Most reliable older VW

"Biz" wrote:
> 68K miles on any 20-year old car is rare, why would it need to be
considered
> differently for a VW rabbit? While they are nice cars, they dont fall
into
> the collectible car craze like muscle cars or rare exotics.

My 89 rabbit has 100K miles...

It is often so that convertables are stored for the winter and driven in the
summer........even vw rabbits :-)

Roy

Buyer beware. I'd definitely consider 68K on a 20 year old Rabbit to be low,
but you need to consider it in conjunction with the overall condition of the
car. I think such low mileage clearly raises a flag unless you have reliable
information considering the history of the car, or it's very obvious that
the car has been driven lightly and stored welled. The fact that the car has
been repainted and has a restored interior makes me VERY skeptical that the
indicated mileage is correct. In fact, I'd bet good money that it isn't. Why
would a car with only 68K miles need to have the interior restored and the
exterior repainted unless it has seen some violence, in which case you'd
have another good reason to wonder about the car's condition? The paint and
interior on my GTI certainly didn't need restoring after only 68K miles, and
it was driven fairly hard and not always parked inside.

As far as tampered odos are concerned, I'm only familiar with the mechanical
odos in A2s such as my GTI. The instrument clusters are easily removed and
disassembled. If someone takes some care, the instrument cluster can be
removed, disassembled and reinstalled without any obvious indication that
it's been done. I've heard that a significant number of A2 odos simply stop
working at some point; the gears in the odo starts to slip on the shaft. The
only way to repair this is to disassemble the odo section and stake the
gears back to the shaft. At this point, it would be a very simple matter to
dial the mileage to any number desired.

Again, I'm not certain if the Rabbit odos are as easily tampered with as
those in A2s, but I suspect they are. If I was in the market to buy a used
GTI such as mine, I would never consider the numbers on the odo to be a
reliable indicator of the condition of the car.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 221,500+ miles

"Mr. D." > wrote in message
om...
> Let's just say in theory, that the 68K was the true original mileage
> like the owner states. Would this be considered low for a VW Rabbit?
> I'm not sure what's considered low mileage for any VW. Oh, and is
> there anyway to tell if the odometer has been tampered with?
>
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
>...
> > May want to take the 68K with a grain of salt. If the odos on Rabbits
were
> > as failure prone and as easily tampered with as those on A2s, no telling
how
> > many miles are on this car. 68K miles on a 20 year old car sounds way
too
> > good to be true, so it probably is. May want to give the car a good
looking
> > over by a trusted mechanic and let the condition speak for itself.

I don't think the IP mentioned what sort of clime the car has lived in, so
it is unclear whether it was stored during winter or not. Also, we in the
States tend to drive more often, and travel farther distances by car than
you folks. You said yourself that you take the bus once in a while; most
Americans would rather have a root canal than take mass transit.

I still say a 68K mile Rabbit with a restored interior and new paint is damn
suspicious.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 221,500+ miles

"-= Roy =-" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Biz" wrote:
> > 68K miles on any 20-year old car is rare, why would it need to be
> considered
> > differently for a VW rabbit? While they are nice cars, they dont fall
> into
> > the collectible car craze like muscle cars or rare exotics.
>
> My 89 rabbit has 100K miles...
>
> It is often so that convertables are stored for the winter and driven in
the
> summer........even vw rabbits :-)
>
> Roy
>
>

"Kent" wrote:
> I don't think the IP mentioned what sort of clime the car has lived in, so
> it is unclear whether it was stored during winter or not. Also, we in the
> States tend to drive more often, and travel farther distances by car than
> you folks. You said yourself that you take the bus once in a while; most
> Americans would rather have a root canal than take mass transit.
>
> I still say a 68K mile Rabbit with a restored interior and new paint is
damn
> suspicious.

Ofcourse I use the bus sometimes, gets me where I need to go in the same
timespan.
Over here that is different indeed.....takes me about 4 hours to reach the
other side of the country, about 400 KM
I live 15 KM away from school, and 20 km from work :-p
And believe me, if you where a student and have a car with a mileage of 16.5
MPG (and about 5 USD per gallon) you would consider the bus as well ;-)

But indeed, either this car was owned by a lover or is fooled with.

Roy

"Mr. D." > wrote in message
om...
> Let's just say in theory, that the 68K was the true original mileage
> like the owner states. Would this be considered low for a VW Rabbit?

There's no such thing as low miles per car model. There's just low miles.

68K miles on a 20 y.o. Rabbit is 3400 miles a year. Most people average at
least 15K a year, so that car theoretically should have 300K miles on it by
now.

So yes it's low. WAAAAY low.

> I'm not sure what's considered low mileage for any VW. Oh, and is there
> anyway to tell if the odometer has been tampered with?

Not that I know of by the car itself but go to carfax.com and spend the $20
for a report. You'll need the VIN.

wrote in message >. ..
> You have not posted the price so who knows if it is a good price.What
> color was the car that it needed to be repainted? Was the car a winter
> only car where all the mileage was acumulated in the slush of winter
> salt? There should not be much wear on a 68,000 mile interior. If it
> was parked in a garage the original interiour should still ok good. If
> it was parked in the sun everything could have rotted. You did not
> post what engine. The carb equiped engine will be impossible to find
> parts related to the carb. Well maybe not impossible but nearly so.
> The fuel injected engine will have many parts still available.

His price is $1550. I called this guy earlier and asked some more
information. I asked why he was selling it, and he said that he has
too many cars at it is, and he needs to unload a handful of them. I
asked if he would allow my mechanic to inspect it, and he said "I
suppose, but why would you want to?" He went on about how the car has
been babied since day 1, and how he performed all the regular
maintenance on time. The car comes from a climate where it is
extremely cold in the winters and very humid in the summer. He claimed
he only used it from Spring through Fall. I asked why the car was
repainted. He said he likes his things looking new. I see nothing
wrong with that. I asked why the interior was redone. He replied by
saying that the car is 20 years old and that interiors don't stay in
mint condition in that length of time and need to be redone at some
point in a car's life. The Rabbit he is selling is fuel injected.

All and all, this seems like a decent car, but I do find it suspicious
how he rather I did not have my mechanic take a look at it. "Caveat
Emptor" as they say...

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Matt B. wrote:

> Most people average at
>least 15K a year

Not nearly.

"Mr. D." > wrote in message
m...
> wrote in message
>. ..
> > You have not posted the price so who knows if it is a good price.What
> > color was the car that it needed to be repainted? Was the car a winter
> > only car where all the mileage was acumulated in the slush of winter
> > salt? There should not be much wear on a 68,000 mile interior. If it
> > was parked in a garage the original interiour should still ok good. If
> > it was parked in the sun everything could have rotted. You did not
> > post what engine. The carb equiped engine will be impossible to find
> > parts related to the carb. Well maybe not impossible but nearly so.
> > The fuel injected engine will have many parts still available.
>
> His price is $1550. I called this guy earlier and asked some more
> information. I asked why he was selling it, and he said that he has
> too many cars at it is, and he needs to unload a handful of them. I
> asked if he would allow my mechanic to inspect it, and he said "I
> suppose, but why would you want to?" He went on about how the car has
> been babied since day 1, and how he performed all the regular
> maintenance on time. The car comes from a climate where it is
> extremely cold in the winters and very humid in the summer. He claimed
> he only used it from Spring through Fall. I asked why the car was
> repainted. He said he likes his things looking new. I see nothing
> wrong with that. I asked why the interior was redone. He replied by
> saying that the car is 20 years old and that interiors don't stay in
> mint condition in that length of time and need to be redone at some
> point in a car's life. The Rabbit he is selling is fuel injected.
>
> All and all, this seems like a decent car, but I do find it suspicious
> how he rather I did not have my mechanic take a look at it. "Caveat
> Emptor" as they say...

Something that I find suspicous is alow mileage car that hasnt been driven
that much, but the interior was worn enough to be redone as well. In my
experience, its usage thats wears out an interior. So how do you wear out
the interior, without putting any miles on the car? My 85 GTI has about
180K miles on it, all original, the interior looks great except for teh side
bolsters of the drivers seat, its time to have the drivers seat
reupholstered, but all other interior parts are still pretty pristine, no
worn spots on anything but the drivers seat, and its a daily driver.

Go to www.kbb.com. Run the numbers for the "Blue Book Private Party Value"
for this car in the zip code where it resides. I think you will find that
even if all that the seller tells you is true, i.e., 68K mileage, excellent
condition, etc., Kelley still values the car at less than $1,000. Even the
retail value (the value of a fully reconditioned car sold by a dealer) would
be less than $1550 according to Kelley. By the way, it's very unlikely the
car meets Kelley's criteria for excellent condition:

"Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks great, is in excellent
mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. It should pass a smog
inspection. The engine compartment should be clean, with no fluid leaks. The
paint is glossy and the body and interior are free of any wear or visible
defects. There is no rust. The tires are the proper size and match and are
new or nearly new. A clean title history is assumed. This is an exceptional
vehicle."

If you still think you want the car, the Kelley information will at least
give you some basis for bargaining.

Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 221,500+ miles

"Mr. D." > wrote in message
m...
> wrote in message
>. ..
> > You have not posted the price so who knows if it is a good price.What
> > color was the car that it needed to be repainted? Was the car a winter
> > only car where all the mileage was acumulated in the slush of winter
> > salt? There should not be much wear on a 68,000 mile interior. If it
> > was parked in a garage the original interiour should still ok good. If
> > it was parked in the sun everything could have rotted. You did not
> > post what engine. The carb equiped engine will be impossible to find
> > parts related to the carb. Well maybe not impossible but nearly so.
> > The fuel injected engine will have many parts still available.
>
> His price is $1550. I called this guy earlier and asked some more
> information. I asked why he was selling it, and he said that he has
> too many cars at it is, and he needs to unload a handful of them. I
> asked if he would allow my mechanic to inspect it, and he said "I
> suppose, but why would you want to?" He went on about how the car has
> been babied since day 1, and how he performed all the regular
> maintenance on time. The car comes from a climate where it is
> extremely cold in the winters and very humid in the summer. He claimed
> he only used it from Spring through Fall. I asked why the car was
> repainted. He said he likes his things looking new. I see nothing
> wrong with that. I asked why the interior was redone. He replied by
> saying that the car is 20 years old and that interiors don't stay in
> mint condition in that length of time and need to be redone at some
> point in a car's life. The Rabbit he is selling is fuel injected.
>
> All and all, this seems like a decent car, but I do find it suspicious
> how he rather I did not have my mechanic take a look at it. "Caveat
> Emptor" as they say...

"Tom's VR6" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Matt B. wrote:
>Most people average at least 15K a year
>
> Not nearly.

I disagree, and so does edmunds.com.

I've driven my '91 GTI for over 13 years now and have consistently averaged
12-15K a year. My commute varied from 5-15 miles each way, 5 days a week.
That I believe is reasonably average.

And if I go to edmunds.com and put in my '00 Eurovan, I find that between
64,400 and 64,410 miles is where they start taking away from the value for a
mileage adjustment. That suggests to me that a '00 car is reasonable to
average about 12,880 and 16,100 a year (depending on if I divide 64,400 by
either 4 or 5 years).

So it's fair to say that 15K is average.