Buying your tools at sears?

http://www.impomag.com/blogs/2012/12...ing-innovation

bob

On 12/18/2012 01:56 PM, bob urz wrote:
> http://www.impomag.com/blogs/2012/12...ing-innovation
>
>
> bob

and yet, you can still buy tools at sears that clearly have "made in
usa" stamped right into the metal. it's next to impossible to do that
at home depot or lowes. "made in usa" is notably ABSENT from my latest
snap-on ratchet too.


--
fact check required

On 2012-12-18, bob urz > wrote:
> http://www.impomag.com/blogs/2012/12...ing-innovation

The article is apparently written with the attitude that you can
innovate once and then ride on that for a long time. It doesn't work
that way. Innovation has to be constant. One new product after the next.
Someone with 30 years developing product should have understood this.

Yes, it sucks that the patent and legal systems are set up for the bigs.
The bigs paid good money to get them set up that way. But that is really
a side story for competing on innovation. The real story is how this
government protection kills innovation by creating this expectation of
protection so people don't do the next generation or can't improve upon
a competitor's product.

Six years is a solid product life these days. Those who want to make
their way innovating need to turn their products faster than that. It's
just the way it is.

On 12/19/2012 12:22 AM, bob urz wrote:
> On 12/18/2012 11:03 PM, Brent wrote:
>
>>
>> Six years is a solid product life these days. Those who want to make
>> their way innovating need to turn their products faster than that. It's
>> just the way it is.
>>
>
> When talking about consumer electronics, especially cell phones, 3
> months is a long time. Apple and Samsung have been duking it out for a
> few years now globally in the courts. and its still going on.
> You could patent how to take a **** these days and sue someone
> for the audacity of a bowel movement.
>
>
> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.
>
> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
> made me think twice about it. I ended up getting a more basic set
> at harbor freight for $16 after coupon and sale.

<lecture_mode>
cheap chinese tools are cheap for a reason. at best, their poor
dimensional tolerances and weak metal will merely damage what you're
working on. but there's also a good chance they'll break and damage you
as well.

always buy the best tools you can - sears "made in usa" aren't the best
out there, but they're adequate, safe, and reasonable value for money,
especially for occasional users. especially especially when bought on sale.
</lecture_mode>


--
fact check required

On 12/18/2012 11:03 PM, Brent wrote:

>
> Six years is a solid product life these days. Those who want to make
> their way innovating need to turn their products faster than that. It's
> just the way it is.
>

When talking about consumer electronics, especially cell phones, 3
months is a long time. Apple and Samsung have been duking it out for a
few years now globally in the courts. and its still going on.
You could patent how to take a **** these days and sue someone
for the audacity of a bowel movement.


Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.

I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
made me think twice about it. I ended up getting a more basic set
at harbor freight for $16 after coupon and sale.

[farting part snipped]
> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.

that's "make just good enough for satisfying the customer" part

> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article

how much was bionic set going for before sears started to cut corners?

On 12/19/2012 4:41 AM, AD wrote:
> [farting part snipped]
>> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
>> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
>> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.
>
> that's "make just good enough for satisfying the customer" part
>
>> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
>> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
>
> how much was bionic set going for before sears started to cut corners?
>
The max access are relatively new. They were on sale for $69 or so
recently.

I also noticed sears started selling the spline looking universal
wrenches and such. I wonder if they ripped that off also?

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/19/2012 12:22 AM, bob urz wrote:
>> On 12/18/2012 11:03 PM, Brent wrote:
>>>
>>> Six years is a solid product life these days. Those who want to make
>>> their way innovating need to turn their products faster than that. It's
>>> just the way it is.
>>
>> When talking about consumer electronics, especially cell phones, 3
>> months is a long time. Apple and Samsung have been duking it out for a
>> few years now globally in the courts. and its still going on.
>> You could patent how to take a **** these days and sue someone
>> for the audacity of a bowel movement.
>>
>> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
>> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
>> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.
>>
>> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
>> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
>> made me think twice about it. I ended up getting a more basic set
>> at harbor freight for $16 after coupon and sale.
>
> <lecture_mode>
> cheap chinese tools are cheap for a reason. at best, their poor
> dimensional tolerances and weak metal will merely damage what you're
> working on. but there's also a good chance they'll break and damage you
> as well.
>
> always buy the best tools you can - sears "made in usa" aren't the best
> out there, but they're adequate, safe, and reasonable value for money,
> especially for occasional users. especially especially when bought on
> sale.
> </lecture_mode>

And especially when bought via the catalog prices and in sets.

bob urz wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 4:41 AM, AD wrote:
>> [farting part snipped]
>>> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
>>> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
>>> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.
>> that's "make just good enough for satisfying the customer" part
>>
>>> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
>>> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
>> how much was bionic set going for before sears started to cut corners?
>>
> The max access are relatively new. They were on sale for $69 or so
> recently.
>
> I also noticed sears started selling the spline looking universal
> wrenches and such. I wonder if they ripped that off also?

The spline tools are nothing more than a misuse of industrial spline
drive that has been around for years (not a big seller unless you do
very specific work). Sears (and others) are telling folks how the
wrenches can be used for all the different fasteners. The problem is
that while they can be used that way they are not intended to be. The
splines have a very nasty habit of stripping the corners off fasteners
other than spline drive parts. They are also much weaker than a 6 or 12
point wrench simply by virtue of the lack of metal on the flats.

Sears has used just about every tool maker at one point or another. With
many tool makers now having plants worldwide it is harder to tell where
the tool is actually made. In reality IF they use a good alloy and
quality control it doesn't matter much. The trend of "It's China made so
it's junk" is not really true. I have seen tools made in the US that are
worse junk than ones made in other countries.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." > wrote in message
...
> bob urz wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 4:41 AM, AD wrote:
>>> [farting part snipped]
>>>> Sears tools seem to me not up to what they used to be. When i have
>>>> had ratchets replaced under the lifetime warranty, the replacements
>>>> did not seem as robust to me. Not junk, but not as well made.
>>> that's "make just good enough for satisfying the customer" part
>>>
>>>> I was just recently looking at the Maxx Access tools and thought they
>>>> might be nice to have. The good set is $80 or so. Reading the article
>>> how much was bionic set going for before sears started to cut corners?
>>>
>> The max access are relatively new. They were on sale for $69 or so
>> recently.
>>
>> I also noticed sears started selling the spline looking universal
>> wrenches and such. I wonder if they ripped that off also?
>
> The spline tools are nothing more than a misuse of industrial spline drive
> that has been around for years (not a big seller unless you do very
> specific work). Sears (and others) are telling folks how the wrenches can
> be used for all the different fasteners. The problem is that while they
> can be used that way they are not intended to be. The splines have a very
> nasty habit of stripping the corners off fasteners other than spline drive
> parts. They are also much weaker than a 6 or 12 point wrench simply by
> virtue of the lack of metal on the flats.

Spline tools should be used on spline heads most commonly found
in the aircraft and aerospace industries. "Flank drive", on the other
hand, is even superior to the best of the standard 6 point sockets.

> Sears has used just about every tool maker at one point or another. With
> many tool makers now having plants worldwide it is harder to tell where
> the tool is actually made. In reality IF they use a good alloy and quality
> control it doesn't matter much. The trend of "It's China made so it's
> junk" is not really true. I have seen tools made in the US that are worse
> junk than ones made in other countries.