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#1
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Greedy *******s.....
Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500 with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list. I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with 500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries and many months, I finally received an email stating that the price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested. So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked him if they are selling the car for the price on the window sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask. He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year? -- http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.htm http://911research.wtc7.net http://www.st911.org |
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#2
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Greedy *******s.....
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:11:51 -0400, Henry > puked:
> > Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500 >with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list. >I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with >500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries >and many months, I finally received an email stating that the >price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested. > So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not >the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable >for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom >floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never >asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two >things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But >I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car >is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for >its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked >him if they are selling the car for the price on the window >sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask. >He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy >thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price >to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford >should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some >weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for >them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year? My dad bought a T-bird the first year that they were reintroduced from a dealership down here for list while others were charging a premium. He was on a list and even custom ordered the seats a single color instead of two colors. I wonder if there are any dealerships even considering doing that with this car... -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? |
#3
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Greedy *******s.....
ZombyWoof wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:11:51 -0400, Henry > wrote > something wonderfully witty: > >> Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500 >> with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list. >> I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with >> 500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries >> and many months, I finally received an email stating that the >> price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested. >> So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not >> the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable >> for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom >> floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never >> asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two >> things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But >> I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car >> is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for >> its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked >> him if they are selling the car for the price on the window >> sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask. >> He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy >> thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price >> to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford >> should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some >> weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for >> them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year? >> > This is only my guess, but I think it is fair to say "as much as they > can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the > market price, it is the market itself. If that dealer is able to move > the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at > $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when > they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then > sticker price. I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their profit. You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the highest price we could get and not a penny lower. Why would we expect the dealer to do any less than us? If Ford makes their stated production numbers then I think the price will fall to around MSRP sometime next year. Right now they are being gobbled up by people that have plenty of money and desire for the car. The same thing happened with the Ford GT and now you can get one for around MSRP. It takes time to weed out the crazies that will pay nearly any price to have the car today. |
#4
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Greedy *******s.....
In article >, ZombyWoof wrote:
> can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the > market price, it is the market itself. I am so tired of that saying.... the markets are often manipulated, and the GT500 can be used as a text book study of market manipulation and artificial scarcity. > If that dealer is able to move > the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at > $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when > they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then > sticker price. When each dealer gets one or two, they can up the price a great deal and wait for a sucker, the abberation of an uninformed buyer. Not only that, but it's not like the dealer down the street or the next town over can bring the price down. He's only got a couple to sell too, so even if he sells them at sticker, the first dealer can still wait for a sucker or someone with more money than sense and wants it now. Ideal free market conditions would have another dealer being able to come in and supply more cars at a lower price to undercut the dealers charging $20K over sticker. Ford controls the supply of cars without regard to what dealers are charging and thusly the market isn't free. $65K isn't the price a free market will bear, but rather the maximum price a manipulated market can be pushed to. This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting of the price. |
#5
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Greedy *******s.....
In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their > profit. Because it's a manipulated market. It's the same reason $3+ a gallon gasoline gets people upset. It's a manipulated market where others can't come in and undercut the competition. Let's say instead of dealer alotments, ford had open ordering until they ran out of the limiting part. What would happen? Everyone would rush to the dealer selling for the lowest price and order a GT500. Which example is really free market? I would say it's the later where dealerships compete to make sales. > You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the > dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the > highest price we could get and not a penny lower. New in production cars are not collector items. There are no more vintage GT500s being made. There X surviors and that's it. There are Y people that want them. Apples and oranges. |
#6
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Greedy *******s.....
"Brent P" > wrote in message . .. > In article >, ZombyWoof wrote: > >> can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the >> market price, it is the market itself. > > I am so tired of that saying.... the markets are often manipulated, and > the GT500 can be used as a text book study of market manipulation and > artificial scarcity. > >> If that dealer is able to move >> the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at >> $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when >> they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then >> sticker price. > > When each dealer gets one or two, they can up the price a great deal and > wait for a sucker, the abberation of an uninformed buyer. Not only that, > but it's not like the dealer down the street or the next town over can > bring the price down. He's only got a couple to sell too, so even if he > sells them at sticker, the first dealer can still wait for a sucker or > someone with more money than sense and wants it now. > > Ideal free market conditions would have another dealer being able to come > in and supply more cars at a lower price to undercut the dealers charging > $20K over sticker. Ford controls the supply of cars without regard to > what dealers are charging and thusly the market isn't free. $65K isn't > the price a free market will bear, but rather the maximum price a > manipulated market can be pushed to. > > This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and > artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create > conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting > of the price. > Excellent post! When I went to the Javitts center at the GT500's debut they said they were going to make as many as the market demanded of these cars. I was very pleased to hear this as well as them trying to price it at what the '04 Cobra cost. I figured they can easily do this without the independent rear suspensions to cut costs. Instead they limited the production which increases the demand in turn raising the prices. Ford would have been better off making 20k or more of these cars which isnt much when you think of it as four per dealership. I bet if they had increased production there would be much fewer BMW's or Corvettes sold. I just left a local Ford dealership and asked about the Shelby GT that comes out in January. They said they were also going to cost $20k over sticker, sigh... Ford needs to change this mentality people do remember and when the Camaro and Charger come out will throw it back in their face if they could. IMO that is the only reason why they are getting away with this, no competition. Personally I would buy a Corvette over a Shelby GT costing $55k more car for the money and a weight a sports car should be. Greed is what is killing this company. A great example of this is buying a bunch of the European luxury makers and forgetting what Henry Ford believed in the first place, a car for the common man. I do see the Japanese car manufacturers making the same mistakes as the American counterparts. They are cookie cutting cars the same way. Example is that a Camry, no it says Lexus ES. I also hear with the increased production numbers they are having much more reliability problems. Nick |
#7
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Greedy *******s.....
Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote: >> I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their >> profit. > > Because it's a manipulated market. It's the same reason $3+ a gallon > gasoline gets people upset. It's a manipulated market where others can't > come in and undercut the competition. > > Let's say instead of dealer alotments, ford had open ordering until they > ran out of the limiting part. What would happen? Everyone would rush to > the dealer selling for the lowest price and order a GT500. Which example > is really free market? I would say it's the later where dealerships > compete to make sales. In the end no one is holding a gun to a buyers head and forcing him to pay a given price. You know who really sets the price? It's the buyer. If no one is willing to pay the dealer's asking price then they will eventually lower the it until the car sells. It's a real simple concept. The reason the prices are silly right now is there are a few people willing to pay what I consider and outrageous price for the few available cars. Once the dealers wade through these buyers and the cars aren't moving at the current prices they will have to lower the price to get off the inventory. >> You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the >> dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the >> highest price we could get and not a penny lower. > > New in production cars are not collector items. There are no more vintage > GT500s being made. There X surviors and that's it. There are Y people > that want them. Apples and oranges. And there will ultimately be a limited number of GT500s. A vintage GT500 falls under the same supply and demand forces as a 2007 GT500. If Ford made GT500s like they make Fusions what do you think the price would be? You and I are no different from Ford. We all will take the highest price for whatever item we are selling. I don't fault the dealer for getting the highest price they can command. It is the way capitalism works. I will be ****ed off at Ford if they don't produce the number of units they have stated. If they don't there is a good chance I will not be a Ford only buyer anymore. That is how I will make my statement on the matter. |
#8
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Greedy *******s.....
Henry,
Was the price clearly marked on the vehicle - as in on the window sticker? If so, get your financing lined up at your bank then walk in and ask for the sales manager. Tell him that you'll take the GT500 for the price they're advertising it for. When he says that's not the real price, that it's actually $70k then tell him you'll be back in with the local investigative news program to ask him why he's running a bait-and-switch. Be reasonable, but be a little loud about it and watch what happens. You could also mention that you'll be placing calls to your state's attorney general's office, better business bureau, chamber of commerce, etc. to let them know how that dealership does business. Then ask for the number to the Ford's regional rep, as well as the general manager and owner(s) of the dealership... If they're posting the price on the vehicle then they should honor that price. mark h |
#9
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Greedy *******s.....
Remember what MSRP stands for? It is Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail
Price. It is not the advertised, or final out the door, price. Mark Henry wrote: > Henry, > > Was the price clearly marked on the vehicle - as in on the window > sticker? If so, get your financing lined up at your bank then walk in > and ask for the sales manager. Tell him that you'll take the GT500 for > the price they're advertising it for. > > When he says that's not the real price, that it's actually $70k then > tell him you'll be back in with the local investigative news program to > ask him why he's running a bait-and-switch. Be reasonable, but be a > little loud about it and watch what happens. > > You could also mention that you'll be placing calls to your state's > attorney general's office, better business bureau, chamber of commerce, > etc. to let them know how that dealership does business. Then ask for > the number to the Ford's regional rep, as well as the general manager > and owner(s) of the dealership... > > If they're posting the price on the vehicle then they should honor that > price. > > mark h > |
#10
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Greedy *******s.....
In article >, ZombyWoof wrote:
> That is the textbook definition of supply & demand. The textbook doesn't have supply being manipulated. > Again supply & demand. There is only one source of supply for the > dealers, Ford and one source of supply for the end-consumers, the > dealers. Ford has for a multitude of reasons decided to keep the > supply of that particular car constrained in order to keep demand at a > point where the price won't get eroded. It is a specialty vehicle > after all. No one requires it, only wants it. So you're fine with market manipulations. You must enjoy $3.20/gallon gasoline then. After all, there are just so many companies with gasoline and they decide how to sell it, how to distribute it, how much to make, wether to maintain their pipelines or not. We don't need gasoline either, we can use other forms of transporation that aren't as enjoyable just we could use a beat up '92 Tempo instead of a '07 GT500. Ford can keep playing these games they are free to do so, but as we see here, it's turning off it's most loyal customer base. Part of the reason they are ****ter no doubt. Don't try to justify this pricing with free market reasoning when it is anything but a free market situation. >>This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and >>artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create >>conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting >>of the price. > The market always has a choice to reject any non life essential > product that is placed into it. What makes a market free is its > ability to demand or reject products placed into it. No one is forced > to buy GT500's at any price. And as we see, people are rejecting it and rejecting Ford (at least for the short term) as a result. But don't give me and any of the others who find this practice objectionable a line of crap that it's the free market and we have to love it. It's not free market, it's marketing. |
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