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Starter solenoid current?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 2nd 11, 08:45 AM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Bernd Felsche[_2_]
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Posts: 129
Default Starter solenoid current?

Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
easily.

I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
(not the starter motor) at terminal 50.

It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.

So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
solenoid.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
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  #2  
Old November 2nd 11, 09:27 AM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Scotty[_2_]
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Posts: 13
Default Starter solenoid current?



"Bernd Felsche" wrote in message
...

Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
easily.

I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
(not the starter motor) at terminal 50.

It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.

So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
solenoid.

Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
and postings | HL Mencken
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><>

Use a multimeter if you have one. The size is usually for volt drop. The
actual solenoid Id imagine wouldn't draw much at all.
I'd take a wild guess at 7 or 8 amps for modern cars. the cables that size
as when cranking it needs the full voltage other wise it will do what you
call Motor Boating.
that is where the voltage drops too low to maintain the solenoid and it
drops out during cranking. As your still holding the key to the start
position it will re-engage as the voltage increases now the starter isn't
engaged, it keeps doing this until either a contact burns out or usually the
person trying to get to work takes the bus. (or its jump started of course)

Do you know that clicking sound when ya batteries very flat? that's it.


  #3  
Old November 2nd 11, 10:44 AM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Clocky[_2_]
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Posts: 3
Default Starter solenoid current?


"Bernd Felsche" > wrote in message
...
> Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
> easily.
>
> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>
> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>
> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
> solenoid.


Why not put an ammeter in series?






  #4  
Old November 2nd 11, 01:27 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
PeterD
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Posts: 874
Default Starter solenoid current?

On 11/2/2011 3:45 AM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
> Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
> easily.
>
> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>
> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>
> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
> solenoid.


I believe you will find there is a relay in the circuit. What year Golf
is it? BTW, yes, it is a lot of current--more than one might expect.

--
I'm never going to grow up.
  #5  
Old November 2nd 11, 03:29 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Bernd Felsche[_2_]
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Posts: 129
Default Starter solenoid current?

atec77 > wrote:
>On 2/11/2011 5:45 PM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
>> Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
>> easily.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
>> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>>
>> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
>> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
>> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>>
>> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
>> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
>> solenoid.

>Is it direct activation or relay switched ?


Direct. 4mm wire from the battery to the switch and all the way back
to the strater - via a couple of connections through the central
electrics backplane. Madness.

> usually a solenoid like that draws upwards of 8 or 10 amps possibly
>more in a foulcan , doesn't the solenoid have to drive the engagement
>mechanism?


It has to start. Once it gets going, the contacts of the solenoid
close and the tarter current runs a holding coil in parallel with
the one powered through the key switch.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
  #6  
Old November 2nd 11, 03:31 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Bernd Felsche[_2_]
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Posts: 129
Default Starter solenoid current?

"Clocky" > wrote:
>"Bernd Felsche" wrote


>> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
>> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>>
>> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
>> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
>> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>>
>> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
>> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
>> solenoid.


>Why not put an ammeter in series?


Because it could fry the poor thing ...
Most multimeters maxo ut at 10 Amps.
I suspect that it could be 30A, if not more.
Bosch book says 30 to 70A, depending on the size of the starter.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
  #7  
Old November 2nd 11, 03:35 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Bernd Felsche[_2_]
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Posts: 129
Default Starter solenoid current?

PeterD > wrote:

>On 11/2/2011 3:45 AM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
>> Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
>> easily.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
>> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>>
>> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
>> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
>> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>>
>> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
>> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
>> solenoid.


>I believe you will find there is a relay in the circuit. What year
>Golf is it? BTW, yes, it is a lot of current--more than one might
>expect.


1990. There's 4mm wiring into and out of the ignition switch when I
last had that part of the sah and steering column uncovered.

Current flow diagrams (two sources) draw it as direct-wired.
No relay.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
  #8  
Old November 2nd 11, 04:26 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
PeterD
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Posts: 874
Default Starter solenoid current?

On 11/2/2011 8:36 AM, Scotty wrote:

> I think that you are thinking of the starter motor current which can
> easily reach 300amps. He is asking about the current draw of the actual
> solenoid.


No, I'm thinking the solenoid, which does draw more current that most
people realize.

>
> theres two ways of easily testing the actual draw. Use an ammeter in
> series (or clamp style) and test it, or use an ohmmeter to see what the
> resistive load is and work it out that way @ 12v.
>


An ohmmeter would be less accurate due to the lower resistance, and
would not provide a good indication of shorted turns (assuming that is
his problem...) The best testing tool is a DC clampon meter, a tool that
I find invaluable when diagnosing starter problems.

>



--
I'm never going to grow up.
  #9  
Old November 2nd 11, 05:33 PM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
Clocky[_2_]
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Posts: 3
Default Starter solenoid current?


"Bernd Felsche" > wrote in message
...
> PeterD > wrote:
>
>>On 11/2/2011 3:45 AM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
>>> Something I don't know ... and can't seem to find out all that
>>> easily.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
>>> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>>>
>>> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
>>> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
>>> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>>>
>>> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
>>> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
>>> solenoid.

>
>>I believe you will find there is a relay in the circuit. What year
>>Golf is it? BTW, yes, it is a lot of current--more than one might
>>expect.

>
> 1990. There's 4mm wiring into and out of the ignition switch when I
> last had that part of the sah and steering column uncovered.
>
> Current flow diagrams (two sources) draw it as direct-wired.
> No relay.


That would explain the 4mm.


  #10  
Old November 3rd 11, 12:19 AM posted to aus.cars,rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
D Walford
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Posts: 15
Default Starter solenoid current?

On 03/11/2011 1:31 AM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
> > wrote:
>> "Bernd Felsche" wrote

>
>>> I'm trying to figure out the current draw by the starter solenoid,
>>> (not the starter motor) at terminal 50.
>>>
>>> It's powered through the ignition switch in the Golf GTI but the 4mm
>>> wiring has me baffled. That's too much current to go through a
>>> little ignition switch if the wire is sized for current capacity.
>>>
>>> So I assume it's sized to avoid voltage drop, which leaves me none
>>> the wiser regarding the current actually drawn by the starter
>>> solenoid.

>
>> Why not put an ammeter in series?

>
> Because it could fry the poor thing ...
> Most multimeters maxo ut at 10 Amps.
> I suspect that it could be 30A, if not more.
> Bosch book says 30 to 70A, depending on the size of the starter.


That's a hell of a current to be going through the switch, it would be
very unusual for there not to be a relay?


Daryl
 




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