Guy gets caught while trying to stop drivers from talking oncellphones while driving

On 2014-11-22 22:24:02 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
> news:2014112213224244856-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that would be
>>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>
>>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>>
>>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>>
>>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending himself.
>>
>> Actually true in California.
>
> Nope.

Where exactly did you get your information regarding California Law?

>> There have been several cases where a partner in crime has been killed
>> as a result of action by a victim and the survivor has been charged and
>> convicted of murder.
>
> But not with FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

Many times yes, murder in the first degree, and in California,
sometimes "Special Circumstances Murder".

>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>> and most other forms of murder.
>
> There is also a key difference between FIRST DEGREE and SECOND DEGREE murder.

....and apparently you aren't aware of those differences as they apply
to California Law.

>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's
>> intentional or accidental.
>
> But not FIRST DEGREE murder when there is no intent to murder.

Not necessarily, when the intent of the felony/attempted felony is
murder, and a crime partner is killed by the potential victim, the
surviving crime partner can be charged and convicted of first degree
murder, and even Special circumstances murder in California. All under
the felony murder rule.

>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>> felony murder
>
> Felony murder isnt the same thing as FIRST DEGREE murder.

It can be depending on the felony.

>> if his partner accidentally shoots someone while attempting to rob a
>> bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving life terms in
>> California because of the felony murder rule. I actual knowledge of two
>> home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in crime were
>> killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded) is serving
>> a life term.
>
> But not for FIRST DEGREE murder.

In one of those cases yes, and it was a special circumstances case
where the individual convicted was sentenced to life without the
possibility of parole.

> In the other there were two
>> partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
>> felony murder rule.
>
> Again, he wasn’t convicted of FIRST DEGREE murder.

You seem to be amazingly ill informed about California Law, even for
somebody posting from wherever it is in the Pacific you are posting
from.

>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>
>>> Fraid not.
>>
>> It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law Enforcement
>> officer in this State.
>
> No, not with FIRST DEGREE murder. You are talking
> about FELONY murder, a different crime entirely.

Not necessarily.

>>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>>>
>>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States

Jamming
>>>
>>>> cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>>> degree murder.
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>
>> That depends on the will of the local D.A..
>
> Nope, the court would toss it in the bin if he was stupid enough to try that.

Not necessarily.

> It isnt even felony murder either.

Not necessarily

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the California Penal Code
Sections 187-199. Particularly section 189 where you will find this:

"All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive
device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of
ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison,
lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate,
and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration
of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery,
burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. All other
kinds of murders are of the second degree."

Note these included words: "..., or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape,
carjacking, robbery,
burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree."

So get back to us once you actually know what you are talking about.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-11-22 23:28:38 +0000, technomaNge > said:

> On 11/22/2014 03:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>
>> Actually true in California. There have been several cases where a
>> partner in crime has been killed as a result of action by a victim and
>> the survivor has been charged and convicted of murder.
>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>> and most other forms of murder.
>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional
>> or accidental.
>>
>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>> felony murder if his partner accidentally shoots someone while
>> attempting to rob a bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving
>> life terms in California because of the felony murder rule. I actual
>> knowledge of two home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in
>> crime were killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded)
>> is serving a life term. In the other there were two partners in crime,
>> one killed, the other convicted of murder under the felony murder rule.
>>
>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>
>>> Fraid not.
>>
>
> As I recall, that is the law used to charge Angela Davis with murder
> during a terrorist attack in which she participated, in California,
> in the 60's.

Not quite. Davis was charged with Conspiracy to commit murder, &
kidnapping when the guns used in the Marin County Court House,
kidnapping & murder case were traced back to her.
She was eventually brought to trial and was acquitted by an all white
jury which basically held that purchase of the weapons was insufficient
evidence to obtain a conviction, or to show that she was responsible
for the plot.

That whole saga started with the "Soledad Brothers" case.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soledad_Brothers>

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article >, Frank Slootweg
> wrote:

> Lewis > wrote:
> [...]
> > A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
> > regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>
> Then - as a shopper - I'd better not have a heart-attack when someone
> steals a packet of crisps!

It wouldn't matter to you anyway.

A. You're dead from the heart attack.

B. You weren't the one stealing the packet of crisps, so
wouldn't be charged with "first degree murder".

What you probably meant to say was that you wouldn't want *someone
else* having a heart attack when *you* are stealing a packet of crisps
.... that way you would (supposedly) be charged with "first degree
murder". :-)

"technomaNge" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/22/2014 03:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>
>> Actually true in California. There have been several cases where a
>> partner in crime has been killed as a result of action by a victim and
>> the survivor has been charged and convicted of murder.
>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>> and most other forms of murder.
>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional
>> or accidental.
>>
>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>> felony murder if his partner accidentally shoots someone while
>> attempting to rob a bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving
>> life terms in California because of the felony murder rule. I actual
>> knowledge of two home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in
>> crime were killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded)
>> is serving a life term. In the other there were two partners in crime,
>> one killed, the other convicted of murder under the felony murder rule.
>>
>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>
>>> Fraid not.
>>
>
> As I recall, that is the law used to charge Angela Davis with murder
> during a terrorist attack in which she participated, in California,
> in the 60's.

But not with FIRST DEGREE murder.

"Savageduck" > wrote in message
news:2014112215382052845-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2014-11-22 22:24:02 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
>> news:2014112213224244856-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all,
>>>>>>> like:
>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that
>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>>>
>>>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>>>> himself.
>>>
>>> Actually true in California.
>>
>> Nope.
>
> Where exactly did you get your information regarding California Law?

From the legislation and what has happened in court, the only place that
matters on that.

>>> There have been several cases where a partner in crime has been killed
>>> as a result of action by a victim and the survivor has been charged and
>>> convicted of murder.
>>
>> But not with FIRST DEGREE MURDER.
>
> Many times yes, murder in the first degree,

It can not be first degree murder unless there is intent and
is wilful and premeditated with malice aforethought.

> and in California, sometimes "Special Circumstances Murder".

Separate matter entirely.

>>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>>> and most other forms of murder.
>>
>> There is also a key difference between FIRST DEGREE and SECOND DEGREE
>> murder.
>
> ...and apparently you aren't aware of those differences as they apply to
> California Law.

You're wrong.

>>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional
>>> or accidental.
>>
>> But not FIRST DEGREE murder when there is no intent to murder.

> Not necessarily, when the intent of the felony/attempted felony is murder,
> and a crime partner is killed by the potential victim, the surviving crime
> partner can be charged and convicted of first degree murder, and even
> Special circumstances murder in California. All under the felony murder
> rule.

Felony murder is not the same thing as first degree murder.

>>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>>> felony murder
>>
>> Felony murder isnt the same thing as FIRST DEGREE murder.
>
> It can be depending on the felony.

Only if there is all of intent, wilful and premeditated with malice
aforethought

>>> if his partner accidentally shoots someone while attempting to rob a
>>> bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving life terms in
>>> California because of the felony murder rule. I actual knowledge of two
>>> home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in crime were
>>> killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded) is serving
>>> a life term.
>>
>> But not for FIRST DEGREE murder.

> In one of those cases yes,

That is not the one I made the comment on at the top and
you claimed was first degree murder in California. It isnt.

and it was a special circumstances case
> where the individual convicted was sentenced to life without the
> possibility of parole.

Irrelevant to whether the one I brought up is first degree murder. It isnt.

>> In the other there were two
>>> partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
>>> felony murder rule.
>>
>> Again, he wasn’t convicted of FIRST DEGREE murder.

> You seem to be amazingly ill informed about California Law, even for
> somebody posting from wherever it is in the Pacific you are posting from.

You can't even manage to work out what is being discussed,
whether the situation I brought up is FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

>>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>>
>>>> Fraid not.
>>>
>>> It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law Enforcement
>>> officer in this State.
>>
>> No, not with FIRST DEGREE murder. You are talking
>> about FELONY murder, a different crime entirely.

> Not necessarily.

Yes, its certainly true that a particular murder can be
both first degree murder and felony murder. The one
I brought up is not first degree murder tho.

>>>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>>>>
>>>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States
>
> Jamming
>>>>
>>>>> cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person
>>>>> to
>>>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>>>> degree murder.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> That depends on the will of the local D.A..
>>
>> Nope, the court would toss it in the bin if he was stupid enough to try
>> that.
>
> Not necessarily.
>
>> It isnt even felony murder either.
>
> Not necessarily
>
> I suggest you familiarize yourself with the California Penal Code Sections
> 187-199.

I already did that thanks, long before you ever showed up.

> Particularly section 189 where you will find this:

> "All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive
> device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of
> ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison,
> lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate,
> and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration
> of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery,
> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. All other
> kinds of murders are of the second degree."

> Note these included words: "..., or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape,
> carjacking, robbery,
> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree."

That does NOT say that the death that I brought up is first degree murder.

Thanks for that proof that your comment was just plain wrong.

> So get back to us once you actually know what you are talking about.

You've just proven that I do. Thanks for that.

On 2014-11-23 01:58:02 +0000, "290jkl" > said:

>
>
> "technomaNge" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/22/2014 03:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually true in California. There have been several cases where a
>>> partner in crime has been killed as a result of action by a victim and
>>> the survivor has been charged and convicted of murder.
>>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>>> and most other forms of murder.
>>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional
>>> or accidental.
>>>
>>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>>> felony murder if his partner accidentally shoots someone while
>>> attempting to rob a bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving
>>> life terms in California because of the felony murder rule. I actual
>>> knowledge of two home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in
>>> crime were killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded)
>>> is serving a life term. In the other there were two partners in crime,
>>> one killed, the other convicted of murder under the felony murder rule.
>>>
>>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>>
>>>> Fraid not.
>>>
>>
>> As I recall, that is the law used to charge Angela Davis with murder
>> during a terrorist attack in which she participated, in California,
>> in the 60's.
>
> But not with FIRST DEGREE murder.

Check your history books. Angela Davis was charged with aggravated
kidnapping and first degree murder in the death of Judge Harold Haley,
along with conspiracy to commit murder and kidnapping.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-11-23 02:10:21 +0000, "290jkl" > said:

>
>
> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
> news:2014112215382052845-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2014-11-22 22:24:02 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
>>> news:2014112213224244856-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>> On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>>>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that would be
>>>>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>>>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending himself.
>>>>
>>>> Actually true in California.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Where exactly did you get your information regarding California Law?
>
> From the legislation and what has happened in court, the only place
> that matters on that.

What legislation, and what cases specifically?

>>>> There have been several cases where a partner in crime has been killed
>>>> as a result of action by a victim and the survivor has been charged and
>>>> convicted of murder.
>>>
>>> But not with FIRST DEGREE MURDER.
>>
>> Many times yes, murder in the first degree,
>
> It can not be first degree murder unless there is intent and
> is wilful and premeditated with malice aforethought.

Where did you get that?

>> and in California, sometimes "Special Circumstances Murder".
>
> Separate matter entirely.

yup! but it still counts.

>>>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>>>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>>>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>>>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
>>>> and most other forms of murder.
>>>
>>> There is also a key difference between FIRST DEGREE and SECOND DEGREE murder.
>>
>> ...and apparently you aren't aware of those differences as they apply
>> to California Law.
>
> You're wrong.

Just how did you become an expert on California Law?

>>>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>>>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
>>>> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's
>>>> intentional or accidental.
>>>
>>> But not FIRST DEGREE murder when there is no intent to murder.
>
>> Not necessarily, when the intent of the felony/attempted felony is
>> murder, and a crime partner is killed by the potential victim, the
>> surviving crime partner can be charged and convicted of first degree
>> murder, and even Special circumstances murder in California. All under
>> the felony murder rule.
>
> Felony murder is not the same thing as first degree murder.

It can be.

>>>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>>>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>>>> felony murder
>>>
>>> Felony murder isnt the same thing as FIRST DEGREE murder.
>>
>> It can be depending on the felony.
>
> Only if there is all of intent, wilful and premeditated with malice
> aforethought

You say that enough times you might believe it.

>>>> if his partner accidentally shoots someone while attempting to rob a
>>>> bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving life terms in
>>>> California because of the felony murder rule. I actual knowledge of two
>>>> home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in crime were
>>>> killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded) is serving
>>>> a life term.
>>>
>>> But not for FIRST DEGREE murder.
>
>> In one of those cases yes,
>
> That is not the one I made the comment on at the top and
> you claimed was first degree murder in California. It isnt.

If you are referring to the cell phone blocker's actions resulting in a
death, that is going to depend on how they charge the blocking of cell
service, and the circumstances of any related death. That is a
hypothetical anyway.

> and it was a special circumstances case
>> where the individual convicted was sentenced to life without the
>> possibility of parole.
>
> Irrelevant to whether the one I brought up is first degree murder. It isnt.

What exactly did you bring up?

>>> In the other there were two
>>>> partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
>>>> felony murder rule.
>>>
>>> Again, he wasn’t convicted of FIRST DEGREE murder.
>
>> You seem to be amazingly ill informed about California Law, even for
>> somebody posting from wherever it is in the Pacific you are posting
>> from.
>
> You can't even manage to work out what is being discussed,
> whether the situation I brought up is FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

I know very well what constitutes first degree murder, second degree
murder, special circumstances, how the felony murder rule is applied,
what voluntary and involuntary manslaughter are, along with a whole
bunch of other stuff you wouldn't know about in the California Penal
Code.

>>>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraid not.
>>>>
>>>> It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law Enforcement
>>>> officer in this State.
>>>
>>> No, not with FIRST DEGREE murder. You are talking
>>> about FELONY murder, a different crime entirely.
>
>> Not necessarily.
>
> Yes, its certainly true that a particular murder can be
> both first degree murder and felony murder.

Are we slowly gaining a bit of understanding?

> The one I brought up is not first degree murder tho.

....and you know this, how?

>>>>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>>>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States

Jamming

cellphone
>>>>>
>>>>>> signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>>>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>>>>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>>>>> degree murder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>> That depends on the will of the local D.A..
>>>
>>> Nope, the court would toss it in the bin if he was stupid enough to try that.
>>
>> Not necessarily.
>>
>>> It isnt even felony murder either.
>>
>> Not necessarily
>>
>> I suggest you familiarize yourself with the California Penal Code
>> Sections 187-199.
>
> I already did that thanks, long before you ever showed up.

....and yet you remain so very wrong.

>> Particularly section 189 where you will find this:
>
>> "All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive
>> device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of
>> ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison,
>> lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate,
>> and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration
>> of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery,
>> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
>> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
>> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
>> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
>> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. All other
>> kinds of murders are of the second degree."
>
>> Note these included words: "..., or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape,
>> carjacking, robbery,
>> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
>> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
>> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
>> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
>> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree."
>
> That does NOT say that the death that I brought up is first degree murder.
>
> Thanks for that proof that your comment was just plain wrong.
>
>> So get back to us once you actually know what you are talking about.
>
> You've just proven that I do. Thanks for that.

Actually you don't have a clue.
Now where was it you said you lived, and how long have you been a legal
professional in California?


--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Savageduck" > wrote in message
news:2014112218454439081-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2014-11-23 02:10:21 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>
>>
>>
>> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
>> news:2014112215382052845-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2014-11-22 22:24:02 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>>> "Savageduck" > wrote in message
>>>> news:2014112213224244856-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>>> On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>>>>>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all,
>>>>>>> like:
>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all,
>>>>>>>>> like:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that
>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>>>>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually true in California.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Where exactly did you get your information regarding California Law?
>>
>> From the legislation and what has happened in court, the only place that
>> matters on that.
>
> What legislation, and what cases specifically?
>
>>>>> There have been several cases where a partner in crime has been killed
>>>>> as a result of action by a victim and the survivor has been charged
>>>>> and convicted of murder.
>>>>
>>>> But not with FIRST DEGREE MURDER.
>>>
>>> Many times yes, murder in the first degree,
>>
>> It can not be first degree murder unless there is intent and
>> is wilful and premeditated with malice aforethought.
>
> Where did you get that?
>
>>> and in California, sometimes "Special Circumstances Murder".
>>
>> Separate matter entirely.
>
> yup! but it still counts.
>
>>>>> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
>>>>> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
>>>>> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
>>>>> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony
>>>>> murder and most other forms of murder.
>>>>
>>>> There is also a key difference between FIRST DEGREE and SECOND DEGREE
>>>> murder.
>>>
>>> ...and apparently you aren't aware of those differences as they apply to
>>> California Law.
>>
>> You're wrong.
>
> Just how did you become an expert on California Law?
>
>>>>> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
>>>>> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of
>>>>> the felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's
>>>>> intentional or accidental.
>>>>
>>>> But not FIRST DEGREE murder when there is no intent to murder.
>>
>>> Not necessarily, when the intent of the felony/attempted felony is
>>> murder, and a crime partner is killed by the potential victim, the
>>> surviving crime partner can be charged and convicted of first degree
>>> murder, and even Special circumstances murder in California. All under
>>> the felony murder rule.
>>
>> Felony murder is not the same thing as first degree murder.
>
> It can be.
>
>>>>> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
>>>>> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
>>>>> felony murder
>>>>
>>>> Felony murder isnt the same thing as FIRST DEGREE murder.
>>>
>>> It can be depending on the felony.
>>
>> Only if there is all of intent, wilful and premeditated with malice
>> aforethought
>
> You say that enough times you might believe it.
>
>>>>> if his partner accidentally shoots someone while attempting to rob a
>>>>> bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving life terms in
>>>>> California because of the felony murder rule. I actual knowledge of
>>>>> two home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in crime were
>>>>> killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded) is
>>>>> serving a life term.
>>>>
>>>> But not for FIRST DEGREE murder.
>>
>>> In one of those cases yes,
>>
>> That is not the one I made the comment on at the top and
>> you claimed was first degree murder in California. It isnt.

> If you are referring to the cell phone blocker's actions resulting in a
> death,

Nope, the first comment I made at the top.

that is going to depend on how they charge the blocking of cell
> service, and the circumstances of any related death. That is a
> hypothetical anyway.
>
>> and it was a special circumstances case
>>> where the individual convicted was sentenced to life without the
>>> possibility of parole.
>>
>> Irrelevant to whether the one I brought up is first degree murder. It
>> isnt.

> What exactly did you bring up?

The first comment I made at the top.

>>>> In the other there were two
>>>>> partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
>>>>> felony murder rule.
>>>>
>>>> Again, he wasn’t convicted of FIRST DEGREE murder.
>>
>>> You seem to be amazingly ill informed about California Law, even for
>>> somebody posting from wherever it is in the Pacific you are posting
>>> from.
>>
>> You can't even manage to work out what is being discussed,
>> whether the situation I brought up is FIRST DEGREE MURDER.
>
> I know very well what constitutes first degree murder, second degree
> murder, special circumstances, how the felony murder rule is applied, what
> voluntary and involuntary manslaughter are, along with a whole bunch of
> other stuff you wouldn't know about in the California Penal Code.

You clearly don’t when you got it completely
wrong about first comment I made at the top.

>>>>>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraid not.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law
>>>>> Enforcement officer in this State.
>>>>
>>>> No, not with FIRST DEGREE murder. You are talking
>>>> about FELONY murder, a different crime entirely.
>>
>>> Not necessarily.
>>
>> Yes, its certainly true that a particular murder can be
>> both first degree murder and felony murder.

> Are we slowly gaining a bit of understanding?

Nope, just agreeing with you on that particular point.

>> The one I brought up is not first degree murder tho.

> ...and you know this, how?

You proved that with the quote on what the law says about that.

>>>>>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>>>>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States
>
> Jamming
>
> cellphone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>>>>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>>>>>> degree murder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> That depends on the will of the local D.A..
>>>>
>>>> Nope, the court would toss it in the bin if he was stupid enough to try
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily.
>>>
>>>> It isnt even felony murder either.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily
>>>
>>> I suggest you familiarize yourself with the California Penal Code
>>> Sections 187-199.
>>
>> I already did that thanks, long before you ever showed up.
>
> ...and yet you remain so very wrong.

You just proved that I am not.

>>> Particularly section 189 where you will find this:
>>
>>> "All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive
>>> device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of
>>> ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison,
>>> lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate,
>>> and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration
>>> of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery,
>>> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
>>> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
>>> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
>>> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
>>> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. All other
>>> kinds of murders are of the second degree."
>>
>>> Note these included words: "..., or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape,
>>> carjacking, robbery,
>>> burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable
>>> under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is
>>> perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle,
>>> intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the
>>> intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree."
>>
>> That does NOT say that the death that I brought up is first degree
>> murder.
>>
>> Thanks for that proof that your comment was just plain wrong.
>>
>>> So get back to us once you actually know what you are talking about.
>>
>> You've just proven that I do. Thanks for that.
>
> Actually you don't have a clue.

You just proved that I do.

The law you cited says very explicitly indeed that the death
I mentioned in my first comment is second degree murder.

On 2014-11-23 03:45:08 +0000, "290jkl" > said:


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-11-23 03:45:08 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
> "Savageduck" > wrote in message news:

<< Clean up Snip >>

> Actually you don't have a clue.
>
> You just proved that I do.
>
> The law you cited says very explicitly indeed that the death
> I mentioned in my first comment is second degree murder.

For some reason you snipped my final question in my last post, or you
just don't want to answer it.

To help you recall, here is what I asked:
"Now where was it you said you lived, and how long have you been a
legal professional in California?"

....and for the record I live in California.


--
Regards,

Savageduck