do you think chinese cars will get better tech than japan/europe?

i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
even working on lithium fueled cars...

http://www.chinacarforums.com

you can read all the updates here

Chinacarforums wrote:
> i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
> even working on lithium fueled cars...
>
> http://www.chinacarforums.com

Nonsense. China's industrial and technological bases are far too
primitive compared to those of the major car-building nations, USA,
Japan, Germany, and Korea, and there won't be a competitive
Chinese-designed car for at least 10-20 years. The best evidence for
this is with Japan and Korea, which were far more developed when they
started to sell cars in the US.than China is now. Korea has been
selling cars in the US for 20 years, but only very recently has their
reliability become decent, and their designs are still a bit rough,
although GM and Ford have that problem as well. Japan, despite being
by far the oldest industrial nation in the Far East and the only one
with car makers that have been in business since before WWII, couldn't
compete against US cars until the late 1970s, and then only in small
cars, and the late 1980s or early 1990s for larger cars. Also Japan is
a society that values perfection, quality, and fraternity probably more
than any other one except perhaps Germany, and this greatly helped with
their success.

wrote:
> Chinacarforums wrote:
> > i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
> > even working on lithium fueled cars...
> >
> > http://www.chinacarforums.com
>
> Nonsense. China's industrial and technological bases are far too
> primitive compared to those of the major car-building nations, USA,
> Japan, Germany, and Korea, and there won't be a competitive
> Chinese-designed car for at least 10-20 years. The best evidence for
> this is with Japan and Korea, which were far more developed when they
> started to sell cars in the US.than China is now. Korea has been
> selling cars in the US for 20 years, but only very recently has their
> reliability become decent, and their designs are still a bit rough,
> although GM and Ford have that problem as well. Japan, despite being
> by far the oldest industrial nation in the Far East and the only one
> with car makers that have been in business since before WWII, couldn't
> compete against US cars until the late 1970s, and then only in small
> cars, and the late 1980s or early 1990s for larger cars. Also Japan is
> a society that values perfection, quality, and fraternity probably more
> than any other one except perhaps Germany, and this greatly helped with
> their success.

I don't think it's nonsense. China will certainly become a major
player. The timespan may be greatly compressed. They have leapfroged
other technologies by buying or stealing them as desired. Still, I'm
puzzled on the marketing side as to why they can't find someone to
write for them and further puzzled on the manufacturing side by their
disregard for public safety.

Chinacarforums wrote:
> i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
> even working on lithium fueled cars...

The Chevy Equinox builds their engines over in China. I'm sure all the
engine building secrets that GM has is presently being stolen by the
Chinese so, yea, the Chinese
will catch up REAL quick.

It's amazing that they illegally copy all of our software and movies,
we look the other way at all the political prisoners they have, they
will not get a money standard like other nations have and yet all that
is fine and dandy with the rest of the world, especially the U.S.

Kruse wrote:
> Chinacarforums wrote:
>
>>i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
>>even working on lithium fueled cars...
>
>
> The Chevy Equinox builds their engines over in China. I'm sure all the
> engine building secrets that GM has is presently being stolen by the
> Chinese so, yea, the Chinese
> will catch up REAL quick.

It doesn't really take that much. You've got foreign students
attending grad schools in the US and working in engineering jobs
in the US. Much of the reason why other countries catch up is
because their citizens gain expertise. They also provide a
talent that helps the US economy; it works both ways.

Reverse engineering has been going on nearly forever. The
Chinese aren't the first and probably won't be the last.

> It's amazing that they illegally copy all of our software and movies,
> we look the other way at all the political prisoners they have, they
> will not get a money standard like other nations have and yet all that
> is fine and dandy with the rest of the world, especially the U.S.

I don't particularly like it. But what can you do?

I'm not all that impressed with Chinese manufacturered or
assembled goods. I've visted China, and the indigenous
designs typically aren't that good. Right now I'm typing
on an Apple iBook assembled in China. While the electronics
and mechanicals (much made in other parts of Asia) are reliable
enough, the fit and finish of the case is noticeably inferior
to an older model made in Taiwan.

The real question is whether or not China will be able to
make cars suitable for export without the design and
guidance from VW or GM. When I was there, the preference
was for "foreign" makes that were perceived to be head and
shoulders better than locally designed vehicles.

Al Bundy wrote:

>
> wrote:
>> Chinacarforums wrote:
>> > i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
>> > even working on lithium fueled cars...
>> >
>> > http://www.chinacarforums.com
>>
>> Nonsense. China's industrial and technological bases are far too
>> primitive compared to those of the major car-building nations, USA,
>> Japan, Germany, and Korea, and there won't be a competitive
>> Chinese-designed car for at least 10-20 years. The best evidence for
>> this is with Japan and Korea, which were far more developed when they
>> started to sell cars in the US.than China is now. Korea has been
>> selling cars in the US for 20 years, but only very recently has their
>> reliability become decent, and their designs are still a bit rough,
>> although GM and Ford have that problem as well. Japan, despite being
>> by far the oldest industrial nation in the Far East and the only one
>> with car makers that have been in business since before WWII, couldn't
>> compete against US cars until the late 1970s, and then only in small
>> cars, and the late 1980s or early 1990s for larger cars. Also Japan is
>> a society that values perfection, quality, and fraternity probably more
>> than any other one except perhaps Germany, and this greatly helped with
>> their success.
>
> I don't think it's nonsense. China will certainly become a major
> player. The timespan may be greatly compressed. They have leapfroged
> other technologies by buying or stealing them as desired. Still, I'm
> puzzled on the marketing side as to why they can't find someone to
> write for them and further puzzled on the manufacturing side by their
> disregard for public safety.

They are no different than any other industrialized nation including US. If
it were not for unions, US workers would not have any safe working
conditions either. And there will not be unions in China.

China can get close in probably 20 years. 10 years is a pure joke. They
will be lucky to even sell a car in the us market within 10 years. I don't
see Mexico rolling out no top quality 'Mexican' cars either.

Also lets not forget that US car makers will do everything in their power to
undermine any Chinese upstarts.

Go back and read your automotive history. Look for an example of where
the giants made fun of a new competitor. Look in the footnotes for
xenophobic phrases "Their products are made from old beer cans". Then
look at how the giants were completely blindsided.

You might also want to consider that several non-chinese automakers are
getting involved in joint ventures with chinese car companies. Finally
consider how far china has come in producing quality products in a
short time. Guess where most pc's are made now including the
"Japanese" names...

I'm sure that Toyota is not whistling in the dark.


wrote:
> Chinacarforums wrote:
> > i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
> > even working on lithium fueled cars...
> >
> > http://www.chinacarforums.com
>
> Nonsense. China's industrial and technological bases are far too
> primitive compared to those of the major car-building nations, USA,
> Japan, Germany, and Korea, and there won't be a competitive
> Chinese-designed car for at least 10-20 years. The best evidence for
> this is with Japan and Korea, which were far more developed when they
> started to sell cars in the US.than China is now. Korea has been
> selling cars in the US for 20 years, but only very recently has their
> reliability become decent, and their designs are still a bit rough,
> although GM and Ford have that problem as well. Japan, despite being
> by far the oldest industrial nation in the Far East and the only one
> with car makers that have been in business since before WWII, couldn't
> compete against US cars until the late 1970s, and then only in small
> cars, and the late 1980s or early 1990s for larger cars. Also Japan is
> a society that values perfection, quality, and fraternity probably more
> than any other one except perhaps Germany, and this greatly helped with
> their success.

y_p_w > wrote in news:x2wdg.7858$y4.511
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

>
>
> Kruse wrote:
>> Chinacarforums wrote:
>>
>>>i think chinese cars will surpass everyone in a few years, they are
>>>even working on lithium fueled cars...
>>
>>
>> The Chevy Equinox builds their engines over in China. I'm sure all the
>> engine building secrets that GM has is presently being stolen by the
>> Chinese so, yea, the Chinese
>> will catch up REAL quick.
>
> It doesn't really take that much. You've got foreign students
> attending grad schools in the US and working in engineering jobs
> in the US. Much of the reason why other countries catch up is
> because their citizens gain expertise. They also provide a
> talent that helps the US economy; it works both ways.
>
> Reverse engineering has been going on nearly forever. The
> Chinese aren't the first and probably won't be the last.
>
>> It's amazing that they illegally copy all of our software and movies,
>> we look the other way at all the political prisoners they have, they
>> will not get a money standard like other nations have and yet all that
>> is fine and dandy with the rest of the world, especially the U.S.



>
> I don't particularly like it. But what can you do?

this is brain dead simple. QUIT trading with our enemy. They are trying
to defeat us just as they have since comuminsm began there. They have
nothing we can not live with out. You do not help your enemy defeat you,
unless you have empty headed gov. that refuses to honor the constitution.
But we get what we vote for. KB




>
> I'm not all that impressed with Chinese manufacturered or
> assembled goods. I've visted China, and the indigenous
> designs typically aren't that good. Right now I'm typing
> on an Apple iBook assembled in China. While the electronics
> and mechanicals (much made in other parts of Asia) are reliable
> enough, the fit and finish of the case is noticeably inferior
> to an older model made in Taiwan.
>
> The real question is whether or not China will be able to
> make cars suitable for export without the design and
> guidance from VW or GM. When I was there, the preference
> was for "foreign" makes that were perceived to be head and
> shoulders better than locally designed vehicles.
>



--
Thunder Snake #9
"Protect" your rights or "lose" them.

It doesn't even take reverse engineering. Automotive engineering, like
most branches of engineering, has various professional societies. SAE
is a big one. Good engineers in various countries join other country's
societies. While some stuff is considered proprietary by companies,
they have to fight off a desire for their engineers to publish their
work. Most of the preliminary R&D gets reported in engineering
procedings. Other branches of engineering, such as EE do likewise, so
battery and control work is knowledgably spread around the world rapidly.

Even in aviation, where there is some government support for R&D for
military reasons, US is rapidly losing its technological edge. US
public in general does not value science and engineering like it once
did. US population all wants to be rock stars or financial bigshots.


y_p_w wrote:

> Reverse engineering has been going on nearly forever. The
> Chinese aren't the first and probably won't be the last.
>

Kevin Bottorff wrote:
> y_p_w > wrote in news:x2wdg.7858$y4.511
> >> It's amazing that they illegally copy all of our software and movies,
> >> we look the other way at all the political prisoners they have, they
> >> will not get a money standard like other nations have and yet all that
> >> is fine and dandy with the rest of the world, especially the U.S.
> >
> > I don't particularly like it. But what can you do?
>
> this is brain dead simple. QUIT trading with our enemy. They are trying
> to defeat us just as they have since comuminsm began there. They have
> nothing we can not live with out. You do not help your enemy defeat you,
> unless you have empty headed gov. that refuses to honor the constitution.
> But we get what we vote for. KB

Easier said than done. International trade is the reality. We could
talk till we're blue in the face about "trading with the enemy". We
buy much of our oil from countries where a vocal segment of the
population loathe the West for any number of ideological reasons.

Trying to keep everyday technologies locked up is near impossible.
There's plenty of worldwide automotive expertise that's already trading
with China. I don't think they'll figure out how to produce superior
indigenous automotive designs within a few years, but keeping
American companies out of China isn't going to make a difference.
Remember the British tried to keep their cotton weaving technology
out of American hands, and it took Samuel Slater to jumpstart
cotton weaving production in the United States.

My honest answer to the original poster is that I don't think the
Chinese are going to be the leaders in automotive innovation any
time soon. In many ways they're going to need a serious attitude
adjustment about how the treat their workers and how it affects
worker productivity. I understand that many Chinese industries don't
train their employees to operate more than one or two types of
equipment. Sometimes it's a mistrust that they might take their
skills elsewhere if they know too much.

Personally I think the Koreans might approach the higher quality
levels first. Some of the offerings from Hyundai are pretty darn
good already.