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#11
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Tesla to make electric vehicles with Toyota, buy NUMMI
"C. E. White" > wrote in
m: > Bitten by the spell checker - Tesla, NOT Tulsa. > > Ed I was just waiting for the tonguetwister myself <g>. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) |
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#12
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Tesla to make electric vehicles with Toyota, buy NUMMI
C. E. White wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "dr_jeff" > > Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.misc,rec.autos.tech > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:10 PM > Subject: Tesla to make electric vehicles with Toyota, buy NUMMI > > >> C. E. White wrote: >>> The way I see this, the US Government is giving Tesla half a billion >>> dollars and Tesla is forking some of this money over to Toyota. For >>> this Tesla is getting the old NUMMI Plant and Toyota gets to claim >>> they are investing 50 million in Tesla. >> >> The NUMMI plant may be old, but the equipment is modern. >> >> Gee, let's see: NUMMI is in Silicon Valley which has a bunch of >> well-motivated workers who understand technology and cars. They are >> also motivated to help the environment (this is CA, after all). Gee, >> sounds like using the plant is a good idea. > > I am not disputing that. But if using this plant was so great, why did > Toyota abandon it? Where they just trying to lose the UAW? I think that was part of it. The plant doesn't have a lot of other auto parts plants around, so auto parts had to be sent in from farther away. In addition, Toyota, like other car makers had too many plants. >>> My real question is - which way is the cash flowing? >> >> Toyota is investing $50,000,000 in Tulsa. So that's where the money is >> going: Toyota --> Tesla. Tesla is going to buy the plant for an >> undisclosed sum. > > I hope you are right, but I am skeptical. I think it far more likely > that Tulsa is paying Toyota a bundle for the plant using the US > Government money and that the 50 million dollar Toyota "investment" is > effectively a mark down in the cost of the plant. Maybe not. But I think > Tulsa likes the deal because they gain instant credibility (and it > solidifies their hold on a half of billion dollars of US Government > cash). Toyota likes the deal because they gain some good publicity, they > gain access to Tulsa technology Why would someone want technology from Oklahoma? > (although I wonder how valuable that > technology really is), and if Tulsa is eventually successful, they own a > piece of the pie. So do a lot of other companies, including Diamler AG. > Personally I doubt Tulsa can be successful unless a major automaker, > like Toyota, gets involved. So for Tulsa, this is probably a make or > break deal. Diamler is one of the automakers with an interest in them. > I do find it ironic that people rant and rave about the billions the US > Government has sunk into GM which is now effectively owned by the US and > Canadian governments, while no one seems at all upset that the US > Government is granting Tulsa a half a billion dollars free and clear. On > the basis of dollars per US job, or dollars per car, or the potential > impact on the US economy, the money spent on GM looks like a bargain if > you use the Tulsa give away as a yardstick. And now that Toyota is > swooping in, the half a billion dollars given to Tulsa has a good chance > of being essentially R&D money given to Toyota. And Diamler AG. >>> Is Toyota giving Tesla 50 million in cash, or is it really the other >>> way - Tesla giving Toyota some cash for the NUMMI Plant, and that >>> Toyota is claiming that the net difference between what they wish >>> they could get for the old NUMMI Plant and what Tesla actual pays for >>> it is equal to a 50 million dollar investment in Tesla? I suppose if >>> Tesla is successful, Toyota will end up owning the company >> >> Toyota is investing in Tesla, which means Tesla will be part owned by >> Toyota. >> >>> After reading about the sort of dishonest crap that goes on in the >>> world of big finance, I trust nothing I read about "investments." >> >> Gee, they don't provide details like what percent of the company will >> own. > > > Correct. And we don't know if they have options to buy more of Tulsa at > some predetermined price. I think Tulsa needs the deal to have any > chance of "making it." I think they would have made it without them. Telsa gets a plant near HQ that is up and near running, which will decrease the lead time. It a win-win situation for everyone. Well, except Ford, GM and Chrysler. > I worry Toyota is taking advantage of a desperate > company to unload a plant they don't want and gain access to some > potentially valuable technology mostly at the expense of the US > taxpayer. I hope I am wrong. I don't think they were as desperate as you might think. They were about to sign a deal to build a new plant near LA, when Mr. Toyoda stopped for a drive (literally). They hit it off and made a deal. Jeff > Ed |
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