U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents

Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 08/11/2010 06:05 PM, hls wrote:
>>
>> "Clive" > wrote in message
>>> What about all the vehicles with automatic transmissions that would
>>> drop into reverse if left unattended and were never repaired because
>>> it would bankrupt the company?
>>> --
>>> Clive
>>
>> We in fact dont know what happened. I dont remember specifically what
>> cars dropped into reverse.. Could you
>> refresh my memory?
>
> Think it was Fords, back in the 70's... way long ago. only heard about
> it, cars were beaters before I was old enough to notice.


That would be the column auto shift cars
the ones where people would jam them into park without their foot on the
brake pedal or the vehicle was still moving and the gearbox wouldn't
properly engage park
also due to laziness wouldn't pull the lever forward far enough so that
the locking tag would wear out or break, in this case ther vehicle could
then be shifted between park, reverse, neutral and drive without pulling
the lever back(towards the steering wheel)

I have seen this plenty of times on older 60s and 70s cars and not just
fords either


Kev

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> hls > wrote:
>>
>>"Clive" > wrote in message
>>> What about all the vehicles with automatic transmissions that would
>>> drop into reverse if left unattended and were never repaired because
>>> it would bankrupt the company?
>>
>>We in fact dont know what happened.
>>I dont remember specifically what cars dropped into reverse.. Could
>>you refresh my memory?
>
> Dunno, but I had a Datsun 710 that dropped into reverse on the highway
> while the prindle was in drive. The end result was very exciting...
> it is amazing how much mechanical stuff is inside a transmission when
> all of a sudden it isn't inside any longer.

The problem would be all the cars behind you annoyed at all the caltrops
you dropped I imagine.<g>

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

Clive > wrote in
:

> In message >, JoeSpareBedroom
> > writes
>>"But Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons acknowledged this evening that the
>>company's black boxes have limited capability because they typically
>>produce data only when the airbag is activated.
> As the airbag is activated on impact, are you trying to tell the world
> that everyone takes their foot off of the brake the moment they know
> they're going to crash? I KNOW I wouldn't.


Last minute suicide pact <g>

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

"C. E. White" > wrote in
:

> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration is
> needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>
> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles in
> at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S.
> auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>
> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in reviewing
> the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency said today in
> a report to lawmakers.

Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human error
first because that's *always* the most common cause. In planes it's
almost impossible to find other ones these days.

I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled this
*extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and said "wait
for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see at least one
falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO. It may even help
their racing program. God knows they need to get the boardroom away from it.

"Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.

On another note, it's still clear that the web has a long way to go
before it comes close to usenet's credibility - judging by the replies
to that article at least.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

chuckcar wrote:
> "C. E. White" > wrote in
> :
>
>> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
>> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration is
>> needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
>> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>>
>> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles in
>> at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S.
>> auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>>
>> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
>> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in reviewing
>> the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency said today in
>> a report to lawmakers.
>
> Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human error
> first because that's *always* the most common cause. In planes it's
> almost impossible to find other ones these days.
>
> I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled this
> *extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and said "wait
> for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see at least one
> falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO. It may even help
> their racing program. God knows they need to get the boardroom away from it.
>
> "Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.

By your suggestion above, the statement is appropriate and correct. The
investigation is not over.

Jeff

> On another note, it's still clear that the web has a long way to go
> before it comes close to usenet's credibility - judging by the replies
> to that article at least.
>

dr_jeff > wrote in
:

> chuckcar wrote:
>> "C. E. White" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
>>> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration is
>>> needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
>>> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles
>>> in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S.
>>> auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>>>
>>> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
>>> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in
>>> reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency
>>> said today in a report to lawmakers.
>>
>> Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human
>> error first because that's *always* the most common cause. In planes
>> it's almost impossible to find other ones these days.
>>
>> I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled
>> this *extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and said
>> "wait for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see at
>> least one falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO. It
>> may even help their racing program. God knows they need to get the
>> boardroom away from it.
>>
>> "Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.
>
> By your suggestion above, the statement is appropriate and correct.
> The investigation is not over.
>
Completely the opposite of what I was saying. The lawyer is stating that
Toyota *was* at fault at one time and have had some minor repair to
their reputation that hasn't removed the blame. Something that certainly
the facts are showing *not* to be the case.

On 8/12/2010 4:23 PM, APLer wrote:
> > wrote in
> :
>
>> chuckcar wrote:
>>> "C. E. > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
>>>> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration is
>>>> needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
>>>> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>>>>
>>>> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles
>>>> in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S.
>>>> auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>>>>
>>>> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
>>>> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in
>>>> reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency
>>>> said today in a report to lawmakers.
>>>
>>> Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human
>>> error first because that's *always* the most common cause. In planes
>>> it's almost impossible to find other ones these days.
>>>
>>> I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled
>>> this *extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and said
>>> "wait for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see at
>>> least one falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO. It
>>> may even help their racing program. God knows they need to get the
>>> boardroom away from it.
>>>
>>> "Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.
>>
>> By your suggestion above, the statement is appropriate and correct.
>> The investigation is not over.
>>
> Completely the opposite of what I was saying. The lawyer is stating that
> Toyota *was* at fault at one time and have had some minor repair to
> their reputation that hasn't removed the blame. Something that certainly
> the facts are showing *not* to be the case.
>

We won't learn a thing from this media frenzy. This crap will be going
on even with electric cars. The guys that know the facts will be ignored
and guys that don't will continue to believe and preach that unconnected
systems can suffer spontaneous and complete failures at the same time
and not leave a trace. I can't wait for the next time it happens. :-)

dsi1 > wrote in
:

> On 8/12/2010 4:23 PM, APLer wrote:
>> > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> chuckcar wrote:
>>>> "C. E. > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
>>>>> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration
>>>>> is needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
>>>>> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>>>>>
>>>>> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles
>>>>> in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration,
>>>>> U.S. auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>>>>>
>>>>> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
>>>>> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in
>>>>> reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency
>>>>> said today in a report to lawmakers.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human
>>>> error first because that's *always* the most common cause. In
>>>> planes it's almost impossible to find other ones these days.
>>>>
>>>> I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled
>>>> this *extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and
>>>> said "wait for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see
>>>> at least one falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO.
>>>> It may even help their racing program. God knows they need to get
>>>> the boardroom away from it.
>>>>
>>>> "Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.
>>>
>>> By your suggestion above, the statement is appropriate and correct.
>>> The investigation is not over.
>>>
>> Completely the opposite of what I was saying. The lawyer is stating
>> that Toyota *was* at fault at one time and have had some minor repair
>> to their reputation that hasn't removed the blame. Something that
>> certainly the facts are showing *not* to be the case.
>>
>
> We won't learn a thing from this media frenzy. This crap will be going
> on even with electric cars. The guys that know the facts will be
> ignored and guys that don't will continue to believe and preach that
> unconnected systems can suffer spontaneous and complete failures at
> the same time and not leave a trace. I can't wait for the next time it
> happens. :-)
>
Again my apologies. I simply *must* stop posting and reading multiple
groups at the same time.

It comes down to one thing IMHO: provincial nationalistic attitudes
resident within backwards thinking (if that adjective can be even used)
politicians. Japan has the exact same attitude towards imports, in fact
in a more severe form.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

On 8/12/2010 5:28 PM, chuckcar wrote:
> > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 8/12/2010 4:23 PM, APLer wrote:
>>> > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> chuckcar wrote:
>>>>> "C. E. > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents
>>>>>> Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration
>>>>>> is needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET
>>>>>> UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles
>>>>>> in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration,
>>>>>> U.S. auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no
>>>>>> evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in
>>>>>> reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency
>>>>>> said today in a report to lawmakers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human
>>>>> error first because that's *always* the most common cause. In
>>>>> planes it's almost impossible to find other ones these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled
>>>>> this *extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and
>>>>> said "wait for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see
>>>>> at least one falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO.
>>>>> It may even help their racing program. God knows they need to get
>>>>> the boardroom away from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.
>>>>
>>>> By your suggestion above, the statement is appropriate and correct.
>>>> The investigation is not over.
>>>>
>>> Completely the opposite of what I was saying. The lawyer is stating
>>> that Toyota *was* at fault at one time and have had some minor repair
>>> to their reputation that hasn't removed the blame. Something that
>>> certainly the facts are showing *not* to be the case.
>>>
>>
>> We won't learn a thing from this media frenzy. This crap will be going
>> on even with electric cars. The guys that know the facts will be
>> ignored and guys that don't will continue to believe and preach that
>> unconnected systems can suffer spontaneous and complete failures at
>> the same time and not leave a trace. I can't wait for the next time it
>> happens. :-)
>>
> Again my apologies. I simply *must* stop posting and reading multiple
> groups at the same time.
>
> It comes down to one thing IMHO: provincial nationalistic attitudes
> resident within backwards thinking (if that adjective can be even used)
> politicians. Japan has the exact same attitude towards imports, in fact
> in a more severe form.
>

You could be right. It could also be racist attitudes, or a mistrust of
automotive technology that one does not understand, or perhaps it's
disinformation put out by Toyota's competitors or disgruntled Toyota
employees. Maybe they're just trolling. Chose your poison.

"MM" > wrote in message ...
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 08/10/2010 08:44 PM, C. E. White wrote:
>>
>> <snip masquerade>
>>
>> you're a detroit shill "farmer" ed. trying to "blend in" by posting
>> something we already knew doesn't work.
>>
>>
>
> You keep accusing him of that but do you have any evidence that it's true?

He doesn't, but he is willing to make stuff up...

Ed