CV Joints--Problems / Symptoms

Vehicle: 2000 Pont. Grand AM 3.4

Just wanted to ask besides the common "clicking" noise in turns what
other systems would be present if you had bad CV joints?

The reason I'm asking is that the car has been aligned, spin balanced
and 2 new hubs/bearings put in and I'm getting a chugging noise and
vibration that's got me worried.

This used to happen at highway speeds above 60mph and was not solved
by the bearings, spin balance, or wheel alignment. I do not have
clicking in turns, but I'm suspecting the CV's. These are the
originals and the car has 201K miles. I don't know what else it could
be.

Since the tires are fairly new and are the same Eagle LS's the car
came with and this problem existed at high speed with the older tires
as well, and persists after the bearings, alignment, and spin balance
there doesn't seem to be anything else it could be.

Thanks for any replys.

MAB

MAB > wrote:
>Vehicle: 2000 Pont. Grand AM 3.4
>
>Just wanted to ask besides the common "clicking" noise in turns what
>other systems would be present if you had bad CV joints?

Thumping annd vibration.

>The reason I'm asking is that the car has been aligned, spin balanced
>and 2 new hubs/bearings put in and I'm getting a chugging noise and
>vibration that's got me worried.

Chugging noises make me think bearings first off, but if it's not the
bearings, and you are SURE the tires are good, the C-V joints are the
next thing to check.

>This used to happen at highway speeds above 60mph and was not solved
>by the bearings, spin balance, or wheel alignment. I do not have
>clicking in turns, but I'm suspecting the CV's. These are the
>originals and the car has 201K miles. I don't know what else it could
>be.

Tires. Transaxle.

>Since the tires are fairly new and are the same Eagle LS's the car
>came with and this problem existed at high speed with the older tires
>as well, and persists after the bearings, alignment, and spin balance
>there doesn't seem to be anything else it could be.

Well, pull off the rubber boots and look inside the C-V joints for signs
of wear. You might just be able to clean and repack them and get a few
more miles out of them. You might have to replace them. You won't
really know anything until you look inside.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I'm reasonably sure that you can wear out CV joints.
I have 152,000 miles on mine. I'm waiting for the transmission to go,
then have them replaced with new ones at the same time I get my
transmission rebuilt. My boots aren't torn or anything, but I can gra
the bar that between two accordian like things and move it back and
fourth a little (along the axis of the axle). I bet you can do the
same. You can't do that with new ones. If they weren't so hard to
replace I would have tried replacing mine by now. You want to replae
them with new ones, not rebuilt!

Do you have any road symptoms?

On Jul 26, 11:43 am, wrote:
> I'm reasonably sure that you can wear out CV joints.
> I have 152,000 miles on mine. I'm waiting for the transmission to go,
> then have them replaced with new ones at the same time I get my
> transmission rebuilt. My boots aren't torn or anything, but I can gra
> the bar that between two accordian like things and move it back and
> fourth a little (along the axis of the axle). I bet you can do the
> same. You can't do that with new ones. If they weren't so hard to
> replace I would have tried replacing mine by now. You want to replae
> them with new ones, not rebuilt!

> wrote in message You want to replae
> them with new ones, not rebuilt!

Is that a blanket condemnation of rebuilt shafts, or have you had
problems with specific remanufacturers?

In article > ,
hls > wrote:
>
> wrote in message You want to replae
>> them with new ones, not rebuilt!
>
>Is that a blanket condemnation of rebuilt shafts, or have you had
>problems with specific remanufacturers?

I have had very good luck with rebuilt shafts done by a competent machine
shop. Craft Machine in Newport News VA made me up a couple splined
axles with CV joints for my Chrysler a few years back and did an excellent
job of it.

I have had friends with REALLY bad luck with rebuilt shafts from a couple
of the chain stores, including someone who got a shaft from Autozone which
looks like they just cleaned and regreased a bad joint and put a new
boot on it....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> hls > wrote:
>>
> wrote in message You want to replae
>>> them with new ones, not rebuilt!
>>
>>Is that a blanket condemnation of rebuilt shafts, or have you had
>>problems with specific remanufacturers?
>
> I have had very good luck with rebuilt shafts done by a competent machine
> shop.


Scott, from my experience, this is true about just about every
remanufactured
part that can go on an auto. There are some really high quality
remanufacturers
that can come out with a product actually better than OEM (some rack and
pinion remanufacturers I used to know). Then there are others that it is
hard
to see how they stay in business.

Autozone has some crap. I think we agree on that. They have some other
things that are quite okay. As long as one can differentiate the one from
the
other, Autozone serves a purpose.

Their lend situation on some tools saved my bacon a week ago,and I have
some loyalty to them for this and some of their other free services. BUT,
some of their parts I wouldnt touch with gloves.

> Do you have any road symptoms?

I was wondering if the looseness I can feel in the axlw/shaft might
make me think that my tires need to be balanced, when they don't.
That type of symptom.

Interesting reading on Wkipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_velocity_joint

"Faultfinding and diagnosis

Constant velocity joints are usually reliable and largely trouble-
free. The two main failures are wear and partial seizure.

Wear in the outer joint usually shows up as vibration at certain
speeds, a bit like the vibration caused by an unbalanced wheel. To
determine if the joint is worn, a driver should find a big empty car
park and drive the car slowly in tight circles, left and right. Worn
joints will make a rhythmic clicking or cracking noise. Wear in the
inner joints shows up as a "clunk" or "pop" when applying power, or if
severe, when lifting off the throttle.

Partial seizure causes a strange "pattering" sensation through the
suspension. It is caused by the joint overheating, which in turn is
usually caused by the outer joint gaiter having split, allowing the
joint to throw out its grease. If caught in time, one can clean the
joint carefully, repack with grease and replace the gaiter. Kits which
include the grease, gaiter and retaining clips are available from most
automotive manufacturers. Some universal gaiters are split lengthwise
enabling them to be fitted without having to disassemble the wheel hub
and CV joint."


It's not that I disagre with Wikipedia on the clicking issue, I just
figure that the vibration part they mention probably proceeds the
clicking.

On Jul 27, 1:20 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> In article > ,
>
> hls > wrote:
>
> > wrote in message You want to replae
> >> them with new ones, not rebuilt!
>
> >Is that a blanket condemnation of rebuilt shafts, or have you had
> >problems with specific remanufacturers?
>
> I have had very good luck with rebuilt shafts done by a competent machine
> shop. Craft Machine in Newport News VA made me up a couple splined
> axles with CV joints for my Chrysler a few years back and did an excellent
> job of it.
>
> I have had friends with REALLY bad luck with rebuilt shafts from a couple
> of the chain stores, including someone who got a shaft from Autozone which
> looks like they just cleaned and regreased a bad joint and put a new
> boot on it....
> --scott

I've found that all discount rebuilt CV axles use boots that
disintegrate when in contact with atmosphere within a year or two.
Spinning and turning makes them wear out quicker.

A few dealer programs offer better quality reman shafts with OEM boots
for a reasonable price. Unfortunatley the $59.99 to $99.99 CV rebuild
mentality has lowered peoples' idea of 'reasonable pricing' in that
area. There's no way you can make a profit unless you reuse most
parts and buy bulk, poor fitting hard parts made in China along with
the lowest grade boots available.

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