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Bad Harmonic Balancer
I reported in earlier posts that my belts on my '98 C5 were squeaking. I
took it to a friend's shop and he found that the rubber in the harmonic balancer is all worn and wobbling. He said the belts are old and dry too. The job is going to cost $679 total, new belts and all. He said it's a 4 hour job to get the harmonic balancer changed. Does that sound about right? What gets me is that I just had the car at the dealer and they replaced two tensioners. They said it needed new belts to stop the squeaking. Why didn't they spot the bad harmonic balancer? Can I get away with not replacing it? What happens when one fails? -- Warmest regards, Steve |
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#2
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
Steve:
> I reported in earlier posts that my belts on my '98 C5 were squeaking. I > took it to a friend's shop and he found that the rubber in the harmonic > balancer is all worn and wobbling. He said the belts are old and dry too. > The job is going to cost $679 total, new belts and all. He said it's a 4 > hour job to get the harmonic balancer changed. Does that sound about right? Seems about right. It's a rats nest of pipes, hoses, belts, and god knows what in front of the LS1, and there's little to no room to get at anything. All the accessories probably have to come off of the front of the motor to access the harmonic balancer, and maybe even the radiator and cooling hoses, can't really tell from the pictures I've found. Regardless, there's a lot to be moved around just to get a hand down to the area of interest. > > What gets me is that I just had the car at the dealer and they replaced two > tensioners. They said it needed new belts to stop the squeaking. Why didn't > they spot the bad harmonic balancer? Can I get away with not replacing it? > What happens when one fails? It's kind of hard to see from the top, maybe easier from the bottom. It's not something that usually fails. Before I'd let them work on it I'd check to see if there's any TSB's out on it. To be quite honest, I smell a rat. I've owned quite a few cars over the years (and most were GM, but not all...) and I've NEVER had a harmonic balancer go bad. Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. It seems to be a common failure on newer Mercedes (went surfing the NG's via Google). Didn't see anything on LS1 HB's, so I doubt it a big failure item. Get a second or third opinion. What happens if it fails completely? As it wobbles it'll chew up the front of the motor including timing chain cover & seal, as well as maybe the lower pulley and serpentine belt. It could conceivably cause timing chain problems and maybe even early crankshaft failure. Good luck! TomC '90 ZR1 #792 > |
#3
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
On 9-Jan-2006, Crabs > wrote: > > What gets me is that I just had the car at the dealer and they replaced > > two > > tensioners. They said it needed new belts to stop the squeaking. Why > > didn't > > they spot the bad harmonic balancer? Can I get away with not replacing > > it? > > What happens when one fails? > It's kind of hard to see from the top, maybe easier from the bottom. > It's not something that usually fails. Before I'd let them work on it > I'd check to see if there's any TSB's out on it. > To be quite honest, I smell a rat. I've owned quite a few cars over the > years (and most were GM, but not all...) and I've NEVER had a harmonic > balancer go bad. He put it up on the lift and showed me. The rubber part in the center of the pully is all cracked and about an inch around the circumference there is no rubber at all that I can see. When the engine is running it is slightly wobbling. And it's in a real tight spot. He showed me on a Taurus how easy it is to get to it. But on the Vette it's inches from the front of what looks like the frame. BTW, do you know the URL for Corvette TSB's? -- Warmest regards, Steve |
#4
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
Steve:
> BTW, do you know the URL for Corvette TSB's? > http://www.alldata.com/TSB/10/981006iS.html Here's a start. Good luck! TomC '90 ZR1 #792 |
#5
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
-- Ed McAllister, CCRM Prime Property Management "Crabs" > wrote in message ... > Steve: >> BTW, do you know the URL for Corvette TSB's? >> > http://www.alldata.com/TSB/10/981006iS.html > > Here's a start. > Good luck! > > TomC > '90 ZR1 #792 Jeez, looked up my '04 LS6. Must be 30 or 40 items. |
#6
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
"Crabs" > wrote in message ... > Steve: >> I reported in earlier posts that my belts on my '98 C5 were >> squeaking. I >> took it to a friend's shop and he found that the rubber in the >> harmonic >> balancer is all worn and wobbling. I doubt this is the case, it may be loose but no way the rubber is worn in the balancer. Just to let you know the LS1 has an oil filled crankshaft and if the bolt comes loose it will allow a black residue to form. Would have said something earlier but I block spamm. >> He said the belts are old and dry too. The belts are old and dry after the first year, it's called flex and heat checking. >> The job is going to cost $679 total, new belts and all. He said >> it's a 4 >> hour job to get the harmonic balancer changed. Does that sound >> about right? There is a new bolt that is used to reseal the crankshaft and lock the balancer back on the crank and as far as I know they don't cost hundred of dollars. More like an $80 fix. > Seems about right. It's a rats nest of pipes, hoses, belts, and god > knows what in front of the LS1, and there's little to no room to get > at anything. All the accessories probably have to come off of the > front of the motor to access the harmonic balancer, and maybe even > the radiator and cooling hoses, can't really tell from the pictures > I've found. Regardless, there's a lot to be moved around just to get > a hand down to the area of interest. > >> >> What gets me is that I just had the car at the dealer and they >> replaced two >> tensioners. They said it needed new belts to stop the squeaking. >> Why didn't >> they spot the bad harmonic balancer? Can I get away with not >> replacing it? Let me guess, because there isn't one? >> What happens when one fails? The outer ring slips and the engine feels like the block is rotating around the crank. > It's kind of hard to see from the top, maybe easier from the bottom. > It's not something that usually fails. Before I'd let them work on > it I'd check to see if there's any TSB's out on it. > To be quite honest, I smell a rat. I've owned quite a few cars over > the years (and most were GM, but not all...) and I've NEVER had a > harmonic balancer go bad. Same here. > Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. It seems to be a common > failure on newer Mercedes (went surfing the NG's via Google). Didn't > see anything on LS1 HB's, so I doubt it a big failure item. > Get a second or third opinion. > What happens if it fails completely? As it wobbles it'll chew up the > front of the motor including timing chain cover & seal, as well as > maybe the lower pulley and serpentine belt. It could conceivably > cause timing chain problems and maybe even early crankshaft failure. Don't think so but since I've never seen one fail on a car it's a guess at best. My best guess is that you would certainly feel it long before it did that much damage unless it happened on the track at wide open throttle. > > Good luck! > TomC > '90 ZR1 #792 >> Just to help your belief/disbelief in what I said I worked in the tool and machine design department for a tier 1 supplier for harmonic balancers from 1965 to 1968. We tested them to 20,000 RPM unbalanced before we got any failures. That was most always ring separation and not rubber deterioration and the rubber got very hot running like that when unbalanced. -- Dad 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd |
#7
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
Balancer problems have happened to C5s from time to time. And the C6
as well. It needs to be replaced ASAP. And the upgraded parts should be used. Some like to pin the new balancer since it's still pressed together and can still separate. If you need more help, try: www.corvettemechanic.com or www.c5forum.com |
#8
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
On 10-Jan-2006, "Dad" > wrote: > > Steve: > >> I reported in earlier posts that my belts on my '98 C5 were > >> squeaking. I > >> took it to a friend's shop and he found that the rubber in the > >> harmonic > >> balancer is all worn and wobbling. > > I doubt this is the case, it may be loose but no way the rubber is > worn in the balancer. Just to let you know the LS1 has an oil filled > crankshaft and if the bolt comes loose it will allow a black residue > to form. Would have said something earlier but I block spamm. I posted a up couple of close up pictures at http://stephenhorrillo.com/C5_harmonic_balancer.htm. Let me know what you think. Notice the gap, the cracking rubber and the way it's pushed in on one side and hanging out on the other. If you need pictures with a higher resolution or a movie of it spinning let me know. Should I replace it? If I just replace the belts should the squeaking stop? When I spray belt dressing on the main belt the sqeaking stops for a little while but there's still a sort of rattleling sound. -- Many thanks Dad and everyone, Steve |
#9
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
To quote a regular poster....
As Dad had been suffering much itching and discomfort, moved his belly out of the way, fished around and finally found "Lil Dad", looked down and uttered.... "Ugggh...I don't like the look of that!" LOLOL Steve Horrillo wrote: > >http://stephenhorrillo.com/C5_harmonic_balancer.htm. > > -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler remove -SPAM- from email address -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson |
#10
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Bad Harmonic Balancer
Dad-
I know what you're saying..but.. I had an annoying squeeky belt on my 2000 C5. Ultimately, it was quited down by replacing the crankshaft pulley. Hard to believe.. but it was "wobbly". Car had about 50K miles on it at the time. Steve- The pulley is reaplaced from the underneath. The steering rack needs to come out to get at it. Procharger (ATI) has a kit to pin the pulley to the crank. You basically drill a hole in the pin of the crank which goes into the pulley and put a pin in it. In addition to being bolted on with the big bolt which by the way is not supposed to be reused. I'm telling you this because if you ever decide to supercharge your car(highly recommended), your mechanic would have to repeat what he is doing here. Four hours sounds right for the job. -Stan '99 Blown C5 Vert '00 Coupe "Steve Horrillo" > wrote in message t... > > On 10-Jan-2006, "Dad" > wrote: > >> > Steve: >> >> I reported in earlier posts that my belts on my '98 C5 were >> >> squeaking. I >> >> took it to a friend's shop and he found that the rubber in the >> >> harmonic >> >> balancer is all worn and wobbling. >> >> I doubt this is the case, it may be loose but no way the rubber is >> worn in the balancer. Just to let you know the LS1 has an oil filled >> crankshaft and if the bolt comes loose it will allow a black residue >> to form. Would have said something earlier but I block spamm. > > I posted a up couple of close up pictures at > http://stephenhorrillo.com/C5_harmonic_balancer.htm. Let me know what you > think. Notice the gap, the cracking rubber and the way it's pushed in on > one > side and hanging out on the other. If you need pictures with a higher > resolution or a movie of it spinning let me know. > > Should I replace it? If I just replace the belts should the squeaking > stop? > When I spray belt dressing on the main belt the sqeaking stops for a > little > while but there's still a sort of rattleling sound. > > -- > Many thanks Dad and everyone, > > Steve |
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