98 Grand Marquis has Bent Frame, How much to Fix?

"m" > wrote in message
...
> Yah I meant that but what happens to the place where they attach the
> chain or what ever they use. My brother ordered the new upper conrol
> arm before he realized the frame was bent. He says he won't send it
> back yet because they might destory that part when they try to
> sraighten the frame.
>
> As far a the steel alloy, I'm sure it's low strength steel like A36.
> about 36,000 psi yield.
>
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 08:38:31 -0800 (PST), cavedweller
> > wrote:
>
>>On Dec 31 2008, 10:25 pm, m > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm actually a mechanical engineer with a stress analysis background
>>> so I know a lt about yielding materials, for instance, standard A36
>>> steel would have a yield strength of 36,000 psi, so they would need to
>>> load the frame (bending moment load) to exceed that if that is he
>>> actual steel alloy.
>>
>>Of course....and appropriate force application and the resultant
>>bending moment will cause localized stress to exceed the
>>yield..........but you meant that, didn't you?
>

It's called HSLAS High Strength Low Alloy Steel, Also, the crossmember, if a
bolted on unit, might be made of Martensitic Steel.

The amount the steel is alloyed, is a constantly changing amount.
Information from crash research and studies of cars crashed by consumers,
are used to re-engineer parts.

RK

Is it possible that the steering knuckle is all that is bent? My
brother really couldn't see wat was bent, just peeling paint. The
wheel is bent out, that is the top of the wheel now rubs the upper
ball joint.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:06:46 GMT, "Refinish King"
> wrote:

>
>"m" > wrote in message
.. .
>> RK Thanks for the input.
>>
>> How do they actually pull the frame?
>>
>> I'm actually a mechanical engineer with a stress analysis background
>> so I know a lt about yielding materials, for instance, standard A36
>> steel would have a yield strength of 36,000 psi, so they would need to
>> load the frame (bending moment load) to exceed that if that is he
>> actual steel alloy. I would also assume that they would need to do
>> this slowly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 00:59:00 GMT, "Refinish King"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"m" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Yes, I'll get an estimate and post it. I have no idea how high it can
>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>> I do know that my daughter is lucky she didn't get seriously injured
>>>> and it's a good thing she was driving a big car like a Gran Marquis.
>>>>
>>>> That's the most important thing, she didnt' get hurt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:41:29 -0600, "HLS" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"m" > wrote in message
om...
>>>>>> The problem with junking the car and buying an equialent one is that
>>>>>> for $2,000 I will probably get a car that need lots of repairs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Simple... get an estimate, and go from there.
>>>>
>>>
>>>If the charge is close to $500.00 or more, they saw you coming.
>>>
>>>To mount and measure is 2 hours of labor, at the prevailing rate in your
>>>area, and also, I doubt that would be more than a three hour pull.
>>>
>>>Especially if they are using computerized measuring.
>>>
>>>RK
>>>
>>
>Hello:
>
>If the car is of uni-body construction, it is clamped to the four farthest
>corners, of the rocker panels.
>
>It is a perimeter frame, either it's chained and blocked up with wood, to
>the machines platform.
>
>Then the towers, which are hydraulic, are put in the proper area, and pulls
>are made with the hydraulically driven chains. The pulls should start at the
>outer areas of the damage, then to the main damage. There are several
>adapters available, and some shop made adapters to pull , on which another
>poster called: "Special areas), I think.
>
>Which are actually control points.
>
>I'm certain the steering knuckle is also bent, as mentioned by another
>poster. So you will need a used right side suspension assembly, and it
>should align like new.
>
>RK
>

In article >,
cavedweller > wrote:
>On Jan 1, 11:17=A0am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> The steels they use for auto body and frame work today are really bizarre=
>.
>> They all have very tightly controlled cold working characteristics becaus=
>e
>> most of those parts are stamped. =A0So you see alloys with all kinds of
>> odd stuff in them (can you believe silicon/aluminum steels???) and the
>> yield curves are pretty weird-looking.
>>
>Hmmm. What to you would constitute odd silicon and aluminum levels?
>Are you referring to base residuals? Just asking.

Take a look at any of the HSLA alloys in the SAE book.... some of them
have nearly 1% silicon and as much as 0.25% aluminum. Weird. I don't
know how any of this affects the mechanical properties.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Jan 2, 10:07*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> In article >,
>
> cavedweller > wrote:
> >On Jan 1, 11:17=A0am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> >> The steels they use for auto body and frame work today are really bizarre=
> >.
> >> They all have very tightly controlled cold working characteristics becaus=
> >e
> >> most of those parts are stamped. =A0So you see alloys with all kinds of
> >> odd stuff in them (can you believe silicon/aluminum steels???) and the
> >> yield curves are pretty weird-looking.
>
> >Hmmm. * What to you would constitute odd silicon and aluminum levels?
> >Are you referring to base residuals? *Just asking.
>
> Take a look at any of the HSLA alloys in the SAE book.... some of them
> have nearly 1% silicon and as much as 0.25% aluminum. *Weird. *I don't
> know how any of this affects the mechanical properties.

Take a look at any metallugical text and learn about "killing" steels
in the ladle with silicon and aluminum.

"m" > wrote in message
...
> Is it possible that the steering knuckle is all that is bent? My
> brother really couldn't see wat was bent, just peeling paint. The
> wheel is bent out, that is the top of the wheel now rubs the upper
> ball joint.

****, dude...anything is possible...
You have to take it to a competent shop and measure the distortion to
know for sure what has to be done.

This is not rocket science..

m > wrote in news:fabnl4lc06aok1unevfkks1oh6r76ja5um@
4ax.com:

> REcently posted here about my 98 Grand Marquis auto accident involving
> my daughter.
>
> We originallythought it was the upper cotrol arm but that isnot the
> problem.
>
> Turns out that the frame is actually bent near the shock absorber
> bracket. My brother (my mechanic is sending the car over to a shop
> with a frame machine. I'm guessing > $1000 to un bend the frame? The
> car has a Kelly blue book value of $1500.00 I have no collision
> insurance (huge mistakeon my part with an 18 year old operator) so I
> will be forking over the full amount.
>
> Anyone have any experience good or bad about un bending the frame? Is
> the car safe to drive after this work is done?
> I have heard that the car never rides the same after this kind of work
> is done.
> After all, you to sraighten the frame you need to apply a load that
> will cause the steel to yield and you never get back the original
> shape.
>
>
>
>

ive been following your post since it started and have a thought. if i
were on a real budget for this adventure my process would be 1) make sure
the hood closes well and straight (unless sheet metal damage procludes)
and the fan blade doesnt rub the shroud. good hood alignment tells you
the frame isnt so pinched as to be a huge prob, fan blade clearance tells
you the radiator supports are pretty close to where they are suppose to
be........2) install known good control arm. bend mount flanges with
hammer or pliers if needed.....3) install known good wheel/tire assy.,
even if you take it from rear axle....4) test drive to check for steering
trueness, effort, and center return.........5) if step 4 worked out well
then to independant align. shop to check the numbers, esp. toe. then
watch for odd tire wear untill you retire car in a few months........BACK
OFF flamers! this is simply an alternative to putting large bucks in a
car needed for a short time with next to no value.....we have a lot here
in town with over 3oo rwd ford and mercs of that vintage selling at $750
to $1500 most of much later models (old gov cars)...........just a
thought for you M.................bill

Thanks for your reply, Bill. The hood opens and closes okay. No miss
alignment there. All dorors open and cloe okay. My brother (who is
also my mechanic) had the car towed to a good body shop. The guy in
the body hop will get back to me with an estimate but he told me that
he thinks it's the mounting location where the upper control arm
mounts. He says they use the old one to bend it back into place and
then install the new one and then align the front end. I also have a
spare wheel that came off the left front when I installed my snow
tires. I will use that wheel (Iknow that one is straight) and then
replace the bent rim later. The body shop will also give me an
estimate to fixt the dented fender and door. Not sure if I'll spend
the money on that, but the guy says he will try to give me a good
price becasue my brother sends him a lot of busines and he knows that
I have no insurance.



M


On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:24:53 GMT, bill > wrote:

>m > wrote in news:fabnl4lc06aok1unevfkks1oh6r76ja5um@
>4ax.com:
>
>> REcently posted here about my 98 Grand Marquis auto accident involving
>> my daughter.
>>
>> We originallythought it was the upper cotrol arm but that isnot the
>> problem.
>>
>> Turns out that the frame is actually bent near the shock absorber
>> bracket. My brother (my mechanic is sending the car over to a shop
>> with a frame machine. I'm guessing > $1000 to un bend the frame? The
>> car has a Kelly blue book value of $1500.00 I have no collision
>> insurance (huge mistakeon my part with an 18 year old operator) so I
>> will be forking over the full amount.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience good or bad about un bending the frame? Is
>> the car safe to drive after this work is done?
>> I have heard that the car never rides the same after this kind of work
>> is done.
>> After all, you to sraighten the frame you need to apply a load that
>> will cause the steel to yield and you never get back the original
>> shape.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>ive been following your post since it started and have a thought. if i
>were on a real budget for this adventure my process would be 1) make sure
>the hood closes well and straight (unless sheet metal damage procludes)
>and the fan blade doesnt rub the shroud. good hood alignment tells you
>the frame isnt so pinched as to be a huge prob, fan blade clearance tells
>you the radiator supports are pretty close to where they are suppose to
>be........2) install known good control arm. bend mount flanges with
>hammer or pliers if needed.....3) install known good wheel/tire assy.,
>even if you take it from rear axle....4) test drive to check for steering
>trueness, effort, and center return.........5) if step 4 worked out well
>then to independant align. shop to check the numbers, esp. toe. then
>watch for odd tire wear untill you retire car in a few months........BACK
>OFF flamers! this is simply an alternative to putting large bucks in a
>car needed for a short time with next to no value.....we have a lot here
>in town with over 3oo rwd ford and mercs of that vintage selling at $750
>to $1500 most of much later models (old gov cars)...........just a
>thought for you M.................bill