Valve Spring Retainer Wear

Hello all,

Now that my '74 standard bug is no longer my daily driver I find
myself worrying about something that I noticed a while ago. The engine
is a Mexican 1600 with unknown mileage. I am embarassed to say it does
not have cooling flaps and the air seal isn't perfect either so I know
it's been running hotter than it should. It has overheated once (that
I know of) when the fan belt came off. However it runs pretty well and
I keep up with valve adjustments and basic maintenace and the car has
treated me better than I have treated it.

During the valve-adjustment-before-last I noticed an odd shiney circle
on a valve spring retainer, like it was wearing on the rocker arm as
it rotates. I think it was #3 exhaust but not sure. During the next
valve adjustment I saw it had gotten worse, and had appeared on a
second spring retainer. Again I don't recall which but I think it may
have been one of the driverside intake valves. The adjusters have some
adjustment left but obviously something is amiss...

My worry is that the valves are stretching and in danger of breaking.
Is there something else it could be? The car is currently in storage,
but the more I think about it the more I want to take it apart before
driving it again. I've not heard of this particular phenomenon before
and would appreciate any thoughts on the matter...

Thanks,
Harry

""Harry Smith"" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> Now that my '74 standard bug is no longer my daily driver I find
> myself worrying about something that I noticed a while ago. The engine
> is a Mexican 1600 with unknown mileage. I am embarassed to say it does
> not have cooling flaps and the air seal isn't perfect either so I know
> it's been running hotter than it should. It has overheated once (that
> I know of) when the fan belt came off. However it runs pretty well and
> I keep up with valve adjustments and basic maintenace and the car has
> treated me better than I have treated it.
>
> During the valve-adjustment-before-last I noticed an odd shiney circle
> on a valve spring retainer, like it was wearing on the rocker arm as
> it rotates. I think it was #3 exhaust but not sure. During the next
> valve adjustment I saw it had gotten worse, and had appeared on a
> second spring retainer. Again I don't recall which but I think it may
> have been one of the driverside intake valves. The adjusters have some
> adjustment left but obviously something is amiss...
>
> My worry is that the valves are stretching and in danger of breaking.
> Is there something else it could be? The car is currently in storage,
> but the more I think about it the more I want to take it apart before
> driving it again. I've not heard of this particular phenomenon before
> and would appreciate any thoughts on the matter...
>
> Thanks,
> Harry

could be valves stretching... as they stretch you adjust to make up the
difference by loosening the adjuster... as the height comes up the retainer
will get closer to the rocker arm itself... it could just be normal to this
point, but the valve geometry may have not been setup correctly when the
engine was assembled.... I personally would still be concerned and would
remove the rocker assemblies and at least lay a straight edge across the
valve stems to see if there is any major differences in height.. if there
is, it's likely time for a valvejob.

Harry, you are correct in not wanting to drive the car, any contact
with the retainer will wear the keeper and cause you to drop a valve
in the cylinder, I have one on my key chain. Wish I read this two
hours ago, I just finished a valve adjustment and would have been
interested to look at the geometry to see what could be contacting the
retainer, seems the adjuster should be keeping the rocker arm stood
off from there, sounds like there isn't enough of the valve sticking
out to maintain the proper clearance, were there caps on the valves?
maybe one of those came off if the valves were out of adjustment,
could also be side play in your rocker arms. Could be worn keepers
allowing the retainer to ride up in the valve, whatever it is, it is a
potential catastrophic failure. I am interested to hear what you find.
V/R
Darrell


On Oct 24, 8:34*am, "\"Harry Smith\"" > wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Now that my '74 standard bug is no longer my daily driver I find
> myself worrying about something that I noticed a while ago. The engine
> is a Mexican 1600 with unknown mileage. I am embarassed to say it does
> not have cooling flaps and the air seal isn't perfect either so I know
> it's been running hotter than it should. It has overheated once (that
> I know of) when the fan belt came off. However it runs pretty well and
> I keep up with valve adjustments and basic maintenace and the car has
> treated me better than I have treated it.
>
> During the valve-adjustment-before-last I noticed an odd shiney circle
> on a valve spring retainer, like it was wearing on the rocker arm as
> it rotates. *I think it was #3 exhaust but not sure. During the next
> valve adjustment I saw it had gotten worse, and had appeared on a
> second spring retainer. Again I don't recall which but I think it may
> have been one of the driverside intake valves. The adjusters have some
> adjustment left but obviously something is amiss...
>
> My worry is that the valves are stretching and in danger of breaking.
> Is there something else it could be? The car is currently in storage,
> but the more I think about it the more I want to take it apart before
> driving it again. *I've not heard of this particular phenomenon before
> and would appreciate any thoughts on the matter...
>
> Thanks,
> Harry

On Oct 24, 11:19 pm, wrote:
> Harry, you are correct in not wanting to drive the car, any contact
> with the retainer will wear the keeper and cause you to drop a valve
> in the cylinder, I have one on my key chain. Wish I read this two
> hours ago, I just finished a valve adjustment and would have been
> interested to look at the geometry to see what could be contacting the
> retainer, seems the adjuster should be keeping the rocker arm stood
> off from there, sounds like there isn't enough of the valve sticking
> out to maintain the proper clearance, were there caps on the valves?
> maybe one of those came off if the valves were out of adjustment,
> could also be side play in your rocker arms. Could be worn keepers
> allowing the retainer to ride up in the valve, whatever it is, it is a
> potential catastrophic failure. I am interested to hear what you find.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I didn't know that there were supposed to be caps between the valves
and the adjusters...perhaps that is half of the problem, as I don't
remember seeing anything like that. The car has been rather badly
*******ized...bondo-heavy bodywork, butchered wiring, no thermostat,
009 distributor (that at least I have remedied), one piece windows
that don't roll up correctly, the list goes on. Pretty much
everything wrong with the car is something that a previous owner
"improved," so I wouldn't be surprised if they had messed something up
under the valve covers. When it was a daily driver I didn't have time
to do much more than keep it running and now its in storage several
hours away from where I'm living. Unfortunately it will be some time
until I get back around to checking this out, several months I
expect. Mainly I was just looking for things I may have overlooked,
such as your suggestion about valve stem caps.

Peace,
Harry

Harry, didn't mean to imply that you should have lash caps, they are
mostly used with high performance rocker arms. Stock, I don't think
they belong, it is really obvious if you have one missing when you
compare to the other valves.

On Oct 28, 12:01*am, wrote:
> Harry, didn't mean to imply that you should have lash caps, they are
> mostly used with high performance rocker arms. Stock, I don't think
> they belong, it is really obvious if you have one missing when you
> compare to the other valves.

Ah, okay. The engine has a "stock" valvetrain to the best of my
knowledge. I put that in quotes because it could easily be a strange
mix of who-knows-what parts. Clearly the only solution is to take it
apart and see what's going on, I was just hoping to hear from someone
who had seen this particular phenomenon before.

I'm afraid I will have to leave you hanging for a while though. I work
as a merchant mariner and am about to get on a ship for a few months.
When I get home though I'm going to get my bug sorted out. I've been
driving my new daily driver, a fullsize rearwheel drive behemoth of a
Cadillac Fleetwood. It's great on the highway, but I went I visit my
Bug in my storage shed yesterday and remembered how much I miss the
old girl.