to you, BUT I worked
with a young small engine mechanic recently, and he still
has problems with "righty, tighty...lefty, loosey" I was
surprised, but I realize that some people will always have
problems with this.
__________________________________________________ __________

I am old and experienced at DIY auto maintenance,
but when reaching for an upside-down bolt head
I stop and take extra time to be absolutely certain
which directions are "righty, tighty ... lefty, loosey"

Rodan. <----- Learned the hard way.

"Donald Lewis" > wrote in message
>
>>Let me suggest that if you try to take it off, it will either come off or
>>it
>>wont.
>>A mechanic can do no better, in general. When he tries to take it off, it
>>will either come off cleanly, or it can strip threads, or the bolt can
>>break, and
>>there is little he can do to stop it.
>
> Nonsense!

No, Don, it isnt nonsense...When you start to remove a plug, it will either
release
or it wont. No bull**** about using pliars or that sort of crap. We are
talking about
the threads being torn out of the aluminum pan, or in a worst case that the
bolt breaks
(VERY unlikely).

You can heat the area, use penetrant, etc but nobody does this regularly.
They just
put on a 6 point socket and go easy.

I think it is unlikely that it will strip the threads out, but certainly not
impossible.

On 3/28/09 6:31 PM, in article ,
"HLS" > wrote:

>
> "Donald Lewis" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Let me suggest that if you try to take it off, it will either come off or
>>> it
>>> wont.
>>> A mechanic can do no better, in general. When he tries to take it off, it
>>> will either come off cleanly, or it can strip threads, or the bolt can
>>> break, and
>>> there is little he can do to stop it.
>>
>> Nonsense!
>
> No, Don, it isnt nonsense...When you start to remove a plug, it will either
> release
> or it wont. No bull**** about using pliars or that sort of crap. We are
> talking about
> the threads being torn out of the aluminum pan, or in a worst case that the
> bolt breaks
> (VERY unlikely).
>
> You can heat the area, use penetrant, etc but nobody does this regularly.
> They just
> put on a 6 point socket and go easy.
>
> I think it is unlikely that it will strip the threads out, but certainly not
> impossible.
>
>
>
Uh ... Aren't we talking about an oil drain plug here? Its not an exhaust
header with 10 years of rust. I've heard of them being stripped while over
tightening, but never by removing (unless of course turning the wrong way
with the 4 foot gas pipe on the breaker bar...).

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:31:33 -0500, "HLS" > wrote:

>
>"Donald Lewis" > wrote in message
>>
>>>Let me suggest that if you try to take it off, it will either come off or
>>>it
>>>wont.
>>>A mechanic can do no better, in general. When he tries to take it off, it
>>>will either come off cleanly, or it can strip threads, or the bolt can
>>>break, and
>>>there is little he can do to stop it.
>>
>> Nonsense!
>
>No, Don, it isnt nonsense...When you start to remove a plug, it will either
>release
>or it wont.

Or the head will be rounded off due to the use of the wrong tool. It
happens all too often. Frequently by the DIYer but occasionally by
someone less than competent at a shop.

YOU may chose not to talk about this possibility but it DOES happen
whether you choose to talk about it or not.

> No bull**** about using pliars or that sort of crap. We are
>talking about
>the threads being torn out of the aluminum pan,

99% of the time this happens during an over-tightenting process NOT
upon removal. A corrosion bond is extremely unlikely on an oil pan
drain plug.

Don

> or in a worst case that the
>bolt breaks
>(VERY unlikely).
>
>You can heat the area, use penetrant, etc but nobody does this regularly.
>They just
>put on a 6 point socket and go easy.
>
>I think it is unlikely that it will strip the threads out, but certainly not
>impossible.
>
>

"Donald Lewis" > wrote in message

> Or the head will be rounded off due to the use of the wrong tool. It
> happens all too often. Frequently by the DIYer but occasionally by
> someone less than competent at a shop.
>
> YOU may chose not to talk about this possibility but it DOES happen
> whether you choose to talk about it or not.
****************
It happens, agreed, but this was not the nature of this thread. He was
talking
only about a drain plug he believed to have been overtightened and he was
worried
about the aluminum threads in the oilpan being stripped if he put too much
torque on
it to remove it. It CAN happen, but probably wont.

**********************

>> No bull**** about using pliars or that sort of crap. We are
>>talking about
>>the threads being torn out of the aluminum pan,
>
> 99% of the time this happens during an over-tightenting process NOT
> upon removal. A corrosion bond is extremely unlikely on an oil pan
> drain plug.
*************************
That is what I have said. It is unlikely to happen because of corrosion.
If it were overtightened in the first place,then the threads may already be
damaged, and there is essentially no way you can remove the plug which
is in damaged threads and not make it somewhat worse, no matter what
sort of mechanic you are.

Since this is aluminum versus steel threads, temperature can play a part,
but we didnt even get into that. It is unlikely, especially when you are
dealing with a heatsunk area like an oil pan...much less unlikely if you
are dealing with spark plugs in an aluminum head.

> We have removed many a bolt with no problems that an owner said could
> not be turned.

Yeah, and I'll bet that if your shop or one of similar standards put
'em in, they come out with correct commonplace tools and a reasonable
amount of force. Unfortunately some mechanics (professional and DIY)
are really proud that their impact wrench goes all the way to 11.
They say that if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say
anything at all. Removing bolts from cars has contributed a lot to
my quiet and stoic reputation.

It's kinda hard to advise the original poster without a picture of the
bolt head. If somebody worked 'em over hard enough with the Samsonite
Gorilla approach, vise-grips might be the appropriate technology for
the last loosening of the bolt pending its replacement. I mean,
c'mon, you've seen hex heads that have been turned into a circular
mounting post, right? (Don't forget "didn't have a metric socket,
grabbed the next size bigger SAE socket" on the litany of causes!)
Then again, maybe it's in pretty good shape and if the OP goes to the
"real" auto parts store or Sears for a quality socket and a foot or so
of ratchet handle or breaker bar, and turns it lefty-loosey, it'll
cooperate immediately.

Cheers,
--Joe

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:12:04 +0000, Rodan wrote:

>
> I am old and experienced at DIY auto maintenance,
> but when reaching for an upside-down bolt head
> I stop and take extra time to be absolutely certain
> which directions are "righty, tighty ... lefty, loosey"

Yup!!! Upside down and bent over backwards can be disconcerting!
Usually I let the ratchet figure it out for me!