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#1
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FFB
Ok, this is "the right" way to set FFB.
Centering Spring should be at 100. Overall, Spring and Damper should be at the same number. My settings are 139/139/139/100, "Allow game..." unchecked, in-game 40.0/100. I am not very strong person, so I presume that normal male people should have it at 140%. I still have some "play" in FFB, but I presume that adjusting "cockpitLookDeadZone" in app.ini file of iRacing will correct this. Mario |
#2
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FFB
On 20/08/2011 13:04, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> Ok, this is "the right" way to set FFB. The free Atlas telemetry tool can show when FFB forces have reached their max. Also a guy has written a tool which shows FFB forces live if you run in windowed mode or have an additional screen or smartphone/tablet you can run it on. Check the forums for iRacing FFB clipping monitor This allows each car to be set with individual FFB forces to avoid clipping (where you reduce fidelity by hitting max force too regularly so that forces cannot be distinguished) I think this stuff is rather personal though it depends upon how much you rely on FFB to distinguish how the car is behaving. Your settings will be hitting max forces much of the time but if it works for you... |
#3
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FFB
Tony R:
>Mario Petrinovic: >> Ok, this is "the right" way to set FFB. > > The free Atlas telemetry tool can show when FFB forces have reached their > max. Also a guy has written a tool which shows FFB forces live if you run > in windowed mode or have an additional screen or smartphone/tablet you can > run it on. > > Check the forums for iRacing FFB clipping monitor > > This allows each car to be set with individual FFB forces to avoid > clipping (where you reduce fidelity by hitting max force too regularly so > that forces cannot be distinguished) > > I think this stuff is rather personal though it depends upon how much you > rely on FFB to distinguish how the car is behaving. Your settings will be > hitting max forces much of the time but if it works for you... First, I don't have access to forum. Second, clipping doesn't change a thing. You don't need a tool to feel clipping, clipping occures at the max force, if you don't feel the maximum force, what in the whole world do you feel. Third, no, it simply cannot be personal (but soon I'll be on the fly, and then you will see, because I am at the very end of my research). If you can adjust this to your personal liking, then you are missing something. All forces, Damper, Spring and Centering Spring have to be ballanced, only this way you can get the right feel of FFB, and ONLY "the right" feel can help you "the right" way. Too bad everybody is performing this alchemy, insted of a real thing. But, it is long time since I became tired of explaining to people, if they believe so much in their alchemy, so let them enjoy it. I am pretty sure that I'll be ready for the next rookie season, then you will see. Already, with only few laps done with "the right" setting, I am extremly pleased, driving fixed Corvette (and I do have enormnous experience in trying all different settings). I just need to adjust this little "play" that I have, I hope this will be done this week. But the ballance of forces is done rightly (it could be, though, that you can adjust this play with Centering Spring, but I was at work, so didn't try it yet). Mario |
#4
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FFB
On Aug 21, 6:44*am, "Mario Petrinovic" >
wrote: > * * * * First, I don't have access to forum. Right. The cut you off because of this exact nonsense. > * * * * Second, clipping doesn't change a thing. You don't need a tool to > feel clipping, clipping occures at the max force, if you don't feel the > maximum force, what in the whole world do you feel. You seem to think clipping is some sort of spike in the force. It's not. Clipping is when the wheel motors are being driven to their max force for any extended period of time. With these settings you recommend, the wheel will be clipping continually. You might as well have a spring loaded wheel, because you certainly won't be feeling any FFB detail. At the slightest cornering loads you will feel a constant force from the wheel equal to the max force output of the wheel. I'll be interested to hear from anyone else who tries what Mario recommends. I messed around with it for a bit just to see what would happen. It went about as well as I expected. Mario, has anyone else ever confirmed your results? Has even one other person ever responded positively to your posts on FFB? The FOV stuff is hilarious, BTW Pat |
#5
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FFB
Pat Dotson:
Mario Petrinovic: > First, I don't have access to forum. Right. The cut you off because of this exact nonsense. ----------------------------------------------------- Well, I wrote about the same thing when N2003 came out, in Papyrus forum. Papyrus responded in a way that they disabled damping. This was the last update of Papyrus, Papyrus was no more. I wrote in iRacing forum as well, iRacing responded by disabling damper. That lasted for one day. ----------------------------------------------------- > Second, clipping doesn't change a thing. You don't need a tool to > feel clipping, clipping occures at the max force, if you don't feel the > maximum force, what in the whole world do you feel. You seem to think clipping is some sort of spike in the force. It's not. Clipping is when the wheel motors are being driven to their max force for any extended period of time. With these settings you recommend, the wheel will be clipping continually. You might as well have a spring loaded wheel, because you certainly won't be feeling any FFB detail. At the slightest cornering loads you will feel a constant force from the wheel equal to the max force output of the wheel. I'll be interested to hear from anyone else who tries what Mario recommends. I messed around with it for a bit just to see what would happen. It went about as well as I expected. Mario, has anyone else ever confirmed your results? Has even one other person ever responded positively to your posts on FFB? -------------------------------------------------------- Yes, some people use FFB the way I am using. BTW, I saw this FFB clipping tool. I will never use that tool (I never use unproved programs on my computer), but it shows exactly what I feel using FFB your way. Too eratic FFB, which cannot be used past 20% (or 8, per new graduation), and probably nobody uses it past 8%, or 3 per new graduation. This behaves completly uncontrolable, just like a car suspension without shock absorber. FFB is designed to be used with damper and spring. Damper stops FFB to go into clipping, and controls the behaviour of FFB. I am using in-game 40.0/100. I keep getting responses like yours, but I never understood them. I will not be able to finish my research this month, but next month I'll be racing. For now, it could be that Centering Spring should be the same as other forces, and "cockpitLookDeadZone" could be as high as 0.120000, I'll see. ------------------------------------------------------- The FOV stuff is hilarious, BTW ---------------------------------------------------- Hm, you didn't adjust your perspective? Well, this explains a lot. Why you didn't adjust it? Mario |
#6
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FFB
> Pat Dotson:
> Mario Petrinovic: >> Second, clipping doesn't change a thing. You don't need a tool to >> feel clipping, clipping occures at the max force, if you don't feel the >> maximum force, what in the whole world do you feel. > > You seem to think clipping is some sort of spike in the force. It's > not. Clipping is when the wheel motors are being driven to their max > force for any extended period of time. > > With these settings you recommend, the wheel will be clipping > continually. You might as well have a spring loaded wheel, because > you certainly won't be feeling any FFB detail. At the slightest > cornering loads you will feel a constant force from the wheel equal to > the max force output of the wheel. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, I gave a little thought about that clipping. Yes, you are absolutely right, I do think that "clipping is some sort of spike in the force", and there is a reason why I think it, and there is a reason why you think I have constant clipping. Watch he With my settings clipping occures ONLY during bumps on road, no sign of any clipping during normal conditions. This is why I see clipping in iRacing as some sort of spike, because I feel it only in those spiky situations. OTOH, you, with your damperless forces, which behave so erratically, those forces uncontrollably (uncontrolled by damper) jump all over the place, so, if you rise the slider just a bit too high, it is already in the red zone. OTOH, probably you don't feel the bump clipping, simply because your FFB setting is too low for that, and because of spiky nature of bump clipping, when those forces became uncontrolled, they are already gone, a spike is gone. So, two of us have completly different view of clipping. I feel it only on bumps. You feel it everywhere, but probably not on bumps. Lol, some kind of FFB settings you have. Mario |
#7
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FFB
>On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Pat Dotson > wrote:
>I'll be interested to hear from anyone else who tries what Mario >recommends. I messed around with it for a bit just to see what would >happen. It went about as well as I expected. > >Mario, has anyone else ever confirmed your results? Has even one >other person ever responded positively to your posts on FFB? > >The FOV stuff is hilarious, BTW > >Pat I tried, it was a joke. If he feels that those settings in any way approach real life (and I DO drive a race car) he needs (different) medication.. GR |
#8
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FFB
GaryR:
> >Pat Dotson: >>I'll be interested to hear from anyone else who tries what Mario >>recommends. I messed around with it for a bit just to see what would >>happen. It went about as well as I expected. >> >>Mario, has anyone else ever confirmed your results? Has even one >>other person ever responded positively to your posts on FFB? >> >>The FOV stuff is hilarious, BTW > > I tried, it was a joke. If he feels that those settings in any way > approach real life (and I DO drive a race car) he needs (different) > medication.. Where you can have problems: You got to set hight of screen ("DrivingVanishY"), latency ("cockpitLookDeadZone") and FOV. FFB signal is something like hi-fi, you got to have clean, undisturbed signal. You got to get rid of compression-like things, other noise and delays. For example, iRacing's AA and AF works like a compression (I presume). Use video card AA and AF. Use no-limit fps. And things like that. Use USB port that doesn't share resources with other things. I disable all I/O ports that I don't need. And things like that. Dirtiness, compression and delays affect FFB. Regarding how much it approaches real life. The way I am using FFB is the standard made by inventors and productors of FFB and FFB devices. They should know what they are doing, and it is advisable, if you are using FFB devices, to use them per their standard. If you don't use them like that, you can expect to have below average results. I don't get constant clipping, if I would drive my wheel with the strongest force it can produce, I wouldn't be able to drive a car, and I am getting 1:57 at Suzuka, with fixed Corvette setup. Even more, I am just testing FFB, and when you are testing FFB your last lap should be driven like your first lap, otherwise you lose reference points, and you musn't improve your driving line, or anything, the improvement in time must be solely because of the improvement of FFB. Of course, I cannot resist to improve on my driving line a bit, but this definitely isn't some major effort, and I do have some room to improve times, when I finaly set the FFB correctly. Mario |
#9
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FFB
I'll try anything once, but please clarify relating the what is in the Logitech Profiler Options/Global Device Settings for my G25 setup. Force Feedback Device Settings Overall Effects Strength - 139%? Spring Effect Sttrength - 139%? Damper Effect Strength - 139%? Enable Centering Spring in Force Feeback Games - Checked Centering Spring Strength - 100%? Steering Wheel Settings Report Combined Pedals - Unchecked Degrees of Rotation - 383 deg. (I have a full size wheel out of my race car) Game Settings Allow Game to Adjust Settings - unchecked Am I reading your settings correctly? Thanks GR >On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:04:46 +0200, "Mario Petrinovic" > wrote: > Ok, this is "the right" way to set FFB. > > Centering Spring should be at 100. > Overall, Spring and Damper should be at the same number. > > My settings are 139/139/139/100, "Allow game..." unchecked, in-game >40.0/100. I am not very strong person, so I presume that normal male people >should have it at 140%. > I still have some "play" in FFB, but I presume that adjusting >"cockpitLookDeadZone" in app.ini file of iRacing will correct this. > > Mario |
#10
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FFB
GaryR:
> I'll try anything once, but please clarify relating the what is in the > Logitech Profiler Options/Global Device Settings for my G25 setup. > > Force Feedback Device Settings > Overall Effects Strength - 139%? > > Spring Effect Sttrength - 139%? > > Damper Effect Strength - 139%? > > Enable Centering Spring in Force Feeback Games - Checked > Centering Spring Strength - 100%? > > Steering Wheel Settings > Report Combined Pedals - Unchecked > > Degrees of Rotation - 383 deg. (I have a full size wheel out of my > race car) > > Game Settings > Allow Game to Adjust Settings - unchecked > > Am I reading your settings correctly? No, Centering Spring in FF games should be unchecked (IT WORKS unchecked also, but differently than when checked, your FFB guru didn't tell you that, I bet). Second thing, first you have to calibrate wheel properly. When you center your wheel make sure that in center position it is at the number which is at exactly half between the lowest and the highest. Then, when you are asked to turn it left, turn it left so that the number matches the number you have in your driver (383), no matter if your wheel is actually left or not. Of course, this isn't so good with analog wheel, so I would make sure, when I am buying a wheel, that it is digital. Also, somehwere I've read advice to calibrate pedals every time you start to race. This is GOOD advice. While it is alright to calibrate (digital) wheel only once, with (analog) pedals it is different situation, so for every cold start of computer I calibrate my pedals. This isn't hard to do, anyway. But I have another advice. BEFORE you calibrate pedals, first "work" pedals a little. I press each pedal 10 times BEFORE calibration, and 5 times during calibration. Don't press for more than 5 times during calibration, because from time to time it happens that pedal potentiometer responds with a peak, so this can screw your calibration process, which is especially bad for braking pedal. Another thing is that the perspective has to be natural. You got to find your natural FOV, and THE MOST important is to set the hight of screen EXACTLY right. This means that you adjust it by the mean of "DrivingVanishY" variable in app.ini file, and this has to be precise to 4 decimal numbers (the adjustment in the game isn't precise enough). Next thing, the Centering Spring Strength isn't 100%. I just started to research this. For now, it looks like something like 20% responds well for me. The change of Centering Spring Strength reacts just like it should (this means that other numbers are correctly set), and it really affects only the Centering Spring, while the ballance of other forces remain untouched. When I finish testing Centering Spring, I'll see how this blends with "cockpitLookDeadZone" variable in app.ini file. For now I have it at the default (which is 0.050000). And the last thing, whatever you are testing, always test thoroughly. Giving it one try will not do the job. Maybe you are used to some other things, so this new thing will be confusing. But, of course, nobody has patience, and it is completly alright with me whichever way suits you, you don't have to try it at all, if you ask me. I always test thorougly, and this is why this is taking so long. I spend up to 3 hours to test 15 different positions. Do at least 3 (*proper*) laps with every position. Take care that first you do at least something like 7-8 laps, just to adjust to car and track. Mario >>Mario Petrinovic: >> Ok, this is "the right" way to set FFB. >> >> Centering Spring should be at 100. >> Overall, Spring and Damper should be at the same number. >> >> My settings are 139/139/139/100, "Allow game..." unchecked, >> in-game >>40.0/100. I am not very strong person, so I presume that normal male >>people should have it at 140%. >> I still have some "play" in FFB, but I presume that adjusting >>"cockpitLookDeadZone" in app.ini file of iRacing will correct this. |
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