2013 Hyundai Sonata - Caster at low end of Spec Range

The discussion has moved away from caster. At least that
is equal left to right - less than 1/10th degree cross
caster.

Another option might be to 'minus-size' my tires, although this
might prove costly with regards to replacement rims. You
mentioned that wider tires are more responsive to changes in
road angle.

Replace the current 215/55-R17 V-rated
with 205/60-R16 V-rated.

Or should I chase the front cross-camber issue
first?

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:34:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>Another option might be to 'minus-size' my tires, although this
>might prove costly with regards to replacement rims. You
>mentioned that wider tires are more responsive to changes in
>road angle.
>
>Replace the current 215/55-R17 V-rated
>with 205/60-R16 V-rated.
>
>Or should I chase the front cross-camber issue
>first?

I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't bother unless the
car is consistently pulling to the left, but it's up to you to decide
on the meaning of "consistently". But even if it is, the very first
thing I would do, because it's the cheapest thing, is swap those front
tires side to side. I would do that first, but I though you also
mentioned that there are different tires front and rear, so after
doing the side to side swap, I would try front to rear. The rears
might feel different on the front.

Bill Vanek: "I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't bother unless the car is consistently pulling
to the left, but it's up to you to decide on the meaning of "consistently"


All I'm saying is when it *does* drift it does so *mostly* to
the left. I will try to swap the front tires and drive that for
one week. The Kumhos in back are so worn that swapping
them to the front may not make a difference. They're so
poorly rated on Tire rack: Unacceptable in snow and ice
and fair to good for all other qualities. The front Nexens
have no ratings on tire rack - weird. It's not even a
question of replacing both front Nexens and and rear
Kumhos - neither tire will see a flake of snow If I have any
say in it. The two Continental models I'm thinking about
blow them away on all qualities - from dry to snow, to
handling to noise. My wife has had 4 winters of bliss
with her Conti ProContacts, and the PureContacts
are even slightly higher rated by consumers.

But - my instinct tells me *something* should be done about the
front excess cross-camber. The effect of leaving that alone
will be felt regardless of how cheap or expensive tires, however
poorly or highly rated, are put on the car.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:01 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>Bill Vanek: "I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't bother unless the car is consistently pulling
>to the left, but it's up to you to decide on the meaning of "consistently"
>
>
>All I'm saying is when it *does* drift it does so *mostly* to
>the left. I will try to swap the front tires and drive that for
>one week. The Kumhos in back are so worn that swapping
>them to the front may not make a difference. They're so
>poorly rated on Tire rack: Unacceptable in snow and ice
>and fair to good for all other qualities. The front Nexens
>have no ratings on tire rack - weird. It's not even a
>question of replacing both front Nexens and and rear
>Kumhos - neither tire will see a flake of snow If I have any
>say in it. The two Continental models I'm thinking about
>blow them away on all qualities - from dry to snow, to
>handling to noise. My wife has had 4 winters of bliss
>with her Conti ProContacts, and the PureContacts
>are even slightly higher rated by consumers.
>
>But - my instinct tells me *something* should be done about the
>front excess cross-camber. The effect of leaving that alone
>will be felt regardless of how cheap or expensive tires, however
>poorly or highly rated, are put on the car.

Why did they sell you a car with badly worn tires? Can't you insist on
new ones as part of the deal, or at least a swap with another car on
the lot? Or was this not a Hyundai dealer?

wrote:
> Bill Vanek: "I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't
> bother unless the car is consistently pulling to the left, but it's
> up to you to decide on the meaning of "consistently"
>
>
> All I'm saying is when it *does* drift it does so *mostly* to the
> left. I will try to swap the front tires and drive that for one week.
> The Kumhos in back are so worn that swapping them to the front may
> not make a difference. They're so poorly rated on Tire rack:
> Unacceptable in snow and ice and fair to good for all other
> qualities. The front Nexens have no ratings on tire rack - weird.
> It's not even a question of replacing both front Nexens and and rear
> Kumhos - neither tire will see a flake of snow If I have any say in
> it. The two Continental models I'm thinking about blow them away on
> all qualities - from dry to snow, to handling to noise. My wife has
> had 4 winters of bliss with her Conti ProContacts, and the
> PureContacts are even slightly higher rated by consumers.
>
> But - my instinct tells me *something* should be done about the front
> excess cross-camber. The effect of leaving that alone will be felt
> regardless of how cheap or expensive tires, however poorly or highly
> rated, are put on the car.

First thing I would do is check all the rims for issues and replace all
4 tires to get the same size and tread on all 4 corners. Mixed brands,
tire compounds and sizes (even if they have the same numbers they can
still be different sizes depending on the way the company actually
measures them) can cause some strange handling quirks. Now drive it a
bit and see if it has improved.

Next take it to a couple different shops for alignment checks and
compare the numbers. With 4 identical tires inflated to the door sticker
the numbers from both places should be close to identical.

Next decide what you want to do. With the numbers you posted you need to
get it to a shop to adjust the both ends back to spec.

Find a shop and tell them that is what YOU the paying customer wants.

--
Steve W.

Steve W wrote: - show quoted text -
"First thing I would do is check all the rims for issues and replace all
4 tires to get the same size and tread on all 4 corners. Mixed brands,
tire compounds and sizes (even if they have the same numbers they can
still be different sizes depending on the way the company actually
measures them) can cause some strange handling quirks. Now drive it a
bit and see if it has improved. "

Good point. Due to my budget, I will probably
have four identical tires on the car by October.


"Next take it to a couple different shops for alignment checks and
compare the numbers. With 4 identical tires inflated to the door sticker
the numbers from both places should be close to identical. "

I've got the numbers from one dealer who says
their equipt was recently calibrated. I have a
garage nearby that has done good alignments
for me in the past. Perhaps they're next - after
I get some updated rubber on the car.


"Next decide what you want to do. With the numbers you posted you need to
get it to a shop to adjust the both ends back to spec. "

The tech at the aforementioned dealer(with the
recently calibrated alignment gear) says he
drove the car after checking it, on highway and
local roads, and says even with those numbers
he doesn't want to change a thing, says it drives
"beautifully". But he isn't the one driving it
daily, and apparently doesn't grasp the concepts
of cross-camber or total toe.


"Find a shop and tell them that is what YOU the paying
customer wants.

--
Steve W. "

That is going to be difficult.

Bill Vanek wrote:
- show quoted text -
"Why did they sell you a car with badly worn tires? Can't you insist on
new ones as part of the deal, or at least a swap with another car on
the lot? Or was this not a Hyundai dealer? "

Guess I was just in a hurry to get the car I
wanted. Enterprise car sales. Supposed to
have a "109 Point" inspection of all cars they
acquire for resale.

The Sonata I drove exhibited none of the
characteristics of the one I actually bought,
but that one lacked the sunroof I wanted.

Guess you can't have it all!

Bill:

Test drove, that is.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 03:04:00 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>Bill Vanek wrote:
>- show quoted text -
>"Why did they sell you a car with badly worn tires? Can't you insist on
>new ones as part of the deal, or at least a swap with another car on
>the lot? Or was this not a Hyundai dealer? "
>
>Guess I was just in a hurry to get the car I
>wanted. Enterprise car sales. Supposed to
>have a "109 Point" inspection of all cars they
>acquire for resale.
>
>The Sonata I drove exhibited none of the
>characteristics of the one I actually bought,
>but that one lacked the sunroof I wanted.
>
>Guess you can't have it all!

Did you ask if you could swap tires with the one you liked? Enterprise
should have no objection to that, or swapping with another car. If
not, then Steve W.'s advice is to get new and high quality tires is
good advice.