GT JTD Turbo lag?

OK, I'm not even sure if "turbo lag" is the correct terminology here, but
it's my crude attempt to describe the feeling when you pull out at a
roundabout in second gear, underestimate the approaching cars speed, grin
sheepishly at the driver of the oncoming car who resolutely refuses to slow
down and revels in your discomfort until (after what feels like an eternity)
the GT hits 2000 rpm then BAM, you're off like a shot just in time to save
your pride and bodywork!

I don't know if it's because my 1.9 GT JTD is new (only 700 miles on the
clock) and hasn't "loosened up" yet, but I'm (quite) sure that when I test
drove the JTD, the turbo kicked in at around 1500 rpm which gave a much
wider spread of power and usable acceleration at low revs.

What is the experience of other JTD drivers on the group? Is it normal for
the power to come on tap at 2000 rpm? Is there a "running in" period for the
JTD? I've even heard it said that the engine management system automatically
reduces the turbo until the engine has reached a predetermined mileage
(which I doubt).

Thanks - Grahame.

"Grahame" wrote:

> I don't know if it's because my 1.9 GT JTD is new (only 700 miles on the
> clock) and hasn't "loosened up" yet, but I'm (quite) sure that when I test
> drove the JTD, the turbo kicked in at around 1500 rpm which gave a much
> wider spread of power and usable acceleration at low revs.

My it shows how things have changed (makes me feel old). Expecting any sort
of power at 1500rpm, especially in an Alfa renowned for its revvy engines
seems way too optimistic. My recollection of turbo diesel hire cars (Mondeos
etc.) is that just as the turbo kicks in and you get some power going the
engine reaches its max revs and dies.

I know things have moved on remarkably in the last few years, but I don't
think I'd be relying on a car zipping along to nip in front of oncoming
traffic being in a gear giving me just 1500 revs. Call me old fashioned...

Grahame, don't worry, it's absolutely normal with the new 150bhps 1.9 JTD
engine. I had a test drive in a GT like yours, and the only two problems are
that at low revs there's no power (until 2000) and that's the engine is a
bit too noisy from the inside.
Yes, you have to do some more miles, and the engine will "tune up" a bit and
became more comfortable to drive.

--
Jacopo
Prato, Italia
--
Sportwagon 2.5 V6 24V Distinctive
Join the Club!
www.alfasport.net
--

One simple solution: shift down a gear!
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (from 19 October: GT 2.0JTS)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)

"Grahame" > schreef in bericht
...
> OK, I'm not even sure if "turbo lag" is the correct terminology here, but
> it's my crude attempt to describe the feeling when you pull out at a
> roundabout in second gear, underestimate the approaching cars speed, grin
> sheepishly at the driver of the oncoming car who resolutely refuses to
> slow down and revels in your discomfort until (after what feels like an
> eternity) the GT hits 2000 rpm then BAM, you're off like a shot just in
> time to save your pride and bodywork!
>
> I don't know if it's because my 1.9 GT JTD is new (only 700 miles on the
> clock) and hasn't "loosened up" yet, but I'm (quite) sure that when I test
> drove the JTD, the turbo kicked in at around 1500 rpm which gave a much
> wider spread of power and usable acceleration at low revs.
>
> What is the experience of other JTD drivers on the group? Is it normal for
> the power to come on tap at 2000 rpm? Is there a "running in" period for
> the JTD? I've even heard it said that the engine management system
> automatically reduces the turbo until the engine has reached a
> predetermined mileage (which I doubt).
>
> Thanks - Grahame.
>

"Jacopo" > wrote in message
...
> Grahame, don't worry, it's absolutely normal with the new 150bhps 1.9 JTD
> engine. I had a test drive in a GT like yours, and the only two problems
> are that at low revs there's no power (until 2000) and that's the engine
> is a bit too noisy from the inside.
> Yes, you have to do some more miles, and the engine will "tune up" a bit
> and became more comfortable to drive.
>
> --
> Jacopo
> Prato, Italia
> --
> Sportwagon 2.5 V6 24V Distinctive
> Join the Club!
> www.alfasport.net
> --

Thanks Jacopo - Grahame.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:28:36 +0100, "Grahame"
> wrote:

>OK, I'm not even sure if "turbo lag" is the correct terminology here, but
>it's my crude attempt to describe the feeling when you pull out at a
>roundabout in second gear, underestimate the approaching cars speed, grin
>sheepishly at the driver of the oncoming car who resolutely refuses to slow
>down and revels in your discomfort until (after what feels like an eternity)
>the GT hits 2000 rpm then BAM, you're off like a shot just in time to save
>your pride and bodywork!

Sounds like you're new to a performance oil burner but it's perfectly
normal. If you can find a graph of torque vs revs you will find it
goes near vertical at the lowest revs Alfa gives for the power band of
your car. In my case it's 1800rpm but the effect is an amazing (and
slightly scary) BANG when you do it on full throttle.

>I don't know if it's because my 1.9 GT JTD is new (only 700 miles on the
>clock) and hasn't "loosened up" yet, but I'm (quite) sure that when I test
>drove the JTD, the turbo kicked in at around 1500 rpm which gave a much
>wider spread of power and usable acceleration at low revs.

Don't expect much change. My engine's been the same since day 1. No
change in oil consumption (zero..my oil tin is rusting away now!) and
no change in performance.

What will happen to make this 'problem' go away is you will learn to
automatically dip the clutch to let the engine spin just into the
power band so you don't drift down into the dead zone. Don't worry
about it!

>What is the experience of other JTD drivers on the group? Is it normal for
>the power to come on tap at 2000 rpm? Is there a "running in" period for the
>JTD? I've even heard it said that the engine management system automatically
>reduces the turbo until the engine has reached a predetermined mileage
>(which I doubt).

IMHO, the only running in that's worthwhile on any new car is bedding
in the piston rings by ragging the car rotten for it's first 20
miles!! For the rest of her life after that, warm her up fully and
fairly gently every time then, drive as you want/can!

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

<snip>
> IMHO, the only running in that's worthwhile on any new car is bedding
> in the piston rings by ragging the car rotten for it's first 20
> miles!!

I've heard of this before. I assume you wait for the engine to warm up
before ragging it? (Not that it matters, I can't see myself owning a new car
for quite some time.)

> For the rest of her life after that, warm her up fully and
> fairly gently every time then, drive as you want/can!
>
> --
> Z
> Scotland
> Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
> 'Oil' be seeing you..
> (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

> Sounds like you're new to a performance oil burner but it's perfectly
> normal. If you can find a graph of torque vs revs you will find it
> goes near vertical at the lowest revs Alfa gives for the power band of
> your car. In my case it's 1800rpm but the effect is an amazing (and
> slightly scary) BANG when you do it on full throttle.

Yes you're right, this is my first performance diesel (diesel of any kind
for that matter).

>>I don't know if it's because my 1.9 GT JTD is new (only 700 miles on the
>>clock) and hasn't "loosened up" yet, but I'm (quite) sure that when I test
>>drove the JTD, the turbo kicked in at around 1500 rpm which gave a much
>>wider spread of power and usable acceleration at low revs.
>
> Don't expect much change. My engine's been the same since day 1. No
> change in oil consumption (zero..my oil tin is rusting away now!) and
> no change in performance.
>
> What will happen to make this 'problem' go away is you will learn to
> automatically dip the clutch to let the engine spin just into the
> power band so you don't drift down into the dead zone. Don't worry
> about it!

Funny you should say that, I'm already starting to get into that habit! I
guess it just takes a little time to learn how best to extract the best
performance from the JTD. It's suprising how different the technique is from
driving a petrol engine (great fun though).

>>What is the experience of other JTD drivers on the group? Is it normal for
>>the power to come on tap at 2000 rpm? Is there a "running in" period for
>>the
>>JTD? I've even heard it said that the engine management system
>>automatically
>>reduces the turbo until the engine has reached a predetermined mileage
>>(which I doubt).
>
> IMHO, the only running in that's worthwhile on any new car is bedding
> in the piston rings by ragging the car rotten for it's first 20
> miles!! For the rest of her life after that, warm her up fully and
> fairly gently every time then, drive as you want/can!

Well, I took it easy for the first 1000 miles or so, but the gloves are off
now

Thanks for taking the time to respond (and for putting my mind at rest!) -
Grahame.

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:53:37 +0100, Tom Boltwood >
wrote:

>
><snip>
>> IMHO, the only running in that's worthwhile on any new car is bedding
>> in the piston rings by ragging the car rotten for it's first 20
>> miles!!
>
>I've heard of this before. I assume you wait for the engine to warm up
>before ragging it? (Not that it matters, I can't see myself owning a new car
>for quite some time.)

Waiting to warm the car up might stop this little trick working. In
this *special* case you want to deliberately wear your rings and the
cylinder honing pattern properly and you only have a VERY short time
in which to do it. Once the honing pattern has gone..it's gone!

How much engine running has a car done before you get it? It might be
too late even by then. That honing pattern isn't designed to last very
long at all.

I should have mentioned previously that this technique *is*
controversial and YMMV.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:14:07 +0100, "Grahame"
> wrote:

<Snip>
>Well, I took it easy for the first 1000 miles or so

I subscribe to the no-running-in school of thought that says 'from day
one drive the car gently until warm and, after that, drive it how you
like'. Apart from anything else, it's just too tempting to have fun in
Alfas (a top make for getting a speeding fine in BTW!). Drive an Alfa
'easy' for 1000 miles - you've got the patience of a saint!

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)