134a Refrigerant

An Introduction to Physical Science:
http://college.hmco.com/physicalscie...udygoals/ch19/

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
> I'm not going to try and educate you, that's for our schools, but
> then Liberals can't be bothered with facts, it be just another waste of
> tax payer's money.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > As long as Bush does what he does best...
> > the head in the sand thing, I mean...
>
> you got something specific to justify such a statement

Nate, Nate, Nate... lend me your eyes!

http://www.sustainer.org/dhm_archive...e=vn332ozoneed

and quote:
<>
It's not an attitude that should be rewarded; but the price is cheap, and
the Third World honestly needs the money. Substitute chemicals will be more
expensive. Current production plants will have to be retooled, equipment
replaced, workers retrained. Investment is needed to reduce the Third
World's particularly wasteful CFC use (from bad manufacturing, poor
maintenance, harsh environmental conditions, and inadequate insulation).
The international fund for these purposes, ******which the Bush
administration
opposes*******, has been set at $100 million a year (much of which will be
paid
promptly to Du Pont for CFC substitutes). The U.S. share would be $15-$20
million -- the amount our government spends in 10 minutes; one
ten-thousandth of the deficit; about 10 cents per American; or alternatively
two cents out of every dollar of the excise tax our government has imposed
on the CFC industry.
</>

Notice the '*****' part... that's the 'head in the sand'
I was referring to. Or you can take the current debacle
in Iraq as 'head in the sand'... that would be appropriate
too.
__
Steve
..

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > Exactly... the CFC's didn't cause the vortex, but the vortex
> > exacerbates the CFC problem. Glad to see you're finally
> > coming around...

> It's the way you liberals harp about it, as if we could change
> anything, delusions of grander.

I agree, Bill... you can't change.... : )

BTW, didn't you get Dominion? Why aren't
you using your Dominion (with a capital 'D'!)?
__
Steve
..

"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
m...
> which the Bush
> administration
> opposes

ah i see. if he doesnt agree with your idealogy his head is in the sand?
well then consider mine there also. suck it up stephen, your side LOST.
our side owes your side NOTHING. we dont have to share your views. in fact
it is our opposing views that WON.

while im libertarian, bush comes a hell of a lot closer to my beliefs than
your guy.



> Or you can take the current debacle
> in Iraq as 'head in the sand'... that would be appropriate
> too.

debacle? i love how you liberals (who claim to stand for human rights)
overlook that iraq is free from tyranny. iraqi women are now allowed to GO
TO SCHOOL, to hold jobs, to live as equal citizens. no stephen, id say iraq
has been an overwhelming success to date. that could change tomorrow, but
as it is right now with bush leading the way iraq is a success.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

I'm fairly sure the Democrats will never win another election.
Their numbers have dwindle to less than half, dyeing off with their
abortions and queer marriages that do not produce offspring. The moral
majority has won. People again will work for their keep.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> ah i see. if he doesnt agree with your idealogy his head is in the sand?
> well then consider mine there also. suck it up stephen, your side LOST.
> our side owes your side NOTHING. we dont have to share your views. in fact
> it is our opposing views that WON.
>
> while im libertarian, bush comes a hell of a lot closer to my beliefs than
> your guy.
>
> debacle? i love how you liberals (who claim to stand for human rights)
> overlook that iraq is free from tyranny. iraqi women are now allowed to GO
> TO SCHOOL, to hold jobs, to live as equal citizens. no stephen, id say iraq
> has been an overwhelming success to date. that could change tomorrow, but
> as it is right now with bush leading the way iraq is a success.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com

"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > http://www.al.noaa.gov/WWWHD/pubdocs...nt98/faq3.html
>
> ?? thats the SAME CRAP youve been posting! ill quote and capitalize my
> point that removes the whole "conclusive" thing im asking for: "They have
> found that the emissions of the human-produced halocarbons, plus the much
> smaller contribution from natural sources, COULD account for all of the
> stratospheric chlorine."
> "could". nothing conclusive there.

You won't be persuaded... we all realize this.

>
>
> > 'Drivvel'? Self-referential, that...
>
> you coulda just said "i know you are, but what am i?".

No, I'd have had to say 'i knwo you aer, btu whta am i?'

>
>
> > Why is it not all Argon
> > down here? By your ignorance, we should all be dead
> > now... the Oxygen layer would be several thousand feet up.
>
> your either total jackass or you really havent a clue. one word.
> concentration.

I thought it all settled out! Why am I not strangling in
a sea of Argon? It's one percent of the air
we breathe, and it's the heavy portion at that!
It's heavier than Oxygen... by your estimation, we
should have a perfectly stratified atmosphere, right?
What went wrong with your pet theory?

>
>
> > Do you dispute that the HVAC industry is
> > not in agreement over ozone depletion?
>
> no. i dispute that the hvac industry is not in agreement over what causes
> it. you have NO IDEA how common it really is for a tech to vent
> refrigerant.

How about if I tell you that I've been a tech, and
vented refrigerant? How about if I tell you that
the effects of this vented refrigerant can't be
hidden, and are cumulative? THAT'S THE WHOLE
FRICKIN' PROBLEM, NATE!!!


> NO IDEA because youre on the outside looking in, pretending
> you know something because they told you what to think in your liberal
> seminars.

Oh, those seminars! I just lay awake at night, thinking
about those Liberals in their Liberal seminars, plotting
how to get Lenin and Mao on the city council!
What do conservatives have, clusterf*cks?

> im sure youll find all sorts of things to read to back up your
> beliefs because theres plenty published on both sides but i can assure you
> that most within the hvac industry know its bull**** and thats why
> refrigerant is vented so freely.

No, refrigerant is vented so freely because the tech is
lazy... and doesn't give a damn. I heard the SOB do
it in my garage, when he replaced our central unit...
thought about turning him in. Guess I'm just a liberal
pussy... I let him get away with it. He did a ****ty job,
had to come back and fix gas leaks, his putty job
sucked.... he had to wake somebody to get a part
that he forgot to order, on Sunday... he'll get his
someday.


>sure, some of it has to do with laziness,
> some with ticket time (recovery can be an extensive process), but it would
> all be worth it if anyone believed what they were doing was destroying the
> environment.

Yeah, I go to cheeseball HVAC techs for my
atmospheric science, just like you do... not.

> so you go right ahead and stick your head in the sand and
> pretend that the hvac industry agrees with you.....

It *has* to. We know all about the bad apples...
that's why the protocol has to be enforced.
Harm reduction... something that doesn't pad
the bottom line, something that pays back on
the timescale of decades, centuries... something
you couldn't give a rat's ass about.

> maybe that will give you
> a warm and fuzzy feeling....but you look out your own window the next time
a
> technician replaces your compressor. unless he knows youre watching, my
> money says he vents. of course, i would never do this because i always
> follow the rules.

Whatever... doesn't matter. Science and Harm
Reduction are in force... kinda funny that it
****es you off, saving your descendants from
skin cancer and all....

>
>
> > You'll have to ask your pastor for that one... oh,
>
> TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide conclusive evidence to back up my
claims"
>
> and btw, i dont have any pastor.....i feel no need for one.....and im not
a
> republican either (or democrat). :-)

See? Militia! Told you so! Prove me wrong!

> > Now you've admitted that Chlorine is found in
> > the stratosphere... are you going to assert that
> > it's coming from outer space?
>
> ive asked you to prove its coming from refrigerant. ive asked you to
prove
> it doesnt naturally occur within the stratosphere. in fact, with its
> heavier atomic weight the only way (that makes any sense) it could reach
the
> stratosphere would be through volcanic eruption since the force of the
> eruption would push it there.

Then why is it there in conjunction with CFC's? Why are
the breakdown products of the reaction there? Why does
it happen mostly at the Vortex? How many volcanos occur
in Antarctica, Nate? I trust the scientists, and you don't...
why should I let your decisions screw up my world?
__
Steve
..

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...

> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > ?? What planet are you on? Are you saying that the air that's
> > one foot to the north of the equator never exchanges with
> > the air that's one foot to the south of the equator? Who makes
> > you exhale when you cross over? There's less than a 10% difference
> > in measured atmospheric CFC between north and south, btw...
> > it *does* even out.
> >
> > What has the *magnetic* pole to do with our discussion?
> > You were citing crystal mysticism! Wacky!

> I'm not going to try and educate you, that's for our schools, but
> then Liberals can't be bothered with facts, it be just another waste of
> tax payer's money.

Facts? Crystal Mysticism? Giant wall around the Equator?
I'm sure you realize that once you admit, as you must, that
the air one foot north of the equator is allowed to mix with
the air one foot south of the equator, then the slippery slope
is entered... and the atmosphere is mixed.
__
Steve
..

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> "L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:
> >
> > I'm not going to try and educate you, that's for our schools, but
> > then Liberals can't be bothered with facts, it be just another waste of
> > tax payer's money.

> An Introduction to Physical Science:
>
http://college.hmco.com/physicalscie...udygoals/ch19/
>

No, I need School Vouchers! Nice link, btw... here's
a quote:

<>
The atmosphere makes it possible for life to exist on Earth. You should not
need any more reason than this to study the atmosphere, but if you are not
already impressed by its importance, consider the grandeur of atmospheric
phenomena such as rainbows, sunsets, and auroras. An ozone layer in the
atmosphere protects us from harmful ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. The
atmosphere also redistributes the heat supplied to our planet by the Sun,
thus providing temperate climate conditions over large areas of Earth's
surface that would be inhospitable to human life without this heat exchange.
Studying the composition and structure of the atmosphere helps us to
understand how complicated and vulnerable this large ocean of air really is.
Current interest in ecology demands that we take better care of our fragile
atmosphere. If we do not, it is likely that we will severely curtail our
long-term chances for survival as a species.

....


The atmosphere acts somewhat like a transparent filter that readily admits
sunlight and allows the heated surface of Earth to distribute energy to the
lower layers of the atmosphere by infrared emissions. This process is known
as the greenhouse effect. (See Figure 1 in the chapter's second Highlight.)
The amount of heat trapped by the greenhouse effect is influenced by the
composition of the atmosphere, which in turn is greatly affected by
pollution created by humans.
</>

It supports Global Warming!
__
Steve
..

"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
...
>> ?? thats the SAME CRAP youve been posting! ill quote and capitalize my
>> point that removes the whole "conclusive" thing im asking for: "They have
>> found that the emissions of the human-produced halocarbons, plus the much
>> smaller contribution from natural sources, COULD account for all of the
>> stratospheric chlorine."
>> "could". nothing conclusive there.
>
> You won't be persuaded... we all realize this.

TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide conclusive evidence, nate"

.......i already told you that! :-)


> It's one percent of the air
> we breathe

DUH! the concentration isnt high enough to cause a problem.


> How about if I tell you that I've been a tech

id have to ask you to prove it by showing your epa certification. id be
glad to show you mine.


> How about if I tell you that
> the effects of this vented refrigerant can't be
> hidden, and are cumulative?

i would ONCE AGAIN ask you for conclusive evidence.


> What do conservatives have, clusterf*cks?

realistic goals. :-)


> No, refrigerant is vented so freely because the tech is
> lazy... and doesn't give a damn.

i cant believe that it all boils down to laziness. sure some of it does,
but the majority knows better. ive never met another tech who believed that
refrigerant was hazardous to our environment. if i believed it were i would
take great precautions, and i know my fellow technicians would as well.


> Yeah, I go to cheeseball HVAC techs for my
> atmospheric science, just like you do... not.

you claimed the hvac industry agrees with your idealogy. i know better.

> kinda funny that it
> ****es you off, saving your descendants from
> skin cancer and all....

it doesnt "**** me off". i simply hate bad information, particulary when
its driven by ANY political agenda.


> Then why is it there in conjunction with CFC's?

show me something CONCLUSIVE that proves refrigerant cfc's are there. until
then ill continue to point out that youre spouting agenda driven speculation
and belief, but nothing factual or proven in any way.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
> m...
> > which the Bush
> > administration
> > opposes
>
> ah i see. if he doesnt agree with your idealogy his head is in the sand?
> well then consider mine there also.

You're a little late with that one...

>suck it up stephen, your side LOST.
> our side owes your side NOTHING. we dont have to share your views. in
fact
> it is our opposing views that WON.

What refrigerant is in your late-model car?

>
> while im libertarian, bush comes a hell of a lot closer to my beliefs than
> your guy.

You really believe all that Babylon crap?
I'll admit, I'd *damn* sure have rather
skipped out on that whole Vietnam thing...
you'd certainly have found me closer to
Bush than Kerry then!

Oh, if you're Libertarian... get off my damn
roads!

> > Or you can take the current debacle
> > in Iraq as 'head in the sand'... that would be appropriate
> > too.
>
> debacle? i love how you liberals (who claim to stand for human rights)
> overlook that iraq is free from tyranny. iraqi women are now allowed to
GO
> TO SCHOOL, to hold jobs, to live as equal citizens. no stephen, id say
iraq
> has been an overwhelming success to date. that could change tomorrow, but
> as it is right now with bush leading the way iraq is a success.

Don't you think we could have made more
points that way by invading Sudan?

That's why we went to Iraq? To free
their women? Well, I guess Saudi
Arabia's next!

"Overwhelming success"... I'll agree on
the 'overwhelming' part.
__
Steve
..