When is the US going to get "real" Land Rovers?

The hummer is sold but it is classified by the authorities as a truck (due
to weight mainly) and therefore does not have to comply to passenger car
standards.

As for the US military, it does use Land Rovers. IIRC US Marines and some
other special forces use them.

Take care
Pantelis (not living in the USA, just happens to know the above)


"Chris Phillipo" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >,
> /OMEGA says...
> >
> > |> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s?
> > |>
> > |> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies?
> > |>
> > |> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
> > |> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?
> > |>
> > |
> > |
> > |Because they do not meet their minimum crash and rollover standards.
> > |Apparently they are good enough for us in the UK :-(
> > |This will change with the new utility range which is only a year to
> > |eighteen months from launch. Yippee!
> >
> > Neither does the Hummer. Yet it is sold to the public.
> >
> > and, btw, US gas prices are now climbing over $2 per gallon, or
> > so my wife recently told me. It may even reach $3 by summer.
> >
> >
>
> Can I come down there and get in on those bargin prices?
> --
> ____________________
> Remove "X" from email address to reply.

On or around Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:52:21 GMT, R. David Steele
/OMEGA> enlightened us thusly:

>
>|> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
>|> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?
>|
>|A question that has been asked by many US servicemen as well. Despite
>|our troops in the Gulf being known as "The Borrowers" by the US Army,
>|when it comes to 4x4s the US tries to borrow Defenders on a regular
>|basis since the Defender seems far better suited to desert warfare than
>|the Hummer. (This according to some of my friends who are currently "out
>|there" in the Gulf states>)
>|
>|A better solution might be the new Discovery III, which apparently is a
>|much, much better off-roader than the Defender. I'm wondering, since one
>|option is to get a Disco III with a 4.4L Jaguar engine, how long it will
>|be before someone bolts on the supercharger from the Jag XJR/XKR to the
>|Disco?
>
>Any info on this??
>

give us a chance, the vehicle's not launched yet.

but in principle, if the engine's the same, it should be possible. It might
end up needing rather a lot of expensive bits to make it fit.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

On or around Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:52:21 GMT, R. David Steele
/OMEGA> enlightened us thusly:

>
>|> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
>|> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?
>|
>|A question that has been asked by many US servicemen as well. Despite
>|our troops in the Gulf being known as "The Borrowers" by the US Army,
>|when it comes to 4x4s the US tries to borrow Defenders on a regular
>|basis since the Defender seems far better suited to desert warfare than
>|the Hummer. (This according to some of my friends who are currently "out
>|there" in the Gulf states>)
>|
>|A better solution might be the new Discovery III, which apparently is a
>|much, much better off-roader than the Defender. I'm wondering, since one
>|option is to get a Disco III with a 4.4L Jaguar engine, how long it will
>|be before someone bolts on the supercharger from the Jag XJR/XKR to the
>|Disco?
>
>Any info on this??
>

give us a chance, the vehicle's not launched yet.

but in principle, if the engine's the same, it should be possible. It might
end up needing rather a lot of expensive bits to make it fit.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:53:43 GMT, R. David Steele
/OMEGA> wrote:

>and, btw, US gas prices are now climbing over $2 per gallon, or
>so my wife recently told me.

With the GBP:USD rate as it is at the moment, petrol in the UK is
getting on for $2 per litre ...

--
QrizB

"On second thought, let's not go to Z'Ha'Dum. It is a silly place."

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:53:43 GMT, R. David Steele
/OMEGA> wrote:

>and, btw, US gas prices are now climbing over $2 per gallon, or
>so my wife recently told me.

With the GBP:USD rate as it is at the moment, petrol in the UK is
getting on for $2 per litre ...

--
QrizB

"On second thought, let's not go to Z'Ha'Dum. It is a silly place."

R. David Steele wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:47:46 GMT, "Exit" > wrote:
>
>> R. David Steele wrote:
>>> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s?
>>
>> The main problem is that LR and Ford's marketing dept have trouble
>> seeing where they wouls fit in to the US market. They would be
>> smaller than many US pick-ups but would be more expensive to buy.
>> They do not have the comfort and luxury of a typical US pick-up and
>> most of the market demands this. The sheer utility of a Defender and
>> the off-road ability would of course be superior to most pick-ups
>> but perhaps still not create a large enough market to make them
>> viable. LR continually say the no longer sell Defenders in the US
>> because of emmissions and passenger airbag issues - this of course
>> is nonsense as they sell thousands of Discoverys with exactly the
>> same engine and emmissions and fitting a passenger airbag is not
>> beyond the engineering wit of Lode Lane either. On the upside, the
>> US will definitely get the new Defender based on the T5 chassis in a
>> few years, so you'll have to hang on.
>
> Word was that we were going to get the TD6, not the TD5. And you
> forget that we have a midsize and compact size pickup market.
> All most all the big trucks have smaller brothers.
>
I realise that, but the market for a Defender in the US that is the same
size as the smaller pick-ups but costs more than the full-size ones is still
thought to be very limited by LR. Maybe they are wrong. The TD6 is also too
expensive to fit to Defenders and has already been dropped by Ford as it is
a BMW engine and they don't like buying outside. You should however get the
new Ford-Peugeot 2.7 V6 diesel jointly developed for the new Discovery which
has 200bhp and 300lb-ft of torque.

>>>
>>> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies?
>>>
>> The two biggest problems are that US diesel is very porr quality
>> with a high sulfur content and modern high-tech turbo-diesels won't
>> swallow it. The other problem is that petrol is cheap and there in
>> very little diesel-car culture in the states yet. It would however
>> be great to drive a 30mpg TD5 in the states so you can tell all the
>> tree-huggers who think you drive a gas-guzzling SUV to **** off!
>
> We have low sulfur diesel now. I have a VW Jette TDI back in the
> states. In fact the US environmental laws are far more harsh
> than anything in Europe.
>
They can't be that harsh judging by the the numbers of people I see over
there driving round in 6.8 litre V10 petrol motors! I think petrol will need
to get a lot more expensive than it is now before a real market for diesels
in anything but large pick-ups will develop properly, rather than just a
niche.

> BTW, Jeep is suppose to sell the Liberty with the Mercedes Common
> Rail Diesel but that not yet happened.
>
There are no technical reasons why you should not have a big choice of
diesels - it's the marketing departments of the motor manufacturers who
don't believe the market exists or you would already have them.

>>> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
>>> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?
>>
>> Politically, it is very difficult for the US to procure non-domestic
>> military kit. Even when the US military decided they must have
>> British Harriers, the top brass had to lie to congress and leap
>> through all sorts of hoops to make them look American before they
>> could purchase them. Same thing with the British Chobham armour used
>> on all abrams tanks. The US Rangers bought some special Defenders
>> called RSOV but I doubt they will ever figure very highly.
>
> LD is now part of Ford Motor Company, just as Jeep is now part of
> Mercedes.

Perception is reality I'm afraid. People see LR and think English. Maybe
when the POTUS swaps his limo for a Jag your army will get LR's, but I
wouldn't hold my breath!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

R. David Steele wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:47:46 GMT, "Exit" > wrote:
>
>> R. David Steele wrote:
>>> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s?
>>
>> The main problem is that LR and Ford's marketing dept have trouble
>> seeing where they wouls fit in to the US market. They would be
>> smaller than many US pick-ups but would be more expensive to buy.
>> They do not have the comfort and luxury of a typical US pick-up and
>> most of the market demands this. The sheer utility of a Defender and
>> the off-road ability would of course be superior to most pick-ups
>> but perhaps still not create a large enough market to make them
>> viable. LR continually say the no longer sell Defenders in the US
>> because of emmissions and passenger airbag issues - this of course
>> is nonsense as they sell thousands of Discoverys with exactly the
>> same engine and emmissions and fitting a passenger airbag is not
>> beyond the engineering wit of Lode Lane either. On the upside, the
>> US will definitely get the new Defender based on the T5 chassis in a
>> few years, so you'll have to hang on.
>
> Word was that we were going to get the TD6, not the TD5. And you
> forget that we have a midsize and compact size pickup market.
> All most all the big trucks have smaller brothers.
>
I realise that, but the market for a Defender in the US that is the same
size as the smaller pick-ups but costs more than the full-size ones is still
thought to be very limited by LR. Maybe they are wrong. The TD6 is also too
expensive to fit to Defenders and has already been dropped by Ford as it is
a BMW engine and they don't like buying outside. You should however get the
new Ford-Peugeot 2.7 V6 diesel jointly developed for the new Discovery which
has 200bhp and 300lb-ft of torque.

>>>
>>> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies?
>>>
>> The two biggest problems are that US diesel is very porr quality
>> with a high sulfur content and modern high-tech turbo-diesels won't
>> swallow it. The other problem is that petrol is cheap and there in
>> very little diesel-car culture in the states yet. It would however
>> be great to drive a 30mpg TD5 in the states so you can tell all the
>> tree-huggers who think you drive a gas-guzzling SUV to **** off!
>
> We have low sulfur diesel now. I have a VW Jette TDI back in the
> states. In fact the US environmental laws are far more harsh
> than anything in Europe.
>
They can't be that harsh judging by the the numbers of people I see over
there driving round in 6.8 litre V10 petrol motors! I think petrol will need
to get a lot more expensive than it is now before a real market for diesels
in anything but large pick-ups will develop properly, rather than just a
niche.

> BTW, Jeep is suppose to sell the Liberty with the Mercedes Common
> Rail Diesel but that not yet happened.
>
There are no technical reasons why you should not have a big choice of
diesels - it's the marketing departments of the motor manufacturers who
don't believe the market exists or you would already have them.

>>> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
>>> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?
>>
>> Politically, it is very difficult for the US to procure non-domestic
>> military kit. Even when the US military decided they must have
>> British Harriers, the top brass had to lie to congress and leap
>> through all sorts of hoops to make them look American before they
>> could purchase them. Same thing with the British Chobham armour used
>> on all abrams tanks. The US Rangers bought some special Defenders
>> called RSOV but I doubt they will ever figure very highly.
>
> LD is now part of Ford Motor Company, just as Jeep is now part of
> Mercedes.

Perception is reality I'm afraid. People see LR and think English. Maybe
when the POTUS swaps his limo for a Jag your army will get LR's, but I
wouldn't hold my breath!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

I think one of the deciding factors in the purchase of Defenders for SF use
is that they are air portable, and fit inside Chinook helicopters, this
allows SF teams to be flown behind enemy lines with transport. A lot better
than having to drive over hostile terrain to your patrol area.

I think one of the deciding factors in the purchase of Defenders for SF use
is that they are air portable, and fit inside Chinook helicopters, this
allows SF teams to be flown behind enemy lines with transport. A lot better
than having to drive over hostile terrain to your patrol area.

In article >,
/OMEGA says...
>
> |> As for the US military, it does use Land Rovers. IIRC US Marines and some
> |> other special forces use them.
> |
> |The Marines and others (Rangers?) ordered a small number of Defenders
> |after the first Gulf War, because the Defender turned out much more
> |suitable for the rapid desert raids than the Hummer. However IIRC the
> |Defenders were ordered without engines to be fitted with GMC 6.3L V8
> |diesels on arrival. I'm not sure how that would affect desert driving,
> |for the worse I would think it's a heavy engine.
>
> Question: how tough is the Defender in comparison to the Hummer?
> Will it take the abuse that US soldiers give?
>
> Frankly, in comparison to the cost of the Hummer, an armored LD
> would allow us to equip more troops with vehicles.
>

Half the abuse the Hummer is subjected to is due to it's own lumbering
weight.

> Nothing is going to stop an RPG-7 round this side of a tank.
> But a little armor might help protect from small arms fire and
> some land mines.

Not being the size of a battleship or as slow as one helps you not to
get shot in the first place.

> My concern is having a vehicle that does not cost us over
> $100,000 US.
>

Isn't that the cost of a chevy pickup with green paint in the US
military?

--
____________________
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