BMW 318ic 1997 less than 87,000 US Miles

Folks,

I have a minor problem in that the item you will see on the link which
follows seems to be broken and leaking water. The non-metal nipple had
cracked some time ago and was a minor leak from what I am told. This
most likely dates to this same time last year when the radiator blew a
hole and needed to be replaced (and don't those come with a cap as a
matter of normal sale).

The PDF file shows all I can of the location and condition of the item
and any help is requested. Like how to reach this area, what to remove
in other words and any gotchas I need to look for.

Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
was the case when the radiator blew a hole.

In that incident last year I just turned off the engine which -- was no
further problem as the car was parked and idling for a while. Humm, come
to time about it, that heat exchanger or manifold might have been the
problem all along; having a minor leak and draining the reserve tank and
thereby the radiator for several days to weeks as I only check fluids
about weekly and I might have missed that prior week. Geez, why is this
thing made so poorly if it is a heat exchanger or is it a heater core
manifold bypass. Either way, poor design.

Please go to --

http://www.divshare.com/download/14321842-56b

-- for the PDF titled BMW 01.pdf which is
454 KB (465,156 bytes) in size.

TIA

--
Mike C

Mike C > wrote:
>Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
>design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
>radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
>was the case when the radiator blew a hole.

In your photos I can't see what has failed although I do see a lot of signs
of maintenance issues there.

Is what has failed the nipple on the thermostat cover or the lower water
distribution pipe?

>In that incident last year I just turned off the engine which -- was no
>further problem as the car was parked and idling for a while. Humm, come
>to time about it, that heat exchanger or manifold might have been the
>problem all along; having a minor leak and draining the reserve tank and
>thereby the radiator for several days to weeks as I only check fluids
>about weekly and I might have missed that prior week. Geez, why is this
>thing made so poorly if it is a heat exchanger or is it a heater core
>manifold bypass. Either way, poor design.

Yes, the cooling system is underdesigned on these cars. Everybody knows
it. Therefore when you replace the radiator you should be replacing all
the hoses, all the plastic parts (and that includes the water distribution
pipe and maybe even the expansion tank), and the water pump while you're in
there. If they didn't do that when they replaced your radiator, they
should have.

Cooling system replacement on these cars, unfortunately, is an expected
part of normal maintenance and you're at about the point where you need to
be doing that. Oh, also you NEED to do the cooling system flush on these
annually, or they fail even faster.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike C > wrote:
>Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
>design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
>radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
>was the case when the radiator blew a hole.

In your photos I can't see what has failed although I do see a lot of signs
of maintenance issues there.

Is what has failed the nipple on the thermostat cover or the lower water
distribution pipe?

>In that incident last year I just turned off the engine which -- was no
>further problem as the car was parked and idling for a while. Humm, come
>to time about it, that heat exchanger or manifold might have been the
>problem all along; having a minor leak and draining the reserve tank and
>thereby the radiator for several days to weeks as I only check fluids
>about weekly and I might have missed that prior week. Geez, why is this
>thing made so poorly if it is a heat exchanger or is it a heater core
>manifold bypass. Either way, poor design.

Yes, the cooling system is underdesigned on these cars. Everybody knows
it. Therefore when you replace the radiator you should be replacing all
the hoses, all the plastic parts (and that includes the water distribution
pipe and maybe even the expansion tank), and the water pump while you're in
there. If they didn't do that when they replaced your radiator, they
should have.

Cooling system replacement on these cars, unfortunately, is an expected
part of normal maintenance and you're at about the point where you need to
be doing that. Oh, also you NEED to do the cooling system flush on these
annually, or they fail even faster.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/16/2011 8:43 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Mike > wrote:
>> Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
>> design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
>> radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
>> was the case when the radiator blew a hole.
>
> In your photos I can't see what has failed although I do see a lot of signs
> of maintenance issues there.
>
> Is what has failed the nipple on the thermostat cover or the lower water
> distribution pipe?
>

Thanks for pointing that out Scott, yes the failed item is the one which
has the broken plastic nipple. Is that a thermostat cover then? This
nipple connected to the lower radiator via the hose I indicate. The
upper hose has not failed yet but from what you and others say below and
prior on this NG it is just a matter of time.


> Yes, the cooling system is under-designed on these cars. Everybody knows
> it. Therefore when you replace the radiator you should be replacing all
> the hoses, all the plastic parts (and that includes the water distribution
> pipe and maybe even the expansion tank), and the water pump while you're in
> there. If they didn't do that when they replaced your radiator, they
> should have.
>
> Cooling system replacement on these cars, unfortunately, is an expected
> part of normal maintenance and you're at about the point where you need to
> be doing that. Oh, also you NEED to do the cooling system flush on these
> annually, or they fail even faster.
> --scott

I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.

Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)

On 3/16/2011 8:43 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Mike > wrote:
>> Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
>> design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
>> radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
>> was the case when the radiator blew a hole.
>
> In your photos I can't see what has failed although I do see a lot of signs
> of maintenance issues there.
>
> Is what has failed the nipple on the thermostat cover or the lower water
> distribution pipe?
>

Thanks for pointing that out Scott, yes the failed item is the one which
has the broken plastic nipple. Is that a thermostat cover then? This
nipple connected to the lower radiator via the hose I indicate. The
upper hose has not failed yet but from what you and others say below and
prior on this NG it is just a matter of time.


> Yes, the cooling system is under-designed on these cars. Everybody knows
> it. Therefore when you replace the radiator you should be replacing all
> the hoses, all the plastic parts (and that includes the water distribution
> pipe and maybe even the expansion tank), and the water pump while you're in
> there. If they didn't do that when they replaced your radiator, they
> should have.
>
> Cooling system replacement on these cars, unfortunately, is an expected
> part of normal maintenance and you're at about the point where you need to
> be doing that. Oh, also you NEED to do the cooling system flush on these
> annually, or they fail even faster.
> --scott

I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.

Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)

On Mar 16, 3:15*pm, Mike C > wrote:
> I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
> items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
> you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
> They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
> but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.
>
> Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)

If you plan to work on your car, get yourself a Bentley Manual, you
won't regret it:

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bmw...ir-manual.html

Good Luck!

On Mar 16, 3:15*pm, Mike C > wrote:
> I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
> items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
> you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
> They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
> but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.
>
> Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)

If you plan to work on your car, get yourself a Bentley Manual, you
won't regret it:

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bmw...ir-manual.html

Good Luck!

On 3/17/2011 4:31 PM, bfd wrote:
> On Mar 16, 3:15 pm, Mike > wrote:
>> I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
>> items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
>> you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
>> They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
>> but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.
>>
>> Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)
> If you plan to work on your car, get yourself a Bentley Manual, you
> won't regret it:
>
> http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bmw...ir-manual.html
>
> Good Luck!
>


I located a correct year edition copy of this repair manual and with
more than just a brief skimming though I determine there is no direct
information re the problem I have.

The device might be mentioned in a few places such as the electrical
diagrams or figures those entries refer you to such as the poor quality
fig 19 on 610-7 (but only incidentally) where an arrow points to a
different device, the ECT for my M44 engine. Several of the electrical
diagrams indicate a cooling system dual sensor which this part might be
the "holder' for -- but none show a picture or figure for that part or
its location; ELE-95 mentions the dual temperature switch for example,
for the 4 cyl E44.

At 113-2 fig 3 it might be talking about the item as a part of the
engine cooling system, which it is, but does not deal with the
replacement of that unit anywhere in the 'low price donated and sold
cheap' book I bought (I love my local friends of the library folk). This
item is "labeled" cooling flange but this fig refers to the M42 engine,
although it looks remarkably like the item I need to replace on the E44
in my 318ic. I am at a loss here folks, does anyone actually work on
their engine/vehicle and can that person figure out what item I am
describing and a check sheet of the things to remove to access that
area? Hopefully the replacement part is less expensive than the initial
manufacturer part as I do not see how injection molded bake-lite
fixtures are considered a serviceable choice and that is how this
material seems to be constructed.

The figure at 113-2 fig 3 is the best match-up I have seen. So use that
as your starting point and please inform me of the method of
replacement, i.e., what to take off to get to there and what to do when
I arrive at that part. A part number and name would be very helpful and
if there is an after market part that would perform better, please
inform me. If all this does is hold one (or two) sensor(s) in the
(divided maybe) cooling fluid flow then maybe I can rig a better
"holder" from a couple of galvanized pipes and/or nipples threaded to
accommodate the sensor(s) but I need to get to the part to determine any
further choices I might have, or at least have a better idea of what the
part is by name and number and a figure or drawing of what it looks like
in cross-section and function.

Mike C

On 3/17/2011 4:31 PM, bfd wrote:
> On Mar 16, 3:15 pm, Mike > wrote:
>> I will do this as soon as I can figure out how to disconnect all these
>> items in the proper order, the Chilton guide I have is a joke, I tell
>> you, an absolute prat fall for that organization if ever there was such.
>> They might have researched and printed a poorer guide about another car
>> but if so I have yet to see that in the racks.
>>
>> Mike C (still needing direction, for me and my buddy)
> If you plan to work on your car, get yourself a Bentley Manual, you
> won't regret it:
>
> http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bmw...ir-manual.html
>
> Good Luck!
>


I located a correct year edition copy of this repair manual and with
more than just a brief skimming though I determine there is no direct
information re the problem I have.

The device might be mentioned in a few places such as the electrical
diagrams or figures those entries refer you to such as the poor quality
fig 19 on 610-7 (but only incidentally) where an arrow points to a
different device, the ECT for my M44 engine. Several of the electrical
diagrams indicate a cooling system dual sensor which this part might be
the "holder' for -- but none show a picture or figure for that part or
its location; ELE-95 mentions the dual temperature switch for example,
for the 4 cyl E44.

At 113-2 fig 3 it might be talking about the item as a part of the
engine cooling system, which it is, but does not deal with the
replacement of that unit anywhere in the 'low price donated and sold
cheap' book I bought (I love my local friends of the library folk). This
item is "labeled" cooling flange but this fig refers to the M42 engine,
although it looks remarkably like the item I need to replace on the E44
in my 318ic. I am at a loss here folks, does anyone actually work on
their engine/vehicle and can that person figure out what item I am
describing and a check sheet of the things to remove to access that
area? Hopefully the replacement part is less expensive than the initial
manufacturer part as I do not see how injection molded bake-lite
fixtures are considered a serviceable choice and that is how this
material seems to be constructed.

The figure at 113-2 fig 3 is the best match-up I have seen. So use that
as your starting point and please inform me of the method of
replacement, i.e., what to take off to get to there and what to do when
I arrive at that part. A part number and name would be very helpful and
if there is an after market part that would perform better, please
inform me. If all this does is hold one (or two) sensor(s) in the
(divided maybe) cooling fluid flow then maybe I can rig a better
"holder" from a couple of galvanized pipes and/or nipples threaded to
accommodate the sensor(s) but I need to get to the part to determine any
further choices I might have, or at least have a better idea of what the
part is by name and number and a figure or drawing of what it looks like
in cross-section and function.

Mike C

On 3/16/2011 8:43 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Mike > wrote:
>> Is it possible to replace this non-metal item with an after market
>> design made from metal which is going to withstand the heat of the
>> radiator fluid for a lot longer, even to the point of over-boil temps as
>> was the case when the radiator blew a hole.
> Is what has failed the nipple on the thermostat cover or the lower water
> distribution pipe?

Thanks Scott, these two possibilities gave me a range to search to find
what I need. Both of these terms seem to refer to the same device I show
below, odd that there is a dual naming convention within BMW.

I have worked through what is needed before I remove the part and will
have on hand the replacement parts to tie up this fault.

The part has been identified as

by URO as Coolant Pipe or WATER DIST Hose Connector

it is OE Part Number: 11 53 1 714 738 A

made up from these sub assembly
Parts: Engine Coolant Pipe, [O-Ring, Hose Connector Clamps not supplied]
Also uses # 11-53-1-709-157 or # 11-53-1-709-157-M17 O-ring (the M17 is
more than likely 17mm)

It is also called "Engine Cooling -- Thermostat Housing" (does not
contain any thermostat that I can see, maybe because it is an input to
that item) there is an actual TH which could in event of the dual name
usage cause major confusion unless folks use pictures or descriptions...
sigh.

All the items blocking access to the connector need to be removed in
order and replaced in the reverse order, there are no special tools
needed nor are there any particular road blocks to the replacement of
this item. This is very straight forward it would seem.

It is claimed the URO brand is inferior to the OE part, it is not able
to seal as well due to an injection molding issue, it sags and will not
be parallel when it is mounted with the two (2) bolts to the driver's
side (American driver side that is) of the engine block. The sag is
toward the block and the impact to the seal area is to pinch the O-ring
at the side closest to the pipe and to expand the distance the O-ring
needs to cover at the side past the pipe; leaks are from both areas from
time to time, no way to seal unless you use RTV able to take the heat
and cold and cross your fingers, and reapply the RTV from time to time.

The method of sealing is of the cantilever effect -- the bolts prevent
the enclosure from riding out of the hole by stiffening the connector on
one side only rather than actually being a part of the seal factor or
allowing the spanning of the engine block entry hole with bolts on both
sides of the connector to assist in the sealing. Additionally, the
existing bolts are below the center of action of any portion of the
connectors normal functions, the hoses will exert several axis of
movement, the pressured warm/hot/cool/cold water will cause a series of
distortions to the connector at various points and even if all this is
within the design parameters it is a poor design over all.

My local BMW has the OE version of course for ~ $19 + $3 for the O-ring
(yes, highway robbers need to take lessons from dealerships) and has
these items in stock and placed to the side for my pickup soon.

So, not only are we subjected to poor design practices by the
manufacturer, gouging prices by the dealerships, we have to put up with
poor repair manuals and shoddy instructions from folks like us in the
newsgroups. Gee, ain't this the life, bimmer forever nevermore!

As soon as I can I am unloading my person of this car-- the experience
of driving it -used as it is- is not worthy of repeating even with a new
version since I understand the way of thinking behind the overall
designer mentality; this is not a thing of beauty, it is a crippled steed.

Mike C