93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start

My 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee recently started having starting issues. At
first it would start after 2-3 tries, but now it continually takes
longer and longer to get it to turn over. First I thought it was the
battery (weak or being drained), but after a full recharge and
replacment, the problem persists. Cables appear fine. Jump-starting
will help if the battery is weak, but it still takes multiple tries to
get it to turn over. This morning, it took 20 minutes and at least 25
tries to get it to go from cranking to actually starting. Sometimes
during cranking the security light flashes on the dash. Sometimes you
hear what sounds like a solenoid(?) clicking when you turn the
ignition. Often if you keep turning the ignition on and off until you
hear the fuel pump priming(?), then on the next crank attempt, it
starts, but not consistantly. I'm suspicious of a short somewhere. Fuel
solenoid? Security system? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Because the idiot light comes on, I would be suspecting the alarm first.

Second I would be suspecting the body ground is dirty or has failed
because of the 'sometimes' factor. The body can steal grounds through
things like the gas pedal cable and brake pedal, but it is not
consistent.

Some 4.0 engines have a mesh strap from the rear of the head to the
firewall and/or from the engine to the frame across an engine mount, but
some Jeeps use a negative cable from the battery to the fender for a
ground.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Casper wrote:
>
> My 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee recently started having starting issues. At
> first it would start after 2-3 tries, but now it continually takes
> longer and longer to get it to turn over. First I thought it was the
> battery (weak or being drained), but after a full recharge and
> replacment, the problem persists. Cables appear fine. Jump-starting
> will help if the battery is weak, but it still takes multiple tries to
> get it to turn over. This morning, it took 20 minutes and at least 25
> tries to get it to go from cranking to actually starting. Sometimes
> during cranking the security light flashes on the dash. Sometimes you
> hear what sounds like a solenoid(?) clicking when you turn the
> ignition. Often if you keep turning the ignition on and off until you
> hear the fuel pump priming(?), then on the next crank attempt, it
> starts, but not consistantly. I'm suspicious of a short somewhere. Fuel
> solenoid? Security system? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

You have ten years, a hundred thousand miles, you need a new fuel
pump.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Casper wrote:
>
> My 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee recently started having starting issues. At
> first it would start after 2-3 tries, but now it continually takes
> longer and longer to get it to turn over. First I thought it was the
> battery (weak or being drained), but after a full recharge and
> replacment, the problem persists. Cables appear fine. Jump-starting
> will help if the battery is weak, but it still takes multiple tries to
> get it to turn over. This morning, it took 20 minutes and at least 25
> tries to get it to go from cranking to actually starting. Sometimes
> during cranking the security light flashes on the dash. Sometimes you
> hear what sounds like a solenoid(?) clicking when you turn the
> ignition. Often if you keep turning the ignition on and off until you
> hear the fuel pump priming(?), then on the next crank attempt, it
> starts, but not consistantly. I'm suspicious of a short somewhere. Fuel
> solenoid? Security system? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:
> You have ten years, a hundred thousand miles, you need a new fuel
> pump.

I second that option.

Is there a way to turn off the alarm to test out the alarm system as
being suspect? Perhaps a fuse in the panel and/or a possible second one
in the factory installed systems? The alarm works fine if you use the
original key or electronic key, but 3rd-party made keys can
occasionally set of the alarm from the door key hole. The alarm never
goes off otherwise.

As a side note, I only have one electronic key, and no Jeep dealer
service deparment could get another key attuned to the system
simultaneously with the existing one. Only one or the other can be
programmed at a time.

Have you changed it's filter? We change regularly every twenty five
thousand miles on Fords, GMs, and Even the YJ Jeep designed by American
Motors Corp. Guess why?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Casper wrote:
>
> As for fuel pump, why? Just based on mileage/years? I don't believe
> this is the issue, so I'd like to hear your reasoning on why the fuel
> pump.

Casper did pass the time by typing:
> My 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee recently started having starting issues. At
> first it would start after 2-3 tries, but now it continually takes
> longer and longer to get it to turn over. First I thought it was the
> battery (weak or being drained), but after a full recharge and
> replacment, the problem persists. Cables appear fine. Jump-starting
> will help if the battery is weak, but it still takes multiple tries to
> get it to turn over. This morning, it took 20 minutes and at least 25
> tries to get it to go from cranking to actually starting. Sometimes
> during cranking the security light flashes on the dash. Sometimes you
> hear what sounds like a solenoid(?) clicking when you turn the
> ignition. Often if you keep turning the ignition on and off until you
> hear the fuel pump priming(?), then on the next crank attempt, it
> starts, but not consistantly. I'm suspicious of a short somewhere. Fuel
> solenoid? Security system? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

ignition coil is possible, how old is it/the wires/the plugs.

Start by pulling the codes
http://revbeergoggles.com/engine_codes.html

It could also be the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor). That will cause
a no-start. By the dipstick (I6) will be a plug that runs around
back. Unplug and replug the plug. Then try starting again.

No fuel pressure or a clogged filter can cause your problem. So can
crapoline. How long has it been since you replaced the filter?

The overall doodad location page:
http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html


--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://revbeergoggles.com
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!

Casper wrote:
> L.W. Hughes III (ßill) wrote:
>
>>You have ten years, a hundred thousand miles, you need a new fuel pump.
>>God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/
>
>
> As for fuel pump, why? Just based on mileage/years? I don't believe
> this is the issue, so I'd like to hear your reasoning on why the fuel
> pump.
>

Mine died at 9 years, 72,000 miles. It got very intermittant.

Have a CB? You should hear the pump for a second or two when you
turn the key. No pump noise, no start. The pump is $100 at PepBoys.

If you get it started, run as much fuel as possible out of it before
you attempt to drop the tank.

The last time I got it to start with the old pump, I had to click
the key 50 times. When I heard the pump in the CB (with the ANL off),
I hit the starter and got to my brother's house with his garage.

I only have third party keys for my 93 ZJ, the keys are just regular keys
they are not like the new anti-theft keys.
I would be looking at the CPS, fuel filter and engine ground strap.

Snow..


"Casper" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Is there a way to turn off the alarm to test out the alarm system as
> being suspect? Perhaps a fuse in the panel and/or a possible second one
> in the factory installed systems? The alarm works fine if you use the
> original key or electronic key, but 3rd-party made keys can
> occasionally set of the alarm from the door key hole. The alarm never
> goes off otherwise.
>
> As a side note, I only have one electronic key, and no Jeep dealer
> service deparment could get another key attuned to the system
> simultaneously with the existing one. Only one or the other can be
> programmed at a time.
>

Casper wrote:
> L.W. Hughes III (ßill) wrote:
>
>>You have ten years, a hundred thousand miles, you need a new fuel pump.
>>God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> As for fuel pump, why? Just based on mileage/years?

Yes. Everything manufactured has a design life and for OEM Cherokee
fuel pumps it seems to be around 100,000 miles. Be happy that yours
fails to start, mine gave up the ghost on a section of highway running
through a crack neighborhood.


> I don't believe this is the issue, so I'd like to hear your reasoning on why the fuel
> pump.

Yossarian, meet Snowden. Snowden, Yossarian. Yossarian here will be
dressing the wound on your leg.

In your first post you wrote:

> Often if you keep turning the ignition on and off until you
> hear the fuel pump priming(?), then on the next crank attempt, it
> starts, but not consistantly.

There's the clue you should be paying attention to, not being lead away
by the red herrings of the battery cables (if it cranks you're already
carrying more current than the ignition will ever need) or the blinking
security light. If all the electrical accessories are working okay then
grounds are low on your list of things to check.

Based on my experience with my own Cherokee I'd suspect:

1. fuel filter
2. fuel pump
3. fuel sender in the tank.

In my case all three gave up, in that order, within a few months of each
other.