Ford, GM have discussed merger, alliance

9/18/06

(Reuters) Senior executives at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. have discussed a merger or alliance, industry newspaper Automotive News reported on Monday.

Citing several sources familiar with the talks, the paper said it was not clear whether the negotiations will bear fruit.

As of now, the two companies, both struggling with shrinking market shares while restructuring operations, are not holding talks, and one source said there is a slim chance that anything will come of the situation, Automotive News said.

GM and Ford declined to confirm any talks.

"As we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Brian Akre said. "As a policy, we do not confirm or comment publicly on those private discussions, which in many cases never lead anywhere."

Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt said the automaker does not comment on speculation.

On Friday, Ford said it would slash $5 billion in costs and one-third of its work force as it warned its auto business would not make a profit in North America for another three years. It also suspended its dividend and pledged to revamp a vehicle line-up seen as weak by analysts.

However, the No. 2 U.S. automaker ruled out an immediate sale of its Jaguar brand, disappointing investors who wanted Ford to press ahead with asset sales to raise cash, sending shares to their biggest single-day percentage decline in almost four years.

Earlier this month, Ford named Alan Mulally, a former Boeing Co. executive, as chief executive, ending the troubled five-year stint of Bill Ford Jr. as the company's operational head.

GM is in the midst of its own restructuring as it tries to recover from a $10.6 billion loss in 2005.

Turnaround efforts at the world's largest automaker have gained traction this year as 34,400 workers -- about a third of its work force -- have accepted early retirement and buyout offers. GM is also closing 12 plants.

Still, CEO Rick Wagoner is under pressure to show further improvement as GM studies a possible tie-up with Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Renault SA in which Nissan and Renault could buy up to a 20 percent stake in GM.

That deal, urged by GM's largest individual shareholder, billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian, has been widely viewed as a means of prodding Wagoner to speed up the company's turnaround efforts.

Last year, GM and Ford agreed to jointly develop a new 6-speed transmission, which is in production in plants at both companies.

Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 @ http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt

"Grover C. McCoury III" > wrote:

> 9/18/06
>
> (Reuters) Senior executives at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co.
> have discussed a merger or alliance, industry newspaper Automotive
> News reported on Monday.
>
> Citing several sources familiar with the talks, the paper said it was
> not clear whether the negotiations will bear fruit.
>
> As of now, the two companies, both struggling with shrinking market
> shares while restructuring operations, are not holding talks, and one
> source said there is a slim chance that anything will come of the
> situation, Automotive News said.
>
> GM and Ford declined to confirm any talks.
>
> "As we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual
> interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Brian Akre said. "As a
> policy, we do not confirm or comment publicly on those private
> discussions, which in many cases never lead anywhere."
>
> Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt said the automaker does not comment on
> speculation.
>
> On Friday, Ford said it would slash $5 billion in costs and one-third
> of its work force as it warned its auto business would not make a
> profit in North America for another three years. It also suspended its
> dividend and pledged to revamp a vehicle line-up seen as weak by
> analysts.
>
> However, the No. 2 U.S. automaker ruled out an immediate sale of its
> Jaguar brand, disappointing investors who wanted Ford to press ahead
> with asset sales to raise cash, sending shares to their biggest
> single-day percentage decline in almost four years.
>
> Earlier this month, Ford named Alan Mulally, a former Boeing Co.
> executive, as chief executive, ending the troubled five-year stint of
> Bill Ford Jr. as the company's operational head.
>
> GM is in the midst of its own restructuring as it tries to recover
> from a $10.6 billion loss in 2005.
>
> Turnaround efforts at the world's largest automaker have gained
> traction this year as 34,400 workers -- about a third of its work
> force -- have accepted early retirement and buyout offers. GM is also
> closing 12 plants.
>
> Still, CEO Rick Wagoner is under pressure to show further improvement
> as GM studies a possible tie-up with Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Renault
> SA in which Nissan and Renault could buy up to a 20 percent stake in
> GM.
>
> That deal, urged by GM's largest individual shareholder, billionaire
> investor Kirk Kerkorian, has been widely viewed as a means of prodding
> Wagoner to speed up the company's turnaround efforts.
>
> Last year, GM and Ford agreed to jointly develop a new 6-speed
> transmission, which is in production in plants at both companies.
>
> Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 @
> http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt
>

Grover.. long time, no see.

But you should know better than post in HTML... or did you forget to set
your OE 6 params to text only for Newsgroups?


I can see an alliance between GM and Ford, but I have to look and raise
an eyebrow over doing so with a company that would partner with
Renault/Peugeot as the result of that is two companies with quality-image
problems. Same to some extent with Nissan... for two decades we been
hearing that Nissan is NOW building better cars.. but after ten years,
the image still doesnt hold.



--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

i agree. I just cannot see this merger resulting in a better quality
product anytime soon. maybe it would be good at helping the 2 entities
shave payroll and benefits obligations. that could help them in the
long term. regardless, both companies are 10 years away from producing
a product that can compete with Toyota's cars. dont get me wrong, i
like the mustang and the F150, but when you compare fleets... IMO there
isnt much to compare. i wish them both luck. Harry in Montreal

had
93 5.0 LX
96 GT
98 Z28
01 GT conv.

now
03 rav, wife and dog.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:07:49 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> wrote:

>I can see an alliance between GM and Ford, but I have to look and raise
>an eyebrow over doing so with a company that would partner with
>Renault/Peugeot as the result of that is two companies with quality-image
>problems. Same to some extent with Nissan... for two decades we been
>hearing that Nissan is NOW building better cars.. but after ten years,
>the image still doesnt hold.

I cannot see it happening as if it does it is a sign of the end coming
for Detriot as we know it and even auto making up there completely.
Detriot has no one to blame for market sure problems except
themselves.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

In article .com>, Harry in Montreal wrote:
> I just cannot see this merger resulting in a better quality
> product anytime soon.

A Ford and GM merger may actually create a black hole of suckage that no
car model can escape.

I don't think any good product could get out the door with two sets of
executives and management preventing it.

Brent P wrote:
> In article .com>, Harry in Montreal wrote:
> > I just cannot see this merger resulting in a better quality
> > product anytime soon.
>
> A Ford and GM merger may actually create a black hole of suckage that no
> car model can escape.
>
> I don't think any good product could get out the door with two sets of
> executives and management preventing it.

Brent - does this mean we agree on something? after many minutes of
trying to defend CR, i gave up. i am just glad that we both agree these
companies are screwed.
Harry in montreal

I dont claim to know anything about business, but how does merging 2 failing companys make 1 good one?


"Grover C. McCoury III" > wrote in message ...
9/18/06

(Reuters) Senior executives at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. have discussed a merger or alliance, industry newspaper Automotive News reported on Monday.

Citing several sources familiar with the talks, the paper said it was not clear whether the negotiations will bear fruit.

As of now, the two companies, both struggling with shrinking market shares while restructuring operations, are not holding talks, and one source said there is a slim chance that anything will come of the situation, Automotive News said.

GM and Ford declined to confirm any talks.

"As we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Brian Akre said. "As a policy, we do not confirm or comment publicly on those private discussions, which in many cases never lead anywhere."

Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt said the automaker does not comment on speculation.

On Friday, Ford said it would slash $5 billion in costs and one-third of its work force as it warned its auto business would not make a profit in North America for another three years. It also suspended its dividend and pledged to revamp a vehicle line-up seen as weak by analysts.

However, the No. 2 U.S. automaker ruled out an immediate sale of its Jaguar brand, disappointing investors who wanted Ford to press ahead with asset sales to raise cash, sending shares to their biggest single-day percentage decline in almost four years.

Earlier this month, Ford named Alan Mulally, a former Boeing Co. executive, as chief executive, ending the troubled five-year stint of Bill Ford Jr. as the company's operational head.

GM is in the midst of its own restructuring as it tries to recover from a $10.6 billion loss in 2005.

Turnaround efforts at the world's largest automaker have gained traction this year as 34,400 workers -- about a third of its work force -- have accepted early retirement and buyout offers. GM is also closing 12 plants.

Still, CEO Rick Wagoner is under pressure to show further improvement as GM studies a possible tie-up with Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Renault SA in which Nissan and Renault could buy up to a 20 percent stake in GM.

That deal, urged by GM's largest individual shareholder, billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian, has been widely viewed as a means of prodding Wagoner to speed up the company's turnaround efforts.

Last year, GM and Ford agreed to jointly develop a new 6-speed transmission, which is in production in plants at both companies.

Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 @ http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt

"SnoMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:07:49 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> > wrote:
>
> >I can see an alliance between GM and Ford, but I have to look and raise
> >an eyebrow over doing so with a company that would partner with
> >Renault/Peugeot as the result of that is two companies with quality-image
> >problems. Same to some extent with Nissan... for two decades we been
> >hearing that Nissan is NOW building better cars.. but after ten years,
> >the image still doesnt hold.

reanult is like a corporate raider, it sucks the life out of what ever it
touchs and then
dumps whats left, Mack Trucks come to mind real fast, they ran it into the
ground, and then sold what was left to Volvo. Macks original problem was
they built to damn good a truck, they lasted too long, I see '69 to '79 Mack
R-models on the road in vast numbers every day.
I still see a good number of B series Macks making a living, that pretty
damn good considering the B series was discontinued in 1966

>
> I cannot see it happening as if it does it is a sign of the end coming
> for Detriot as we know it and even auto making up there completely.
> Detriot has no one to blame for market sure problems except
> themselves.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Bull****, sorry sno but I don't buy the "its entirely their fault they are
where they are" claims.
The American public has been feed a steady line of how great the japs are,
and how lousy the American iron is, and they have swallowed that line hook,
sinker, bobber, line, rod, and reel right up to the caster's shoulder. What
amazes me is how Ford can have a problem with engine fires and its on every
news show and paper front page, but Toyota can have the same issue and its
all very hush hush. Toyota V-6 has an engine design problem , but the owner
is being blamed for improper service even when he's had all the service done
at the toyota dealership. Honda has been having problems with rear lower
control arm failures for over five years now across their entire car line,
but it doesn't make the news. Toyota has been having problems with rear hub
bearings failing, but it doesn't make the news, Mitsubishi cant make a V-6
that doesn't burn oil after 50,000 miles, but people keep buying them.
Mitsubishi's CEO had to step down because the Japanese government was going
after him for covering up safety defects , like their medium duty trucks
front axles snapping the spindle off (Think of that every time you see a
FUSO in the rear view mirror) I did some digging a while back while I still
had access to recalls and service bulletins. In 2004 the Toyota Camry had
more service bulletins and recalls than the Ford Focus.

Look at designs, GMs Avalanche and Fords Sport Trac get hammered for being
ugly as sin( and rightly so IMO), and as useful as a bailing bucket with a
hole in it on a sinking boat, yet Honda Ridgeline gets rave reviews for
design and usefulness. GM ie Buick came out with the Aztec and it got
ripped, but Toyota and Honda both copied the look and its god the greatest
thing since sliced bread. And those refrigerator boxes on wheels the Honda
Element and its butt ugly step sister the Scoin xB from Toyota?

Whitelightning

"SnoMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:07:49 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> > wrote:
>
>>I can see an alliance between GM and Ford, but I have to look and raise
>>an eyebrow over doing so with a company that would partner with
>>Renault/Peugeot as the result of that is two companies with quality-image
>>problems. Same to some extent with Nissan... for two decades we been
>>hearing that Nissan is NOW building better cars.. but after ten years,
>>the image still doesnt hold.
>
> I cannot see it happening as if it does it is a sign of the end coming
> for Detriot as we know it and even auto making up there completely.

We are already seeing Detroit as we know it. Ford is getting rid of as many
workers as they can.

GM already did the same thing. Diamler-Chrysler is owned by a German
company.

All three are in deep doo-doo.

The people who make parts for GM, D-C and Ford are also in deep poop.

Automaking had also changed drastically. The foreign brands already employ
hundreds of thousands of people directly and indirectly.

With the price of gas so high, the big 2 + D-C also have major problems,
because so many of their vehicles are trucks and their cars don't make much
money.

Detroit as we know it had changed already and will change again.

Jeff

> Detriot has no one to blame for market sure problems except
> themselves.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

I can't agree with you more Whitelightning! I used to be a mech for toys,
And I've been saying all along that they are no better than domestics.
People who own them are brainwashed into thinking they are better. It really
****es me off when someone with no clue about cars tells me that their jap
**** never has problems, or they've gone certain amount of kicks with no
mechanical problems..............well guess what.............my domestic ( I
own two of them, both fords ) has gone many clicks without mechanical
problems also. And your right.....tsb's and recalls for the most part are
kept quit by the japs for some reason. I've done lots and lots of engine
repairs on new jap scraps, usually bad maintenance by the owners. Not to
mention the tsbs and recalls that are kept really silent. To be fair, I've
done many domestics also, usually the owners neglect of maintenance, but the
domestics out numbered the japo's 10 - 1, well may be not now but it used
to be that way.
"Whitelightning" > wrote in message
news:3yDPg.4506$wU4.3834@trnddc06...
>
> "SnoMan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:07:49 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >I can see an alliance between GM and Ford, but I have to look and raise
> > >an eyebrow over doing so with a company that would partner with
> > >Renault/Peugeot as the result of that is two companies with
quality-image
> > >problems. Same to some extent with Nissan... for two decades we been
> > >hearing that Nissan is NOW building better cars.. but after ten years,
> > >the image still doesnt hold.
>
> reanult is like a corporate raider, it sucks the life out of what ever it
> touchs and then
> dumps whats left, Mack Trucks come to mind real fast, they ran it into the
> ground, and then sold what was left to Volvo. Macks original problem was
> they built to damn good a truck, they lasted too long, I see '69 to '79
Mack
> R-models on the road in vast numbers every day.
> I still see a good number of B series Macks making a living, that pretty
> damn good considering the B series was discontinued in 1966
>
> >
> > I cannot see it happening as if it does it is a sign of the end coming
> > for Detriot as we know it and even auto making up there completely.
> > Detriot has no one to blame for market sure problems except
> > themselves.
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com
>
> Bull****, sorry sno but I don't buy the "its entirely their fault they are
> where they are" claims.
> The American public has been feed a steady line of how great the japs are,
> and how lousy the American iron is, and they have swallowed that line
hook,
> sinker, bobber, line, rod, and reel right up to the caster's shoulder.
What
> amazes me is how Ford can have a problem with engine fires and its on
every
> news show and paper front page, but Toyota can have the same issue and its
> all very hush hush. Toyota V-6 has an engine design problem , but the
owner
> is being blamed for improper service even when he's had all the service
done
> at the toyota dealership. Honda has been having problems with rear lower
> control arm failures for over five years now across their entire car line,
> but it doesn't make the news. Toyota has been having problems with rear
hub
> bearings failing, but it doesn't make the news, Mitsubishi cant make a
V-6
> that doesn't burn oil after 50,000 miles, but people keep buying them.
> Mitsubishi's CEO had to step down because the Japanese government was
going
> after him for covering up safety defects , like their medium duty trucks
> front axles snapping the spindle off (Think of that every time you see a
> FUSO in the rear view mirror) I did some digging a while back while I
still
> had access to recalls and service bulletins. In 2004 the Toyota Camry had
> more service bulletins and recalls than the Ford Focus.
>
> Look at designs, GMs Avalanche and Fords Sport Trac get hammered for
being
> ugly as sin( and rightly so IMO), and as useful as a bailing bucket with a
> hole in it on a sinking boat, yet Honda Ridgeline gets rave reviews for
> design and usefulness. GM ie Buick came out with the Aztec and it got
> ripped, but Toyota and Honda both copied the look and its god the greatest
> thing since sliced bread. And those refrigerator boxes on wheels the
Honda
> Element and its butt ugly step sister the Scoin xB from Toyota?
>
> Whitelightning
>
>