diagnose this

I have not noticed any increase in oil usage. Plugs 2 and 5 are
exceptionally clean and white. The others are more of the normal
"gray". What's the scoop?

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:50:43 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:

>Codes? Is it using more oil than normal? Check plugs #2 and #5
>
>
>"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
.. .
>> 92 Ford Explorer 4.0L OHV V6 130K miles, 10K on double plat plugs,
>> nearly new plug wires. O2 sensor was replaced about 40K ago
>>
>> Sometimes Runs rough when first started. Not just first start of the
>> day, but even when warmed up and then shut down for 15 minutes it will
>> often run rough initially like one cylinder is missing.
>>
>> Roughness usually goes away after it's warmed up but lately it's
>> started to have a bucking/missing/popping under light acceleration.
>> Giving it more gas usually smooth's it out. It will run on up to
>> redline and shift into the next gear and has no problem running up to
>> 90 mph. So unlike what I think of as the typical 'worn out plug"
>> misfire that shows up at high rpm and high load, this show up at
>> medium rpm light to medium load.
>>
>> It has not turned on the check engine light
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Things I'm thinking it might be..
>>
>> water in gas
>> bad gas
>> bad injector(s)
>> bad coil
>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:34:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>I have not noticed any increase in oil usage. Plugs 2 and 5 are
>exceptionally clean and white. The others are more of the normal
>"gray". What's the scoop?
>

Generic answer: 2 and 5 maybe seeing an improper mix, or may be being
'scrubbed' from a coolant leak into the cylinders.

PeterD wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:34:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
> wrote:
>
> >I have not noticed any increase in oil usage. Plugs 2 and 5 are
> >exceptionally clean and white. The others are more of the normal
> >"gray". What's the scoop?
> >
>
> Generic answer: 2 and 5 maybe seeing an improper mix, or may be being
> 'scrubbed' from a coolant leak into the cylinders.

Yes, one possible guess might be a small coolant leak that only leaks
when the engine is turned off. That can foul a plug for a little while at
start up. But this thread is old enough, by now one would expect the
missing coolant would be noticed.

-jim

"Ulysses" > wrote

> Just curious, but did you have intake manifold gasket
> leaks and NO coolant loss or white smoke at startup? I'm
> having trouble imagining a manifold gasket leak without
> coolant going somewhere, either inside the engine or
> outside. Unless it was ONLY the upper gasket that was
> leaking. Seems kinda unlikely.

No coolant loss noticed, no white smoke at startup. I'm
not defending the diagnosis or what was done, but this last
fix seems to be working, with a couple of thousand miles on
the car since the repair. Over the previous 2 years and 10s
of thousands of miles the problem always resurfaced (after
each of the several other attempts to fix it) the first time
I started the car with temps below 50.

Previous attempts to fix the problem included replacing
plugs, replacing wiring to the plugs, replacing an/the
oxygen sensor, replacing the fuel pump relay, and a couple
of other things I don't remember.

Best regards to all.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:48:13 -0400, PeterD > wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:34:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
>wrote:
>
>>I have not noticed any increase in oil usage. Plugs 2 and 5 are
>>exceptionally clean and white. The others are more of the normal
>>"gray". What's the scoop?
>>
>
>Generic answer: 2 and 5 maybe seeing an improper mix, or may be being
>'scrubbed' from a coolant leak into the cylinders.

There doesn't seem to be any missing coolant or any smoke out the
back.

On 20 Mar 2010 09:11:22 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>>Sometimes Runs rough when first started. Not just first start of the
>>day, but even when warmed up and then shut down for 15 minutes it will
>>often run rough initially like one cylinder is missing.
>>
>>Roughness usually goes away after it's warmed up but lately it's
>>started to have a bucking/missing/popping under light acceleration.
>>Giving it more gas usually smooth's it out. It will run on up to
>>redline and shift into the next gear and has no problem running up to
>>90 mph. So unlike what I think of as the typical 'worn out plug"
>>misfire that shows up at high rpm and high load, this show up at
>>medium rpm light to medium load.
>
>Check the fuel pressure regulator.
>--scott


It's keeping a steady 35 psi.

"CWLee" > wrote in message
m...
>
>
> "Ulysses" > wrote
>
>> Just curious, but did you have intake manifold gasket leaks and NO
>> coolant loss or white smoke at startup? I'm having trouble imagining a
>> manifold gasket leak without coolant going somewhere, either inside the
>> engine or outside. Unless it was ONLY the upper gasket that was leaking.
>> Seems kinda unlikely.
>
> No coolant loss noticed, no white smoke at startup. I'm not defending
> the diagnosis or what was done, but this last fix seems to be working,
> with a couple of thousand miles on the car since the repair. Over the
> previous 2 years and 10s of thousands of miles the problem always
> resurfaced (after each of the several other attempts to fix it) the first
> time I started the car with temps below 50.
>
> Previous attempts to fix the problem included replacing plugs, replacing
> wiring to the plugs, replacing an/the oxygen sensor, replacing the fuel
> pump relay, and a couple of other things I don't remember.
>
> Best regards to all.

Thanks. I'll keep this in mind if my '97 starts doing what yours was doing.
As for the other fixes most of them sound like things that probably need to
be done anyway so it doesn't sound like you wasted much money on them.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:58:58 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>92 Ford Explorer 4.0L OHV V6 130K miles, 10K on double plat plugs,
>nearly new plug wires. O2 sensor was replaced about 40K ago
>
>Sometimes Runs rough when first started. Not just first start of the
>day, but even when warmed up and then shut down for 15 minutes it will
>often run rough initially like one cylinder is missing.
>
>Roughness usually goes away after it's warmed up but lately it's
>started to have a bucking/missing/popping under light acceleration.
>Giving it more gas usually smooth's it out. It will run on up to
>redline and shift into the next gear and has no problem running up to
>90 mph. So unlike what I think of as the typical 'worn out plug"
>misfire that shows up at high rpm and high load, this show up at
>medium rpm light to medium load.
>
>It has not turned on the check engine light
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Things I'm thinking it might be..
>
>water in gas
>bad gas
>bad injector(s)
>bad coil


Problem solved.

Shop didn't like the Motorcraft double platinum plugs that were in it,
said it shouldn't be using platinum plugs. Told them the plugs only
had 8K on them. They couldn't find anything specific with their "test
equipment" so they recommended an injector cleaning. Told them to go
ahead. Very slight improvement but still not running right. Shop
said they were 98% sure new non-plat plugs would fix it. Told them
to go ahead. It fixed it. Now it runs fine. Very strange. I've
used motorcraft plat plugs for 137,000 miles with no problems till
now.

On 4/7/2010 1:30 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:58:58 -0700, Ashton >
> wrote:
>
>> 92 Ford Explorer 4.0L OHV V6 130K miles, 10K on double plat plugs,
>> nearly new plug wires. O2 sensor was replaced about 40K ago
>>
>> Sometimes Runs rough when first started. Not just first start of the
>> day, but even when warmed up and then shut down for 15 minutes it will
>> often run rough initially like one cylinder is missing.
>>
>> Roughness usually goes away after it's warmed up but lately it's
>> started to have a bucking/missing/popping under light acceleration.
>> Giving it more gas usually smooth's it out. It will run on up to
>> redline and shift into the next gear and has no problem running up to
>> 90 mph. So unlike what I think of as the typical 'worn out plug"
>> misfire that shows up at high rpm and high load, this show up at
>> medium rpm light to medium load.
>>
>> It has not turned on the check engine light
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Things I'm thinking it might be..
>>
>> water in gas
>> bad gas
>> bad injector(s)
>> bad coil
>
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Shop didn't like the Motorcraft double platinum plugs that were in it,
> said it shouldn't be using platinum plugs. Told them the plugs only
> had 8K on them. They couldn't find anything specific with their "test
> equipment" so they recommended an injector cleaning. Told them to go
> ahead. Very slight improvement but still not running right. Shop
> said they were 98% sure new non-plat plugs would fix it. Told them
> to go ahead. It fixed it. Now it runs fine. Very strange. I've
> used motorcraft plat plugs for 137,000 miles with no problems till
> now.

Check the underside of the coil pack to see if the potting compound is
cracked. It takes less energy to fire standard plugs than plats.

On Apr 7, 1:30*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:58:58 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >92 Ford Explorer 4.0L OHV V6 130K miles, 10K on double plat plugs,
> >nearly new plug wires. *O2 sensor was replaced about 40K ago
>
> >Sometimes Runs rough when first started. *Not just first start of the
> >day, but even when warmed up and then shut down for 15 minutes it will
> >often run rough initially like one cylinder is missing.
>
> >Roughness usually goes away after it's warmed up but lately it's
> >started to have a bucking/missing/popping under light acceleration.
> >Giving it more gas usually smooth's it out. *It will run on up to
> >redline and shift into the next gear and has no problem running up to
> >90 mph. *So unlike what I think of as the typical 'worn out plug"
> >misfire that shows up at high rpm and high load, this show up at
> >medium rpm light to medium load.
>
> >It has not turned on the check engine light
>
> >Any ideas?
>
> >Things I'm thinking it might be..
>
> >water in gas
> >bad gas
> >bad injector(s)
> >bad coil
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Shop didn't like the Motorcraft double platinum plugs that were in it,
> said it shouldn't be using platinum plugs. *Told them the plugs only
> had 8K on them. *They couldn't find anything specific with their "test
> equipment" so they recommended an injector cleaning. *Told them to go
> ahead. *Very slight improvement but still not running right. *Shop
> said they were 98% sure new non-plat plugs would fix it. * Told them
> to go ahead. *It fixed it. *Now it runs fine. *Very strange. *I've
> used motorcraft plat plugs for 137,000 miles with no problems till
> now.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

some engines just don't like platinums, especially older engines that
may have a little blowby. They tend to foul and never burn clean. I
hear of this most often with Bosch FWIW.

nate