Jetta Safety Rating

First a little background: My wife and I owned a 02 Jetta TDI (180k + miles)
which we both liked a great deal and were quite happy with. I fully expected to
get 400k+ miles out it. However, 3 weeks ago a driver in a '98 Jeep Wrangler
lost control on some 'black ice' and crossed into her lane, where they had a
drivers-side to drivers-side head on collision. Both vehicles were likely doing
around the posted speed limit of 55 mph, although actual impact speeds are not
known.

My wife remembers absolutely nothing of the crash. All four of her airbags
deployed. The Jeep driver limped away and although it took them 35 minutes to
cut her out of the car, my wife only sustained bruises and a 3.5" cut on the
back of her head. I say 'only' because looking at the car, it's a wonder she
survived at all. Many of the bruises were what are called 'deep tissue bruises'
and did not come to the surface for 2 or 3 days. She is extremely sore, even
now. She was flown to a Level 1 trauma center (at a cost of $15,000!) because
she was disoriented and while she spoke English at first, she quickly reverted
to her native language (she's from the Philippines). She's been off work the
last 3 weeks but will try going back this coming Monday, although I think it's a
bit early as her job is fairly physical. Both vehicles were totaled. I didn't
get that good of a look at the Jeep but the Jetta was virtually destroyed.

Now we get to my question. Our '02 Jetta had 5 Star safety rating for front and
side impact while the '09 Jetta has a 4 Star rating for front impact and a 5 for
side impact. Does anyone know - for certain - why the Jetta has a reduced
rating for '09? Have they changed the standards or has something changed with
the design of the car? I see the '08 has the same rating but I didn't research
it any further than those three years.

I'm just curious as to why the rating changed since we are now in the market for
a new vehicle. She's making a lot of noise about an SUV as a direct result of
this accident. We already have a '98 ¾ ton pick-up and have no real need for an
SUV. Plus, I'm not at all thrilled about losing the fuel economy we had with
the Jetta. While the safety rating wasn't a big part of the decision to buy the
02 Jetta, it's definitely going to be a factor in any new vehicle we get. This
leaves out both the 09 Jetta and Beetle (which she likes and I dislike). The
Tiguan, which she seemed to like, is not yet rated and while it's an interesting
vehicle, I'm not at all impressed with the economy.

Comments, anyone?
TIA,
jc

On 13 Feb 2009 14:37:01 -0600, jc >
wrote:

>First a little background: My wife and I owned a 02 Jetta TDI (180k + miles)
>which we both liked a great deal and were quite happy with. I fully expected to
>get 400k+ miles out it. However, 3 weeks ago a driver in a '98 Jeep Wrangler
>lost control on some 'black ice' and crossed into her lane, where they had a
>drivers-side to drivers-side head on collision. Both vehicles were likely doing
>around the posted speed limit of 55 mph, although actual impact speeds are not
>known.
>
>My wife remembers absolutely nothing of the crash. All four of her airbags
>deployed. The Jeep driver limped away and although it took them 35 minutes to
>cut her out of the car, my wife only sustained bruises and a 3.5" cut on the
>back of her head. I say 'only' because looking at the car, it's a wonder she
>survived at all. Many of the bruises were what are called 'deep tissue bruises'
>and did not come to the surface for 2 or 3 days. She is extremely sore, even
>now. She was flown to a Level 1 trauma center (at a cost of $15,000!) because
>she was disoriented and while she spoke English at first, she quickly reverted
>to her native language (she's from the Philippines). She's been off work the
>last 3 weeks but will try going back this coming Monday, although I think it's a
>bit early as her job is fairly physical. Both vehicles were totaled. I didn't
>get that good of a look at the Jeep but the Jetta was virtually destroyed.
>
>Now we get to my question. Our '02 Jetta had 5 Star safety rating for front and
>side impact while the '09 Jetta has a 4 Star rating for front impact and a 5 for
>side impact. Does anyone know - for certain - why the Jetta has a reduced
>rating for '09? Have they changed the standards or has something changed with
>the design of the car? I see the '08 has the same rating but I didn't research
>it any further than those three years.
>
>I'm just curious as to why the rating changed since we are now in the market for
>a new vehicle. She's making a lot of noise about an SUV as a direct result of
>this accident. We already have a '98 ¾ ton pick-up and have no real need for an
>SUV. Plus, I'm not at all thrilled about losing the fuel economy we had with
>the Jetta. While the safety rating wasn't a big part of the decision to buy the
>02 Jetta, it's definitely going to be a factor in any new vehicle we get. This
>leaves out both the 09 Jetta and Beetle (which she likes and I dislike). The
>Tiguan, which she seemed to like, is not yet rated and while it's an interesting
>vehicle, I'm not at all impressed with the economy.
>
>Comments, anyone?
>TIA,
>jc
You lose a lot of economy in an 09 diesel. I like my 50 mpg in my 03.
I would be annoyed getting in the 30's with a newer car.

The Jetta did a pretty good job as it weighed less than the opponent
and bumper heights were probably different. Also half a bumper and
crush zone makes the survival even more impressive.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...ct-Crash-Tests
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....=&aff=national

Maybe they refined their criteria and the 02 was on the edge anyway
and the 09 is against new criteria. No idea of course.


Get a SUV and you have to factor roll over risk. I drive 1987 Toyota
pickup. Sort of roll over friendly. Not so well protected from front
or side impacts.

When I wrecked my Rabbit I remember waking up in the ambulance.
Policeman said he saw me outside of the car so I must have crawled out
after the smashup. My short term memory was a mess for months. Who
knows maybe forever as I do not recall how good it was before the
crash. Trying to avoid TBI is a good thing.

http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/

Good to hear that your wife got lucky in what could have been a horrid
incident.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:02:13 -0500, Jim Behning
> wrote:

>You lose a lot of economy in an 09 diesel. I like my 50 mpg in my 03.
>I would be annoyed getting in the 30's with a newer car.
>
>The Jetta did a pretty good job as it weighed less than the opponent
>and bumper heights were probably different. Also half a bumper and
>crush zone makes the survival even more impressive.
>
>http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...ct-Crash-Tests
>http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....=&aff=national
>
>Maybe they refined their criteria and the 02 was on the edge anyway
>and the 09 is against new criteria. No idea of course.
>
>
>Get a SUV and you have to factor roll over risk. I drive 1987 Toyota
>pickup. Sort of roll over friendly. Not so well protected from front
>or side impacts.
>
>When I wrecked my Rabbit I remember waking up in the ambulance.
>Policeman said he saw me outside of the car so I must have crawled out
>after the smashup. My short term memory was a mess for months. Who
>knows maybe forever as I do not recall how good it was before the
>crash. Trying to avoid TBI is a good thing.
>
>http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/
>
>Good to hear that your wife got lucky in what could have been a horrid
>incident.

Thanks for the info, Jim. It sounds like you came out of your accident in at
least fairly good condition. There are a lot of people that have not. There's
so many things that can go wrong, it's downright scary.

I'm not at all thrilled about losing the economy we had with the Jetta, since we
do a fair bit of driving. My truck spends most of its life in the garage (or up
against a tree somewhere) and our primary vehicle gets 99.9% of our miles.
Going from the 42+ mpg diesel-powered Jetta to something that only gets in the
low 20's is not my idea of a smart move. But the wife has the majority of the
say in what we replace the Jetta with so all I can do is try and hit her up with
logic. It's funny, but I haven't had that much luck with that method in the
past!

I'd say the Jetta did an excellent job of protecting my wife. I may post a
couple of pictures on a.b.test, since I know people freak out when they're
posted here. When the EMT's called me and said that my wife had been in an
accident, I was concerned but not overly worried, as they said her condition was
good, that she was talking, etc. However, when I saw the car (from a distance -
it ended up facing the road, about 40' into a farm field) I became really
worried. In fact, I only recognized the car because of our license plate. I
was not aware at the time that they'd cut the roof off, so it looked to me as if
it had rolled. Honestly, I didn't stick around very to find out, as I had a
helicopter to chase after. It was close to an hour drive to the hospital for me
and believe me, all the things on the TBI website were going thru my mind during
that time. I had no idea what I'd find when I finally saw her. The relief at
finding that she really did have just minor injuries is indescribable.

But looking at the car up close a few days later, I was again in wonder how she
had escaped any broken bones or serious injury. In fact, one of her more
emotional friends actually puked when her husband drove her over to look at the
car. I'll be the first to admit that Filipina's can be drama queens but that
was going just a bit overboard. This gal is my wife's best friend but to get
physically sick over something like that, especially when she'd already spent
time talking with my wife and knew she was ok, was a little weird.

You're also right on regarding the disparity of size in the vehicles. Which is
why I say the Jetta did a fantastic job of keeping my wife as safe as it did.
The amount of destruction the Jetta endured is quite amazing. We visited the
crash site just yesterday and the 'debris field' is surprisingly large. I've
done a bit of work on the Jetta over the years and there were parts I had
absolutely no idea where they had been!

I'm going to be looking into the change in the Jetta's safety rating change to
see if I can find out the reason for the reduction. I liked the Jetta a lot
would have no trouble getting another one. Anyway, thanks again for the info.
Cheers,
jc

AND what about replacing it with one of the same vintage?
Unless you only want a new one so you can be the only ones breaking it in.
;-)

I just saw a '02 Jetta TDI auto here for $3500 but it had 453K miles on it
and a dent in the right 1/4 panel.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/1033195103.html

Glad everyone is well!
--
later,
(One out of many daves)

"jc" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:02:13 -0500, Jim Behning
> > wrote:
>
>>You lose a lot of economy in an 09 diesel. I like my 50 mpg in my 03.
>>I would be annoyed getting in the 30's with a newer car.
>>
>>The Jetta did a pretty good job as it weighed less than the opponent
>>and bumper heights were probably different. Also half a bumper and
>>crush zone makes the survival even more impressive.
>>
>>http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...ct-Crash-Tests
>>http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....=&aff=national
>>
>>Maybe they refined their criteria and the 02 was on the edge anyway
>>and the 09 is against new criteria. No idea of course.
>>
>>
>>Get a SUV and you have to factor roll over risk. I drive 1987 Toyota
>>pickup. Sort of roll over friendly. Not so well protected from front
>>or side impacts.
>>
>>When I wrecked my Rabbit I remember waking up in the ambulance.
>>Policeman said he saw me outside of the car so I must have crawled out
>>after the smashup. My short term memory was a mess for months. Who
>>knows maybe forever as I do not recall how good it was before the
>>crash. Trying to avoid TBI is a good thing.
>>
>>http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/
>>
>>Good to hear that your wife got lucky in what could have been a horrid
>>incident.
>
> Thanks for the info, Jim. It sounds like you came out of your accident in
> at
> least fairly good condition. There are a lot of people that have not.
> There's
> so many things that can go wrong, it's downright scary.
>
> I'm not at all thrilled about losing the economy we had with the Jetta,
> since we
> do a fair bit of driving. My truck spends most of its life in the garage
> (or up
> against a tree somewhere) and our primary vehicle gets 99.9% of our miles.
> Going from the 42+ mpg diesel-powered Jetta to something that only gets in
> the
> low 20's is not my idea of a smart move. But the wife has the majority
> of the
> say in what we replace the Jetta with so all I can do is try and hit her
> up with
> logic. It's funny, but I haven't had that much luck with that method in
> the
> past!
>
> I'd say the Jetta did an excellent job of protecting my wife. I may post
> a
> couple of pictures on a.b.test, since I know people freak out when they're
> posted here. When the EMT's called me and said that my wife had been in
> an
> accident, I was concerned but not overly worried, as they said her
> condition was
> good, that she was talking, etc. However, when I saw the car (from a
> distance -
> it ended up facing the road, about 40' into a farm field) I became really
> worried. In fact, I only recognized the car because of our license plate.
> I
> was not aware at the time that they'd cut the roof off, so it looked to me
> as if
> it had rolled. Honestly, I didn't stick around very to find out, as I had
> a
> helicopter to chase after. It was close to an hour drive to the hospital
> for me
> and believe me, all the things on the TBI website were going thru my mind
> during
> that time. I had no idea what I'd find when I finally saw her. The
> relief at
> finding that she really did have just minor injuries is indescribable.
>
> But looking at the car up close a few days later, I was again in wonder
> how she
> had escaped any broken bones or serious injury. In fact, one of her more
> emotional friends actually puked when her husband drove her over to look
> at the
> car. I'll be the first to admit that Filipina's can be drama queens but
> that
> was going just a bit overboard. This gal is my wife's best friend but to
> get
> physically sick over something like that, especially when she'd already
> spent
> time talking with my wife and knew she was ok, was a little weird.
>
> You're also right on regarding the disparity of size in the vehicles.
> Which is
> why I say the Jetta did a fantastic job of keeping my wife as safe as it
> did.
> The amount of destruction the Jetta endured is quite amazing. We visited
> the
> crash site just yesterday and the 'debris field' is surprisingly large.
> I've
> done a bit of work on the Jetta over the years and there were parts I had
> absolutely no idea where they had been!
>
> I'm going to be looking into the change in the Jetta's safety rating
> change to
> see if I can find out the reason for the reduction. I liked the Jetta a
> lot
> would have no trouble getting another one. Anyway, thanks again for the
> info.
> Cheers,
> jc

On 13 Feb 2009 14:37:01 -0600, jc > wrote:

I've posted a couple of pictures of the wife's Jetta on

alt.binaries.automobile

with the subject "Jetta Crash"
Cheers,
jc

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:28:43 -0600, "dave AKA vwdoc1"
> wrote:

>AND what about replacing it with one of the same vintage?
>Unless you only want a new one so you can be the only ones breaking it in.
>;-)
>
>I just saw a '02 Jetta TDI auto here for $3500 but it had 453K miles on it
>and a dent in the right 1/4 panel.
>http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/1033195103.html
>
>Glad everyone is well!

Thanks, Doc. I have a very poor history with used cars that seems to get worse
the better I know the individual I buy from. Maybe it's bad karma or something
but I've had terrible luck with every used car I've ever purchased in the past,
while I've had generally good luck with new ones.

And, I am pretty particular about breaking in new vehicles. I'm an aircraft
mechanic by trade and have always taken very good care of my vehicles. I think
my Jetta was worth on the order of $10+ which I'm sure is going to be a sticking
point between me and the insurance co. If someone had offered me that much, I
wouldn't have sold it. It was by no means perfect but we both liked the car and
I expected to get a lot of miles out of it before it died. I don't think it
had even reached the half-way point in it's life.

It's not as if I haven't had problems with new cars... in fact, that's the
reason GM and Ford are on my personal boycott list (along with Chrysler and all
Japanese cars). I will not buy new cars from any of them.

I did really well with my '94 Escort (140k relatively trouble free miles) but
the '98 Taurus was a ball buster (died the first time at 20k and went downhill
from there) and put me and Ford at odds. My GM boycott goes back to my '77 GMC
pickup, which I worked on continuously until I sold it in '89. I have a very
long memory when I think I've been screwed on something!

I may have to bite the bullet and go for a slightly used vehicle, perhaps a low
mileage 08 or something, as I'm not sure how we'll come out on this financially.
So far our bills are running in the $25K range and there's more to come, such as
the ER bill. If we get the 2 to 2.5x total loss my insurance man said we should
hold out for, we will get at the least an 08 model vehicle. For now, it's a
matter of the wife making up her mind what she wants.
Cheers,
jc

I could see someone puking if they knew their friend was in that car.

I have owned 2 new vehicles and 5 used vehicles. I have done tranny
swaps, engine swaps, struts, shocks, brakes, axles, paint and body
work, clutches, rings and bearings, interiors. Just about everything
you could do but I have never torn down a tranny. It really has not
bothered me on most of the cars as they were all 1984 or older and
fairly simple to work on. My 87 Toyota I bought new is frustrating me
with power/injection frustration. The 03 Jetta I bought new has had
scheduled maintenance. I have done two timing belts on, one clutch,
rear brakes, and soon struts and shocks. Pretty low maintenance. I
would think you take a bit of chance with a used TDI but you know you
might have to do a turbo, and if it runs good you do a deluxe timing
belt change as soon as you buy it. Maybe a fuel pump. If no one has
screwed up the engine with a bad timing belt you just have to boogie
man of turbo and fuel distributor and over a grand each. After that
the 2001-03 seems to be a fairly good run. Of course that gets you to
the same place you were with the last Jetta you owned. Transmission
was going to die soon if it was an automatic or you were due for a
clutch as the dual mass was fixin' to mess up soon.

I always get a bit nervous with a new vehicle as I know a lot about
the last car. The 66 Beetle carried forward to the 67 Beetle and the
66 Squareback. 70 Nova was on its own but all it needed was a 5 minute
idle mixture screw adjustment and it ran another X years. I sold it to
my brother after I got my winter out of it. Air cooled did not help
with the water cooled Rabbits except for a common drain plug wrench
for 37 years, maybe longer as I have not touched newer than 03 or
older than 61. What I knew about my 80 Rabbit carried to the 84 GTI.
Rabbits did not carry forward to the Jetta. What I knew about the 78
Toyota sort of carried forward to the 87 except for fuel injection. I
have seen stupid to me engineering on every car I have owned. Well
maybe not the Nova. It was so simple like the air cooled VWs but it
had heat in the winter.

I have yet to breaking in a car. My Toyota was driven up from Florida
to Georgia. The Jetta was transfered across state lines by my
salesman. All of my vehicles have done well on oil except the 84 GTI
which came out of a junkyard with 129,000 miles an dno hood or gas
cap. It had scratched cylinders when I removed that head. Actually it
was not all that bad on oil but it never had quite the power it should
have. I solved that with a short block swap from a 2L Audi block.

On 14 Feb 2009 19:13:02 -0600, jc >
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:28:43 -0600, "dave AKA vwdoc1"
> wrote:
>
>>AND what about replacing it with one of the same vintage?
>>Unless you only want a new one so you can be the only ones breaking it in.
>>;-)
>>
>>I just saw a '02 Jetta TDI auto here for $3500 but it had 453K miles on it
>>and a dent in the right 1/4 panel.
>>http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/1033195103.html
>>
>>Glad everyone is well!
>
>Thanks, Doc. I have a very poor history with used cars that seems to get worse
>the better I know the individual I buy from. Maybe it's bad karma or something
>but I've had terrible luck with every used car I've ever purchased in the past,
>while I've had generally good luck with new ones.
>
>And, I am pretty particular about breaking in new vehicles. I'm an aircraft
>mechanic by trade and have always taken very good care of my vehicles. I think
>my Jetta was worth on the order of $10+ which I'm sure is going to be a sticking
>point between me and the insurance co. If someone had offered me that much, I
>wouldn't have sold it. It was by no means perfect but we both liked the car and
>I expected to get a lot of miles out of it before it died. I don't think it
>had even reached the half-way point in it's life.
>
>It's not as if I haven't had problems with new cars... in fact, that's the
>reason GM and Ford are on my personal boycott list (along with Chrysler and all
>Japanese cars). I will not buy new cars from any of them.
>
>I did really well with my '94 Escort (140k relatively trouble free miles) but
>the '98 Taurus was a ball buster (died the first time at 20k and went downhill
>from there) and put me and Ford at odds. My GM boycott goes back to my '77 GMC
>pickup, which I worked on continuously until I sold it in '89. I have a very
>long memory when I think I've been screwed on something!
>
>I may have to bite the bullet and go for a slightly used vehicle, perhaps a low
>mileage 08 or something, as I'm not sure how we'll come out on this financially.
>So far our bills are running in the $25K range and there's more to come, such as
>the ER bill. If we get the 2 to 2.5x total loss my insurance man said we should
>hold out for, we will get at the least an 08 model vehicle. For now, it's a
>matter of the wife making up her mind what she wants.
>Cheers,
>jc
>
>

What a story and what pics, wow!
I feel for you and your wife, my family was rear ended in 1998 at 70mph and
shoved into the back of a minivan. We had a 1991 Camry wagon and it did a
super job protecting us. The car folded in the middle like a tent. Front and
rear completely crushed in, but the passenger compartment was almost
completely untouched.
Have you thought about a Passat TDI? We have a 2005 and get consistently in
the mid 40's combined driving. I have hypermiled it once and got 50.6 mpg.
It is larger and drives like a dream. There are a few really good ones in
the South East Virginia area at reasonable prices.

Cecil

"jc" > wrote in message
...
> On 13 Feb 2009 14:37:01 -0600, jc >
wrote:
>
> I've posted a couple of pictures of the wife's Jetta on
>
> alt.binaries.automobile
>
> with the subject "Jetta Crash"
> Cheers,
> jc

Is that the engine that has to have the balance shaft chain replaced
with gears? I think it is a Passat only issue as the Jettas do not
have the balance shaft. See www.tdiclub.com for more info.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...=balance+shaft

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:33:45 -0500, "Detailing Dude"
> wrote:

>What a story and what pics, wow!
>I feel for you and your wife, my family was rear ended in 1998 at 70mph and
>shoved into the back of a minivan. We had a 1991 Camry wagon and it did a
>super job protecting us. The car folded in the middle like a tent. Front and
>rear completely crushed in, but the passenger compartment was almost
>completely untouched.
>Have you thought about a Passat TDI? We have a 2005 and get consistently in
>the mid 40's combined driving. I have hypermiled it once and got 50.6 mpg.
>It is larger and drives like a dream. There are a few really good ones in
>the South East Virginia area at reasonable prices.
>
>Cecil
>
>"jc" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 13 Feb 2009 14:37:01 -0600, jc >
>wrote:
>>
>> I've posted a couple of pictures of the wife's Jetta on
>>
>> alt.binaries.automobile
>>
>> with the subject "Jetta Crash"
>> Cheers,
>> jc
>

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:33:45 -0500, "Detailing Dude" >
wrote:

>What a story and what pics, wow!
>I feel for you and your wife, my family was rear ended in 1998 at 70mph and
>shoved into the back of a minivan. We had a 1991 Camry wagon and it did a
>super job protecting us. The car folded in the middle like a tent. Front and
>rear completely crushed in, but the passenger compartment was almost
>completely untouched.
>Have you thought about a Passat TDI? We have a 2005 and get consistently in
>the mid 40's combined driving. I have hypermiled it once and got 50.6 mpg.
>It is larger and drives like a dream. There are a few really good ones in
>the South East Virginia area at reasonable prices.
>
>Cecil

Thanks, Cecil.
I suspect that if she comes away from this with enough money, it'll be a new
car. She hasn't said much lately but I think she's got her eye on an SUV and
the Tiguan is at the top of the list - at least, as far as I can tell.

I like the Passats but the new ones have the same issue as the new Jettas in
that they have the reduced front impact rating. I didn't research the year that
changed or even if the Passat ever had a 5 Star rating. Then there's the issue
with my rotten luck with used cars...

I may bite the bullet and go for a used one and anything that goes wrong, I can
blame on *her* bad luck?! Not sure if that angle will work or not, of course,
but might be worth a try. I sure wouldn't bet on my streak of bad luck being
over with!
Cheers,
jc