#1 Injector Problem on a 1995 Jetta

Mark Randol wrote:

> In article >, says...
>
>>Not shorted. The resistance across the injectors from the signal wire
>>to the common return wire is the same for all four at the connector.
>>Sorry I wasn't clear before. But there was a slightly pushed-in female
>>pin (on the ECU side of the connector) for the #1 injector wire.
>
>
> Wow! Sounds like you are on the right track. And a lot calmer than I'd
> be by now!
>
> If the connector to the ECU had corrosion to it, and this was from the
> battery, the ECU May be toast. If you conclude ECU you may as well pop
> it open and see if the crud got inside and is shorting stuff. Careful
> about static and stuff, but anything going in a car should be reasonably
> rugged.
>
> You might look into a rebuilt ECU instead of a 'new' one. I found a
> rebuilder for cruise control heads on eBay. The first one sent out was
> also bad, but they took it back and sent my repaired one back. That
> worked. Was MUCH cheaper than a ?new? unit from VW. I won't recommend
> them, but if you want to know who it was I can probably look it up.
> Shoot, I may have already posted it and you could find it in Google
> Groups.
>
> Mark
> '95 Jetta GLS

So...did the last check before shelling out for an ECU ($100 locally
from a junkyard)...and...the wire from the ECU plug to the big round
plug is open. Guess we'll move that jumper later today. ;-)

The calmness comes from having worked as a computer tech (starting in
the late 70's, when that meant using a 'scope) and a mechanic in prior
lives. A step at a time, proving things as you go, always gets you
there. Eventually. (Keeping the kid calm is another story.)

JRE

Getting back to this after trips out of town, etc.

See below. This bug is still kicking my butt.

(I've been working on cars for a Long Time. I'm not used to this and I
don't like it! Plus I want my winter beater back from my son.)

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> OK code 4411 from the blinks.
> I think a good scan tool could tell you more and might help you find the
> problem easier.
> You could ask someone here for assistance with their scanner
> http://www.steve-hall.com/cgi-bin/VAG-Locator.pl

I sent a note to the nearest one. Maybe he'll bring it over and it will
help. I read he

(http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/th...=7805&tstart=0)

....that the ECU might need to be reset under some circumstances. Any
clue whether that's true after a MAF replacement?

> Please explain/clarify exactly what is happening.
>
> The #1 injector fires at idle but not under a load huh? How did you tell
> that? blinkcode?

No, I can hear the injector fire using a stethescope. It sounds just
like the other ones, nice and steady. (Also, we swapped #1 and #4
injectors early on and the code did not move.) If I remove the
connector to that injector, the engine misses severely on that cylinder.
It loses about the same RPM whether I pull #1 or #4.

> And how do you know that it is #1 injector? blinkcode?

Yes. But at this point I think the 4411 code might mean misfire on #1
rather than really meaning open or short to #1 injector, which is what
Chilton's says. Misfire opens up some more possibilities, so I swapped
#1 and #4 spark plugs and put in new plug wires.

> Try using a scanner tool and watching the injector firing or the misfiring
> of that cylinder!

I'd love to but mine is OBD-II and I'm not buying one just for this.

> I have 'heard' about rails getting dirty.

Dirt in the rail would clog the injector, right? So swapping injectors
should move the problem. It does not.

> I have replaced fuel pressure regulators in the 1988-1992 Jettas.

Fuel pressure is 38psi at idle and under load. The Haynes manual says
it should be 36. My guess is that 2 PSI high is either gauge error or
insignificant.

> I have 'heard' about vacuum leaks killing 1-2 cylinders.

Bleeding propane around all the gaskets has no effect on engine RPM.

> I have seen spark plug wires that short out at different times.

They're new.

> But I guess dealing with the 4411 blinkcode then the problem is
> electrical..........
> I had to clean up the main engine wiring plug on a 1997 Jetta 2.0 that had
> mutiple running issues. I think it was due to the injectors not
> firing................. (MAYBE YOUR PROBLEM) hmmm but you bypassed this
> plug and ran wiring directly from the ECM to the #1 injector or did you only
> change the connector at the injector.

Both. The injector was jumpered directly to the wiring harness at the
ECU with its original plug disconnected, and then the original plug was
replaced.

The resistance of all the wires from injectors to ECU is identical
through the connector. I took all the tape off the engine harness and
the wires all look OK; no shorts there, not even intermittent ones. So
if there is a short or open (and I'm not buying that based on what my
DVM tells me), it's got to be between the big round connector and the ECU.

> Ahhh clean that too anyway using electrical cleaner and make sure it's seal
> is there too.

Everything has been cleaned with electrical connection cleaner.

>
> Interesting problem and I wish you luck!

Too interesting! Damn thing's still broken.

Additional info: The engine is down on power when driven. It feels like
it's more than one misfiring cylinder. At some combinations of RPM and
load, it "tries" to act normally for a half-second or so and then goes
back to the failure mode. Not sure whether the vastly reduced power is
due to a "limp home" mode.

Tomorrow I'll check #1's compression, the engine timing, and the valve
lift on #1 cylinder.

>
> later,
> dave
> (One out of many daves)
> http://vwdoc1.tripod.com/
>
>
>
> "JRE" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Mark Randol wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >, says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>When this problem occurred, I measured the resistance from the ECU side
>>>>of the connector to the #1 injector and then from the engine side to the
>>>>other three injectors. It was the same for all four injectors. Then,
>>>>just to be sure, I jumpered the #1 injector wiring around the connector.
>>>>No help. That's why I said the harness was good from the injector to the
>>>>other side of the big round connector in my OP.
>>>
>>>
>>>You're not saying you checked for a short. That's checking for an open.
>>>
>>>I haven't checked the wiring diagram, but if what I suspect is correct...
>>>
>>>To check for a short, unplug both ends of the circuit, like you said you
>>>did before. Check for a connection between the wires in the harness that
>>>go to the injector. Another way to say it is, at one of the connectors
>>>measure the connection between the pins that plug into the injector.
>>>There shouldn't be one. If there is, that's a short. I'd guess any
>>>reading above 100kohm is ok, but above 1Mohm should be what you see.
>>>Crud in connectors can also cause shorts. Try to do this with the
>>>connectors in close to the same position they're in when operating. If
>>>the wires have rubbed or cracked in a certain place, changing their
>>>position may eliminate the short while you're measuring. You might have
>>>to put one end in position and check the other end, then put the just
>>>measured one in position and check the as yet unmeasured end.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>'95 Jetta GLS
>>
>>Not shorted. The resistance across the injectors from the signal wire to
>>the common return wire is the same for all four at the connector. Sorry I
>>wasn't clear before. But there was a slightly pushed-in female pin (on
>>the ECU side of the connector) for the #1 injector wire.
>>
>>My son found that the O-ring seal for the ECU was not correctly installed
>>and there was lots of corrosion. He cleaned it out (with the proper
>>cleaner and a soft brass wire brush) and reseated it...no help.
>>
>>The wiring is jumpered around the connector for now from the ECU side of
>>the connector to the injector (with the right gauge wire, soldered,
>>insulated with heat shrink, taped to the original harness), the connector
>>to the injector itself is now new, and it still fails.
>>
>>We also swapped injectors and the problem does not move with the injector.
>>So the components remaining are the wiring from the ECU to the ECU side of
>>the big round plug and the ECU. Only thing left to do is measure the
>>resistance from the plug to the ECU, but it's looking more and more like
>>it must be the ECU...drat.
>>
>>I should also mention that #1 injector does fire...at idle. But given any
>>throttle or when the car is driven the engine is clearly not running on
>>all four cylinders and the only code is 4411.
>>
>>JRE
>
>
>

Wouldn't the 4411 code be electrical?
hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs to another injector? Put #1
plug on #2 injector to see if the codes change.
I wonder if a bad cam sensor (distributor) could throw a 4411 code.
Yep that vag-com scanner should help! Hopefully one with the tool will
assist you! ;-)

Make me happy and clean the grounds at the engine and the body! ;-)

More replies inside.

"JRE" > wrote in message
...
> Getting back to this after trips out of town, etc.
>
> See below. This bug is still kicking my butt.

Yeah ugly when there is a hidden problem or one hard to find. :-(

>
> (I've been working on cars for a Long Time. I'm not used to this and I
> don't like it! Plus I want my winter beater back from my son.)

You will be pleased when YOU beat this problem! ;-)

>
> dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
>> OK code 4411 from the blinks.
>> I think a good scan tool could tell you more and might help you find the
>> problem easier.
>> You could ask someone here for assistance with their scanner
>> http://www.steve-hall.com/cgi-bin/VAG-Locator.pl
>
> I sent a note to the nearest one. Maybe he'll bring it over and it will
> help. I read he
>
> (http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/th...=7805&tstart=0)
>
> ...that the ECU might need to be reset under some circumstances. Any clue
> whether that's true after a MAF replacement?

wouldn't be a bad idea!
New MAF? Correct one?

>
>> Please explain/clarify exactly what is happening.
>>
>> The #1 injector fires at idle but not under a load huh? How did you tell
>> that? blinkcode?
>
> No, I can hear the injector fire using a stethescope. It sounds just like
> the other ones, nice and steady. (Also, we swapped #1 and #4 injectors
> early on and the code did not move.) If I remove the connector to that
> injector, the engine misses severely on that cylinder. It loses about the
> same RPM whether I pull #1 or #4.
>
>> And how do you know that it is #1 injector? blinkcode?
>
> Yes. But at this point I think the 4411 code might mean misfire on #1
> rather than really meaning open or short to #1 injector, which is what
> Chilton's says. Misfire opens up some more possibilities, so I swapped #1
> and #4 spark plugs and put in new plug wires.
>
>> Try using a scanner tool and watching the injector firing or the
>> misfiring of that cylinder!
>
> I'd love to but mine is OBD-II and I'm not buying one just for this.
>
>> I have 'heard' about rails getting dirty.
>
> Dirt in the rail would clog the injector, right? So swapping injectors
> should move the problem. It does not.

Unless for some reason the rail is clogged............very remote
possibility though and I don't see how it could get clogged!

>
>> I have replaced fuel pressure regulators in the 1988-1992 Jettas.
>
> Fuel pressure is 38psi at idle and under load. The Haynes manual says it
> should be 36. My guess is that 2 PSI high is either gauge error or
> insignificant.

What if the FPR is leaking pass it's diaphram and into the vacuum hose?
That "unmetered" fuel might be directed into #1 cylinder

>
>> I have 'heard' about vacuum leaks killing 1-2 cylinders.
>
> Bleeding propane around all the gaskets has no effect on engine RPM.

Good but if the engine is running rich due to a fault FPR then the propane
might not do anything. Now a rich mixture along with a vacuum leak might
increase rpms, but might be adjusted by the ECM and the throttle body.

>
>> I have seen spark plug wires that short out at different times.
>
> They're new.

I still would not ASSuME! ;-)

>
>> But I guess dealing with the 4411 blinkcode then the problem is
>> electrical..........
>> I had to clean up the main engine wiring plug on a 1997 Jetta 2.0 that
>> had mutiple running issues. I think it was due to the injectors not
>> firing................. (MAYBE YOUR PROBLEM) hmmm but you bypassed this
>> plug and ran wiring directly from the ECM to the #1 injector or did you
>> only change the connector at the injector.
>
> Both. The injector was jumpered directly to the wiring harness at the ECU
> with its original plug disconnected, and then the original plug was
> replaced.
>
> The resistance of all the wires from injectors to ECU is identical through
> the connector. I took all the tape off the engine harness and the wires
> all look OK; no shorts there, not even intermittent ones. So if there is
> a short or open (and I'm not buying that based on what my DVM tells me),
> it's got to be between the big round connector and the ECU.

hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs? Put #1 plug on #2 injector
to see if the codes change.

>
>> Ahhh clean that too anyway using electrical cleaner and make sure it's
>> seal is there too.
>
> Everything has been cleaned with electrical connection cleaner.
>
>>
>> Interesting problem and I wish you luck!
>
> Too interesting! Damn thing's still broken.
>
> Additional info: The engine is down on power when driven. It feels like
> it's more than one misfiring cylinder. At some combinations of RPM and
> load, it "tries" to act normally for a half-second or so and then goes
> back to the failure mode. Not sure whether the vastly reduced power is
> due to a "limp home" mode.

Now how good is that Original ign coil?
Maybe there are 2 problems!

luck!
dave,
(One out of many daves)






>
> Tomorrow I'll check #1's compression, the engine timing, and the valve
> lift on #1 cylinder.
>
>>
>> later,
>> dave
>> (One out of many daves)
>> http://vwdoc1.tripod.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> "JRE" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Mark Randol wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article >, says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>When this problem occurred, I measured the resistance from the ECU side
>>>>>of the connector to the #1 injector and then from the engine side to
>>>>>the other three injectors. It was the same for all four injectors.
>>>>>Then, just to be sure, I jumpered the #1 injector wiring around the
>>>>>connector. No help. That's why I said the harness was good from the
>>>>>injector to the other side of the big round connector in my OP.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You're not saying you checked for a short. That's checking for an open.
>>>>
>>>>I haven't checked the wiring diagram, but if what I suspect is
>>>>correct...
>>>>
>>>>To check for a short, unplug both ends of the circuit, like you said you
>>>>did before. Check for a connection between the wires in the harness
>>>>that go to the injector. Another way to say it is, at one of the
>>>>connectors measure the connection between the pins that plug into the
>>>>injector. There shouldn't be one. If there is, that's a short. I'd
>>>>guess any reading above 100kohm is ok, but above 1Mohm should be what
>>>>you see. Crud in connectors can also cause shorts. Try to do this with
>>>>the connectors in close to the same position they're in when operating.
>>>>If the wires have rubbed or cracked in a certain place, changing their
>>>>position may eliminate the short while you're measuring. You might have
>>>>to put one end in position and check the other end, then put the just
>>>>measured one in position and check the as yet unmeasured end.
>>>>
>>>>Mark
>>>>'95 Jetta GLS
>>>
>>>Not shorted. The resistance across the injectors from the signal wire to
>>>the common return wire is the same for all four at the connector. Sorry I
>>>wasn't clear before. But there was a slightly pushed-in female pin (on
>>>the ECU side of the connector) for the #1 injector wire.
>>>
>>>My son found that the O-ring seal for the ECU was not correctly installed
>>>and there was lots of corrosion. He cleaned it out (with the proper
>>>cleaner and a soft brass wire brush) and reseated it...no help.
>>>
>>>The wiring is jumpered around the connector for now from the ECU side of
>>>the connector to the injector (with the right gauge wire, soldered,
>>>insulated with heat shrink, taped to the original harness), the connector
>>>to the injector itself is now new, and it still fails.
>>>
>>>We also swapped injectors and the problem does not move with the
>>>injector. So the components remaining are the wiring from the ECU to the
>>>ECU side of the big round plug and the ECU. Only thing left to do is
>>>measure the resistance from the plug to the ECU, but it's looking more
>>>and more like it must be the ECU...drat.
>>>
>>>I should also mention that #1 injector does fire...at idle. But given
>>>any throttle or when the car is driven the engine is clearly not running
>>>on all four cylinders and the only code is 4411.
>>>
>>>JRE
>>
>>

See below....

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:

> Wouldn't the 4411 code be electrical?
> hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs to another injector? Put #1
> plug on #2 injector to see if the codes change.
> I wonder if a bad cam sensor (distributor) could throw a 4411 code.
> Yep that vag-com scanner should help! Hopefully one with the tool will
> assist you! ;-)
>
> Make me happy and clean the grounds at the engine and the body! ;-)

My son did this, and I did it again yesterday. The engine to negative
post resistance was 0.2 ohms before and after.

>
> More replies inside.

Likewise...

>
> "JRE" > wrote in message
> ...
>
<snip>
>>dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
>>
<snip>
>>...that the ECU might need to be reset under some circumstances. Any clue
>>whether that's true after a MAF replacement?
>
>
> wouldn't be a bad idea!
> New MAF? Correct one?

Now *that's* something we need to check on.

>
<snip>
>>
>>Dirt in the rail would clog the injector, right? So swapping injectors
>>should move the problem. It does not.
>
>
> Unless for some reason the rail is clogged............very remote
> possibility though and I don't see how it could get clogged!

Me, either.

>>>I have replaced fuel pressure regulators in the 1988-1992 Jettas.
>>
>>Fuel pressure is 38psi at idle and under load. The Haynes manual says it
>>should be 36. My guess is that 2 PSI high is either gauge error or
>>insignificant.
>
>
> What if the FPR is leaking pass it's diaphram and into the vacuum hose?
> That "unmetered" fuel might be directed into #1 cylinder
>

Interesting idea, but the vacuum hose is dry. (I had it off to replace
the spark plug wires.)

>
>>>I have 'heard' about vacuum leaks killing 1-2 cylinders.
>>
>>Bleeding propane around all the gaskets has no effect on engine RPM.
>
>
> Good but if the engine is running rich due to a fault FPR then the propane
> might not do anything. Now a rich mixture along with a vacuum leak might
> increase rpms, but might be adjusted by the ECM and the throttle body.

But if there is a fault in the FPR I would see it on the gauge. The FP
is steady at between 37 and 39 PSI.


>>>I have seen spark plug wires that short out at different times.
>>
>>They're new.
>
>
> I still would not ASSuME! ;-)

I'd hear (and likely see) the HV "snap" if they were shorting,
particularly since they are not in the loom yet. If one were open, its
cylinder would be completely dead and the engine would be very rough at
idle. It's not.

<snip>
>
>
> hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs? Put #1 plug on #2 injector
> to see if the codes change.
>

Without rewiring them, you mean? Why? Aren't the injectors timed?

<snip>
>
>
> Now how good is that Original ign coil?
> Maybe there are 2 problems!

Once I decided that 441x might be a general misfire code, I checked. It
throws a 1" spark without any problem at all.

<snip>

OK more replies inside! <g>

----- Original Message -----
From: "JRE" >

snip

>> wouldn't be a bad idea!
>> New MAF? Correct one?
>
> Now *that's* something we need to check on.

snip

>> What if the FPR is leaking pass it's diaphram and into the vacuum hose?
>> That "unmetered" fuel might be directed into #1 cylinder
>>
>
> Interesting idea, but the vacuum hose is dry. (I had it off to replace
> the spark plug wires.)

I have seen some with a dry looking vacuum hose. I usually watch the FPR
with the hose off and the engine running. Sometimes I see a burp of fuel
coming out and then it may stop leaking. USUALLY the clue for me is an
engine idle change from down to back up again.

snip

>
> But if there is a fault in the FPR I would see it on the gauge. The FP is
> steady at between 37 and 39 PSI.

That is good, but the burp could still be there. This is probably not your
problem though, but I guess I would still check it along with checking the
pressure increase with no vacuum at the FPR. ;-)

snip

>> hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs? Put #1 plug on #2
>> injector to see if the codes change.
>>
>
> Without rewiring them, you mean? Why? Aren't the injectors timed?
>

Yes they should be timed and do this switch of the plugs without rewiring
them.
Just trying to find out if the same code will be thrown. The engine won't
run correctly but if the same code is thrown I would look at the ECM and
Wiring much closer.
I know you did that many times and you are about to pull your hair out. :-)

snip

I guess if I was in your shoes I would purchase an imitation ross-tech.com
scanner from ebay for under $30
http://search.ebay.com/search/search...atitle=vag-com
and try it out with the limited software to make sure it worked with your
'95 Jetta. Then if it did work/connect, buy the software for $99 to allow
you full use of it, but it will lock that software to that computer.
BTW I think someone has a real one on ebay too which should allow you to use
it on any computer that has the software! Of course remember that you can
sell it after you finish using it or give it to the new owner of the Jetta!
8^)
If you don't have a laptop then try to purchase one that you can extend with
some CAT5 cable. Please note that some are USB and some are Serial. I
prefer Serial connections and have 2 of the ross-tech scanners.

Here is one imitation scanner that would be under $17 including shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VAG-C...91366944QQrdZ1

One day I may buy an imitation scanner to see how it performs since I
already have the software! ;-)
I am looking at one like this one that claims KKL but I would need a much
longer Serial extension cable for it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBD-K...90559281QQrdZ1

I come up with crazy ideas from time to time. lol
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

Today, I continued to go "back to basics" assuming that the 4411 code
means "#1 misfire" and not really "short or open #1 injector circuit" as
Chilton's claims.

Compression was high and even (whew!) across the board. Spark plugs and
wires (due anyway) were no help. Cap and rotor are nearly new. No
evidence of arcing within but I cleaned the cap anyway.

On to check the engine timing, and surprise! It was off. At TDC, the
OT mark was two teeth off. Pulled the lower timing cover and found the
intermediate shaft timing off the same amount. Re-timed the engine and
re-fired. MIL still on but it sounded so much happier that we decided
to take a test drive. MIL became intermittent as the ECU re-mapped and
then went out for good. Driveability improved by the minute as the ECU
re-mapped more. In 100-200 miles, it will probably be back to normal.

My theory is that the mistimed Hall sensor led the ECU to detect a
misfire, and caused the 4411. (That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)
This is not my first experience with an error in a service manual, but
at least *this* time it wasn't incorrectly low head bolt torque.

We'll keep an eye on the engine timing and see what happens. There is
nothing to indicate that it might have jumped; it's probably been
mistimed for months, waiting for the "right" combination of temperature
and air density to occur.

Also, just for completeness' sake...see below.

JRE

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:

> OK more replies inside! <g>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JRE" >
>
> snip
>
>
>>>wouldn't be a bad idea!
>>>New MAF? Correct one?
>>
>>Now *that's* something we need to check on.
>
>
> snip
>
>
>>>What if the FPR is leaking pass it's diaphram and into the vacuum hose?
>>>That "unmetered" fuel might be directed into #1 cylinder
>>>
>>
>>Interesting idea, but the vacuum hose is dry. (I had it off to replace
>>the spark plug wires.)
>
>
> I have seen some with a dry looking vacuum hose. I usually watch the FPR
> with the hose off and the engine running. Sometimes I see a burp of fuel
> coming out and then it may stop leaking. USUALLY the clue for me is an
> engine idle change from down to back up again.

The diaphram is OK. Honest! (We do have a spare FPR, BTW, but did not
try it.)

>
> snip
>
>
>>But if there is a fault in the FPR I would see it on the gauge. The FP is
>>steady at between 37 and 39 PSI.
>
>
> That is good, but the burp could still be there. This is probably not your
> problem though, but I guess I would still check it along with checking the
> pressure increase with no vacuum at the FPR. ;-)

I'll defer to someone with more VW experience than I have, but I must
say that I find it unlikely that I'd see good regulation from a bad FPR.
In my experience they have been either good or bad.

>
> snip
>
>
>>>hmmm did you try switching the injector plugs? Put #1 plug on #2
>>>injector to see if the codes change.
>>>
>>
>>Without rewiring them, you mean? Why? Aren't the injectors timed?
>>
>
>
> Yes they should be timed and do this switch of the plugs without rewiring
> them.
> Just trying to find out if the same code will be thrown. The engine won't
> run correctly but if the same code is thrown I would look at the ECM and
> Wiring much closer.
> I know you did that many times and you are about to pull your hair out. :-)
>

I didn't do this. Still don't see the point. I did everything except
hook up an oscilloscope (I own two) to prove the wiring wasn't the
problem. As it turned out, it wasn't.

> snip
>
> I guess if I was in your shoes I would purchase an imitation ross-tech.com
> scanner from ebay for under $30
> http://search.ebay.com/search/search...atitle=vag-com
> and try it out with the limited software to make sure it worked with your
> '95 Jetta. Then if it did work/connect, buy the software for $99 to allow
> you full use of it, but it will lock that software to that computer.
> BTW I think someone has a real one on ebay too which should allow you to use
> it on any computer that has the software! Of course remember that you can
> sell it after you finish using it or give it to the new owner of the Jetta!
> 8^)

I'll pass on this for now. But I'll keep it in mind.

<snip>

Then I will say that the code was really for the camshaft sensor. hmmm
could that code be the same for both the cam sensor and the #1 injector? I
would have thought the cam sensor code would have been 2113 or 2114.
I really prefer a scanner over blink codes. :-)

Big Congrats to you JRE!!!
I am glad you stuck with it. ;-)
I'll try to retain this info for future reference so thanks for the
followup.
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

"JRE" > wrote in message
...
> Today, I continued to go "back to basics" assuming that the 4411 code
> means "#1 misfire" and not really "short or open #1 injector circuit" as
> Chilton's claims.
>
> Compression was high and even (whew!) across the board. Spark plugs and
> wires (due anyway) were no help. Cap and rotor are nearly new. No
> evidence of arcing within but I cleaned the cap anyway.
>
> On to check the engine timing, and surprise! It was off. At TDC, the OT
> mark was two teeth off. Pulled the lower timing cover and found the
> intermediate shaft timing off the same amount. Re-timed the engine and
> re-fired. MIL still on but it sounded so much happier that we decided to
> take a test drive. MIL became intermittent as the ECU re-mapped and then
> went out for good. Driveability improved by the minute as the ECU
> re-mapped more. In 100-200 miles, it will probably be back to normal.
>
> My theory is that the mistimed Hall sensor led the ECU to detect a
> misfire, and caused the 4411. (That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)
> This is not my first experience with an error in a service manual, but at
> least *this* time it wasn't incorrectly low head bolt torque.
>
> We'll keep an eye on the engine timing and see what happens. There is
> nothing to indicate that it might have jumped; it's probably been mistimed
> for months, waiting for the "right" combination of temperature and air
> density to occur.
>
> Also, just for completeness' sake...see below.
>
> JRE